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Topic: [General] Bitcoin Wallets - Which, what, why? - page 7. (Read 138940 times)

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
but anyway, I was wondering why Specter is not in your list.. when you mention Sparrow and Electrum.. what about Specter?  Do they have issues to cause them to fall off of your list,  or you have not looked into Specter? 
I have not used Specter before, the reason I do not talk much about it on the forum. Electrum, Sparrow, Specter and Bluewallet are open source wallets.

I will try and download Specter and see how it is. I think it is desktop only wallet too. If you want to make transaction on it, there is possibility that the fee can be customized after clicking on advanced. It supoort replace-by-fee and coin control. It is much like Sparrow and Electrum in features and I think it would be one of the best bitcoin wallet. It has the necessary features and it is open source.
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 10143
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
For online wallets:
 They are used for low amount of coins. The ones I can recommend you are Electrum, Sparrow and Bluewallet. Sparrow only has desktop versions. Mobile Electrum do not have coin control and fee customization, but it has fee slider which is not accurate like customizing the fee. Bluewallet wallet is not having Windows and Linux OS.

Thanks for your outline.

Within this category of online wallets, I don't really claim to know very much about the comparisons of these, even though I have been using Bluewallet for a bit over a year.. and was glad to be able to have both lightning and the Blue wallet thorugh the same interface (until they took their own lightning node out of the loop, so now my lightning wallets are currently Phoenix and Breez).. so I still use Bluewallet for their onchain wallet.. and I suppose it is a replacement for some of the other centralized wallets that I had been using.. which maybe I should not even mention the name..but I was using a couple of different ones,

but anyway, I was wondering why Specter is not in your list.. when you mention Sparrow and Electrum.. what about Specter?  Do they have issues to cause them to fall off of your list,  or you have not looked into Specter?  

I downloaded both Specter and Sparrow, but I have not used either of them.

I had been considering whether I should look further into comparing Sparrow and Specter in terms of hooking it up to a Bitcoin Core node, which I ONLY recently started running BC on a couple of computers.. even though I don't exactly know what Bitcoin Core is doing beyond taking up 1/2 TB of space on each of the computers and showing me how many peers (usually between 10 and 30) are connected to each of these two nodes, but it seems that a lot of members in the forum are not even mentioning Specter anymore, but I frequently see Sparrow mentioned and praised.. while suggesting that there are "technical" aspects with any of these wallets.  

I also have not used Electrum (besides downloading it), even though I know it is quite popular due to its being open source and having had been around for a long time.

By the way.. I do use a Trezor one (since 2017) and a Trezor Model T (since about 2019?) .. and I had used Ledger in 2017.. but I got really frustrated with it.. and even seeming bugs, so I just stopped even trying to use the Ledger.. maybe I used it for around a year before I just couldn't be bothered screwing around with it.. and I did not really like the idea that they were not open source.. even though people frequently applauded them for their secure element.. but of course their reputation got a bit worse with their dancing around firmware updates and then even the discussions that caused questions about how much anyone should have had been trusting them in the first place.

 I have tended to like Trezor because of its being open source.. and even using common hardware.. even though surely it does seem that there might be some newer hardware devices that might be better, as you mentioned passport. .and yeah, I don't like the idea of Trezor's mixing service with Wasabi or their teaming up with that Wasabi service.. so I hope that they are not otherwise compromised since I am aware of some of the concerns of the Wasabi coordinators (or whatever they are called)... so yeah, if I were to end up using Electrum, Sparrow or Specter, then I would want to be able to connect my Trezor to my Bitcoin Core Node through one or more of those interfaces, whether it would be Electrum, Sparrow and/or Spector.. not that I am exactly sure about how to do any of that hooking up; kinds of things, yet.. just besides thinking about the possibility of using my Trezors in that kind of a way... or any other hardware wallet that I might get in the future.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
For my bitcoin holdings, I will go for Electrum bitcoin wallets. I feel it is the safest way for holding.
Yes, if you use it offline. But if it is online, it is vulnerable like other reputed open source wallets. Online wallets are more vulnerable to hack, only recommend for low amount of coins.
newbie
Activity: 92
Merit: 0
I came through this thread, when i am searching for recommended wallets to store coins. Since it was written a while back, I felt that some updated details are required. If any one can suggest latest recommended wallets to store coins for long term and short term holding, It would be a great help for me.
It is not about long term or short term. If you have huge amount, use offline wallet. Offline wallets are safer and are the most secure. Their keys are generated offline, unlike online wallets which their keys are generated online.

For offline wallets:
Electrum cold storage wallet: https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

For a paper wallet, you can use airgapped device for it too, just like Electrum cold storage. Airgapped devices are secure because no internet connection, no Bluetooth or WiFi card as you would have removed them. The difference is that you will make it a paper wallet after you backup the seed phrase in like two or three different locations and deleted the wallet from the airgapped device.

Or you can buy a hardware wallet. The most recommended for now is Passport. Others may be good for you but I will not recommend Ledger Nano at all. Also I will not recommend close source hardware wallets, like Safepal. The one I can recommend is Passport, it is a bitcoin only wallet.

Other hardware wallets that I can recommend as they support multicoins and their cons:

Trezor. With the help of Wasabi, they make coinjoin possible, but Wasabi is censoring bitcoin transaction and also spying. People have preferred to use Whirlpool from Sparrow wallet or Samourai wallet from coinjoin. Or Jointmarket if you run your own node.

Bitbox02. But because of AOPP, bitcoin community do not support such wallet again. Read more about AOPP online. If you are not from Switzerland, you are not affected. I will not support such wallet for them and their government in Switzerland for invading their citizens privacy.

I still prefer Trezor, but I will advice you not to use its coinjoin.

For online wallets:
 They are used for low amount of coins. The ones I can recommend you are Electrum, Sparrow and Bluewallet. Sparrow only has desktop versions. Mobile Electrum do not have coin control and fee customization, but it has fee slider which is not accurate like customizing the fee. Bluewallet wallet is not having Windows and Linux OS.

I greatly appreciate your valuable insights and I'm thrilled to have your assistance.
For my bitcoin holdings, I will go for Electrum bitcoin wallets. I feel it is the safest way for holding.
For other coins, I already have safepal hardware wallet that you are not recommanding. Therefore I will conduct further research about its security measures.
Trezor Model T is really attractive. I will take the time to seek out others feedback before making a final decision.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
I came through this thread, when i am searching for recommended wallets to store coins. Since it was written a while back, I felt that some updated details are required. If any one can suggest latest recommended wallets to store coins for long term and short term holding, It would be a great help for me.
It is not about long term or short term. If you have huge amount, use offline wallet. Offline wallets are safer and are the most secure. Their keys are generated offline, unlike online wallets which their keys are generated online.

For offline wallets:
Electrum cold storage wallet: https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

For a paper wallet, you can use airgapped device for it too, just like Electrum cold storage. Airgapped devices are secure because no internet connection, no Bluetooth or WiFi card as you would have removed them. The difference is that you will make it a paper wallet after you backup the seed phrase in like two or three different locations and deleted the wallet from the airgapped device.

Or you can buy a hardware wallet. The most recommended for now is Passport. Others may be good for you but I will not recommend Ledger Nano at all. Also I will not recommend close source hardware wallets, like Safepal. The one I can recommend is Passport, it is a bitcoin only wallet.

Other hardware wallets that I can recommend as they support multicoins and their cons:

Trezor. With the help of Wasabi, they make coinjoin possible, but Wasabi is censoring bitcoin transaction and also spying. People have preferred to use Whirlpool from Sparrow wallet or Samourai wallet from coinjoin. Or Jointmarket if you run your own node.

Bitbox02. But because of AOPP, bitcoin community do not support such wallet again. Read more about AOPP online. If you are not from Switzerland, you are not affected. I will not support such wallet for them and their government in Switzerland for invading their citizens privacy.

I still prefer Trezor, but I will advice you not to use its coinjoin.

For online wallets:
 They are used for low amount of coins. The ones I can recommend you are Electrum, Sparrow and Bluewallet. Sparrow only has desktop versions. Mobile Electrum do not have coin control and fee customization, but it has fee slider which is not accurate like customizing the fee. Bluewallet wallet is not having Windows and Linux OS.
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 10143
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
I came through this thread, when i am searching for recommended wallets to store coins. Since it was written a while back, I felt that some updated details are required. If any one can suggest latest recommended wallets to store coins for long term and short term holding, It would be a great help for me.

Did you actually read the thread?

How about other related threads?

As far as I can see this thread is active, even though OP is from 2016 and surely Lauda has not been around the forum for a few years.. but still maybe you should describe which aspects of OP or other parts of the thread that you want to know about?  Yes, maybe you do not need to read the whole thread.. but still.

How about describing efforts that you made to research into the topic, and also providing some details regarding how much experience you have in regards to buying BTC and the various ways that you might store it - including some ideas regarding how much you might want to store in various places (of course, you should not be giving up information regarding your own BTC holdings, but just to give some ideas regarding your own situation)... and maybe some guys might want to delve into such vague and incomplete scenarios, even though you seemed to have had done little to no actual work - which appears that you might not be a serious poster.. or at least not someone that anyone here should take seriously.. or maybe I am already treating you too seriously by actually responding.
newbie
Activity: 92
Merit: 0
I came through this thread, when i am searching for recommended wallets to store coins. Since it was written a while back, I felt that some updated details are required. If any one can suggest latest recommended wallets to store coins for long term and short term holding, It would be a great help for me.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 1298
Cashback 15%


I concur with viewpoint you have shared and would like to contribute a few of my own observations pertaining to both hardware and Android wallets.

Fot those who are technically adept and less concerned with company policies related to product licensing, the recent offerings from Canadian maker, Coinkite, might be an appealing option. Their latest model, ColdCard MK4, is currently available. However in the next few quarters one can expect the release of more advanced device, namely ColsCard Q1. This new model is designed to facilitate communication via QR code.

On the other hand, for those who place importance on a company's licencing policy and seek a user-friendly device with top-tier security, Passport 2 developed by Foundation would be an ideal choice. Personally, my preference aligns with Passport2.

As to Android wallets. While not discounting your choices, I would steer users towards another opt - AirGap Vault.   
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
how do you consider the use of paper wallets presently ? how to generate securely ?
The best way I consider for now is the use of open source wallets like Electrum which can run offline on an airgapped device (a device that its Bluetooth and WiFi cardhas been removed) in which the OS is reinstall to make your certain that it has no malware. Some people generate paper wallet like this, delete the wallet on the device and use it as a paper wallet as they backup the wallet seed phrase and some addresses on paper.

For your coin protection, you can make use of passphrase (extended word) along with the seed phrase which will generate you different keys and addresses which will protect your wallet like BIP38 passphrase encryption.
hero member
Activity: 1918
Merit: 535
Talking about BTC wallets, how can I create one in my android.
Know that the most secure wallets are properly generated paper wallet, wallet on airgapped devices and reputed hardware wallets which are cold storage wallets. In short, offline or cold wallets are mostly secured.

Some people may validly argue that not all hardware wallets are cold wallets as users use it to make transactions, and it can also depend on how they are used to make transactions.

Online or hot wallets are not that safe, do not use online wallets to hold huge amount of money. Use cold wallets. For simplicity, you can use a hardware wallet.

The two Android wallets that I am using are Electrum and Bluewallet.

wise advice.
how do you consider the use of paper wallets presently ? how to generate securely ?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
Talking about BTC wallets, how can I create one in my android.
Know that the most secure wallets are properly generated paper wallet, wallet on airgapped devices and reputed hardware wallets which are cold storage wallets. In short, offline or cold wallets are mostly secured.

Some people may validly argue that not all hardware wallets are cold wallets as users use it to make transactions, and it can also depend on how they are used to make transactions.

Online or hot wallets are not that safe, do not use online wallets to hold huge amount of money. Use cold wallets. For simplicity, you can use a hardware wallet.

The two Android wallets that I am using are Electrum and Bluewallet.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1888
Talking about BTC wallets, how can I create one in my android.

Just download one. You can use Mycellium wallet or Electrum for example. They are easy to download and install.
newbie
Activity: 27
Merit: 1
Talking about BTC wallets, how can I create one in my android.
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
For me LN wallets is best Phoenix. I am begginer with LN, Zap and others more complicated. The most difficult part was transferring BTC from the regular network to the Lightning Network (LN). Even with Phoenix, it was quite simple.
hero member
Activity: 501
Merit: 3855
It's no wonder that both SFR10 and Charles-Tim found zhtommyk's post confusing, because it was copied from a 2019 post by another member (joniboini).

I was a little lazy and reported the post earlier but without first documenting it in the plagiarism reporting thread, like I should have. Now I see that the post has been deleted but the user has not been nuked. Next time, I'll do it properly.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
That possible. The reason is that your text might never enter the mempool. the network is busy and never get free. To put it simply, your transaction might never get processed at all because the average fees are always higher than your TX Fees. So, you'll never be able to send your things with $1 when the average fees are $5. that continues forever.
Where did you hear that from? I have been reading on the news since like 5 months ago, how bitcoin transaction fee is low, example is this one week old news:

Average Bitcoin transaction fee drops under $1 as network difficulty recovers

SFR10 has given you the appropriate reply, bitcoin transaction fee is very low, cost far less than $1 if using a noncustodial wallet with good fee estimation, check the mempool link he posted above to see how low bitcoin transaction is, or you can click on the link below.

https://mempool.space

In addition to that, it looks like you've been using a wallet that has limited capabilities in choosing the Tx fee.
What I am thinking is that he may be using a custodial wallet or a custodial exchange, be it any of the two, they charges for withdrawal fee which is transaction fee plus additional fee the custodial wallet charges from users, unlike noncustodial wallet that charges only for the transaction fee which are rewarded to miners.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3406
Crypto Swap Exchange
That possible. The reason is that your text might never enter the mempool. the network is busy and never get free. To put it simply, your transaction might never get processed at all because the average fees are always higher than your TX Fees. So, you'll never be able to send your things with $1 when the average fees are $5. that continues forever.
I'm not sure to who you're responding in this post, but it has a lot of inaccurate information! It seems that you think there's a continuous and static amount of traffic at its maximum capacity, but that's not the case [check "this" website].
- In addition to that, it looks like you've been using a wallet that has limited capabilities in choosing the Tx fee.
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 10143
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
You don’t know how I handle technical issues, since you are practically nonexistent in the technical forum.
I'm afraid that this particular topic is an example of your posting technique, which I find non newbie-friendly. Almost all of your threads while perhaps educative, are hard to grasp. (What does this have to do with suchmoon?)

It is fundamentally a technical thread, delivered at a newbie level.  Treating it otherwise is to invite misinformation.
Then submit another, better thread and we're all going to judge if it's newbie-friendly enough with technical fundamentals. It shouldn't take you more than the time it took to write these 5 bedsheet-long posts.

I tend to agree on this point too.  I do believe that nullius has had an ability to raise a lot of good points and even to frame matters in interesting ways, but surely his posts have not tended to be newbie-friendly as a whole. but that would not mean that he is not capable of maintaining a consistent streak of newbie-friendliness but surely many of us (including yours truly) have our doubts..  

I also have my doubts about nullius's ability to consistently refrain from allowing matters to become personal - when they should attempt to be topic-focused - especially if he is wanting to either take over this thread or to have his (hypothetical at the moment) thread to get promoted to pinned status or to take the place of this thread that is already in pinned status (I am not claiming to be an expert about pin status, either, since I just realized what the term means - even though I did realize that there were some threads that fit such a descriptive status).

Of course, we know that theymos has the ability to change the ownership of a thread, but that does not even seem like the most obvious way forward in this case - unless he were to see that a member (who would end up taking over ownership) already has a track record of sustaining the basic kind of information in a thread like this, and that surely would be up to theymos to conclude if he believes that nullius has such abilities (likely based on past posting conduct - and personally, I am having my doubts that theymos would reasonably be able to come to such conclusion - or even if he would want to get into making that kind of a determination), so in that regard, the creating of a similar thread that links back to this one or even updates some of the contents of its posts might substantiate the pinning of such thread...

so in that regard, if the similarly substantive replacement thread ends up doing a good job of equally (and likely better) presenting the same information, then the thread ends up speaking for itself in terms of whether it is newbie-friendly (and focused enough) - rather than potentially taking chances with the changing of ownership of an existing thread, and really, I wonder how common change of ownership on the forum happens to be anyhow?  Maybe the WO thread is the ONLY example, and there was a bit of a unique circumstance with the change of ownership with that thread in terms of both how it had become a kind of "one-stop-shopping" information sharing  (troll-box) point on the forum, and the seemingly widespread preferences (at the time of the ownership change - about 4 years ago?) in keeping it going (as a kind of forum chat area) - including that WO thread having some of the rules of that thread to be expressedly unique from other overall forum thread rules.
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 6415
Farewell, Leo
You don’t know how I handle technical issues, since you are practically nonexistent in the technical forum.
I'm afraid that this particular topic is an example of your posting technique, which I find non newbie-friendly. Almost all of your threads while perhaps educative, are hard to grasp. (What does this have to do with suchmoon?)

It is fundamentally a technical thread, delivered at a newbie level.  Treating it otherwise is to invite misinformation.
Then submit another, better thread and we're all going to judge if it's newbie-friendly enough with technical fundamentals. It shouldn't take you more than the time it took to write these 5 bedsheet-long posts.
copper member
Activity: 630
Merit: 2610
If you don’t do PGP, you don’t do crypto!
Insofar as is relevant here, my “style” is faithfully to continue applying Lauda’s style.  I offer hereby to serve as an executive editor, not to rewrite the thread from scratch.  I have no desire to create my own wallets thread; frankly, I would rather spend the time writing my own wallet.  I have been intending that for awhile.
I think you and suchmoon are right, what I understood from suchmoon post is that you can come up with a new thread about 'bitcoin wallet for newbies', the rest is left to you, you can do whatever you like, if you want to edit the thread, but distinctly referenced it to the original work of Lauda with the link available on the new topic that you created, I think you have nothing to be worried about. I may not be totally right, but I think you can send PM to theymos about this before any edition to give you the conditions to meet before the thread will be eligible to be pinned.

I think if you have done this before without any notice until you created a new topic about it would be better, distinctly referencing it and stating that it is the original work of Lauda will make it credible if your work is actually credible. If it deserves to be pinned, it would be pinned.

It occurred to me that this should be resolved administratively.


My point exactly. Instead of telling us how well you'd do it, you could have been halfway through creating a new thread and actually showing us how you'd do it.

You missed the point.  I want to keep and preserve something that has served the community well for years.  I do not want to throw it out and replace it.  Creating a new thread would be counterproductive to what I seek to achieve.

With that being said, perhaps I may make a new thread if there seems to be too much of a danger that this thread will be replaced rather than preserved.  Or perhaps not:  Although I care about the existence of a good wallets thread, the desire to preserve Lauda’s thread is what decisively motivates me to undertake a commitment that I take very seriously.  I haven’t decided, and I hope that I won’t need to.

You clearly just want to get rid of this thread.  Bury it.  Slide it away.

My suggestion is to create a better replacement thread and then ask moderators to unpin this one. Calling it "burying" is disingenuous to say the least.

By what disingenuous pretzel-logic does replacing and unpinning the thread not result in burying it?

Unpinning it means letting it slide into oblivion, with its 99% still-good information that only needs to be maintained against obsolescence.

You don’t know how I handle technical issues, since you are practically nonexistent in the technical forum.

This is a newbie board.

This is a thread where technical competence is required to collate and edit the information in OP.  It is fundamentally a technical thread, delivered at a newbie level.  Treating it otherwise is to invite misinformation.

It's a thread. About wallets. Your irrational emotional attachment to a long-gone forum member makes no sense here.

I have never seen such an overtly psychopathic statement anywhere on this forum.  You are celebrating psychopathy!

Some of us believe that people matter.  Some of us are loyal to our friends.  Some of us do not treat those who were kind to us as disposable things, to use and to throw away.

Yes, some of us have emotional attachments to human beings.  When you contemn that as “irrational”, you let your mask slip.  Classic psychopathy.



With that, for the time being, I will ignore further replies here unless something new and interesting arises.  This is a waste of time, not constructive action.  Lauda’s thread is probably the wrong place for this discussion, anyway—especially since she’s not here to delete anything that she deems not a useful addition to her wallets thread.  She always did that, without hesitation and without apology.
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