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Topic: Gigamining / Teramining - page 91. (Read 216450 times)

vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
September 08, 2012, 09:39:15 PM
So my question is this, what is the psychological effect that is causing people to sell instead of buy? Gigamining pays outstaning dividends (though the yield is dropping slowly) so why aren't people snapping it up like candy? The price is based on demand, not on difficulty, correct?

Hi tmfp143,

Pirateat40 not paying back his lenders in a timely fashion is causing a shift of perception in the entire BTC economy. Those who once felt more secure purchasing assets or lending bitcoins are now becoming more paranoid and are wanting to keep those same bitcoins back in their possession. Bitcoins have also appreciated a great deal in price so I believe these things combined are leading to a credit squeeze. The result is people wanting to sell their Gigamining bonds, even at a loss, to secure the funds in their wallet.

I do believe this is a temporary effect but it remains to be seen how long it will last or how deep it will be.

Best,
gigavps
newbie
Activity: 35
Merit: 0
September 08, 2012, 08:37:38 PM
t
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
September 08, 2012, 04:46:51 PM
Im pretty sure they are still grossly overpriced today, so anyone who believes otherwise, lend me your bond, so I can short it. I will give you a nice bonus on your dividends if you let me borrow it for 3-6 months. PM me for details."

So one would get back his own bonds even more devalued after your 'cure'?
Thanks for another losing proposition.

They  will get the bonds back and all dividends plus a bonus. Its clearly better than just keeping the bond. Should be a no brainer for anyone who thinks these bonds are reasonably priced.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
September 08, 2012, 04:43:58 PM
Im pretty sure they are still grossly overpriced today, so anyone who believes otherwise, lend me your bond, so I can short it. I will give you a nice bonus on your dividends if you let me borrow it for 3-6 months. PM me for details."

So one would get back his own bonds even more devalued after your 'cure'?
Thanks for another losing proposition.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
September 08, 2012, 04:34:43 PM
I have been saying for almost half a year they are terribly overpriced. Thats whats wrong with them.

If you think they are so terribly overpriced then why not borrow some and short them? At least put some money where your opinion is.

Ive been doing just that, and if you read what I wrote, Im still doing it: "
Quote
Im pretty sure they are still grossly overpriced today, so anyone who believes otherwise, lend me your bond, so I can short it. I will give you a nice bonus on your dividends if you let me borrow it for 3-6 months. PM me for details.
"
legendary
Activity: 1031
Merit: 1000
September 08, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
I have been saying for almost half a year they are terribly overpriced. Thats whats wrong with them.

If you think they are so terribly overpriced then why not borrow some and short them? At least put some money where your opinion is.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
September 08, 2012, 04:25:25 PM
So, in essence, you are saying that mining bonds in general are a bad idea?

Fixed Mhs/s bonds are

If so, should I even offer a paid upgrade? Am I only furthering the detriment of possible holders of the bonds?

Maybe you could even consider a free continuous upgrade, given that Gigamining has not been the best paying mining bond around from some time.
Someone (like FPGAMINING) are moving towards a mixed reward (where a variable part of income get reinvested in capital upgrades -therefore increasing Mhs per bond- and part distributed as dividends). This kind of solution seems the best IMHO.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
September 08, 2012, 04:18:33 PM
So, in essence, you are saying that mining bonds in general are a bad idea?

Why do you keep posting strawman arguments Giga? Can you not read? English is my 3rd language, so perhaps I do not make myself clear? I have been saying for almost half a year they are terribly overpriced. Thats whats wrong with them.

No.

Why not?
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
September 08, 2012, 04:12:43 PM
Compared to buying or holding fixed MH mining bonds, clearly buying or holding BTC is definitely the smarter choice.

So, in essence, you are saying that mining bonds in general are a bad idea? If so, should I even offer a paid upgrade? Am I only furthering the detriment of possible holders of the bonds?

If you can short these bonds, even better. Will you lend me some of yours?

No.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
September 08, 2012, 04:09:34 PM

Hi P4man,

 It seems to me that more often than not, you are nay saying mining bonds,

True,  Ive been saying this for 4 months.  Was I wrong? A quick glance at GLSBE suggests I was not.

Quote
pointing out the problems rather than the solutions.

If you dont buy them, there is no problem and no need for a solution. The only problem I guess is uneducated buyers paying too much, so I try to educate them (and borrow bonds from those who disbelief me).

Quote
Are you recommending that others just buy and hold BTC? Are you recommending a reinvestment strategy?

Compared to buying or holding fixed MH mining bonds, clearly buying or holding BTC is definitely the smarter choice. If you can short these bonds, even better. Will you lend me some of yours?
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
September 08, 2012, 04:02:06 PM
Where did you read me saying anything like that? Ive commended you for it plenty times, but it doesnt change the fact that its almost certainly not going to be nearly enough to offset bond holder losses. Are you recommending people buy and hold your bonds at current market price?

Hi P4man,

 It seems to me that more often than not, you are nay saying mining bonds, pointing out the problems rather than the solutions. Are you recommending that others just buy and hold BTC? Are you recommending a reinvestment strategy?

I am simply asking what your recommended course is for potential readers. What do you see as the solution?

Best regards,
gigavps
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1000
September 08, 2012, 03:44:12 PM
I don't see why fixed Mhash/s bonds get so much shit. You get dividends on a regular basis. You get the choice of what to do with your dividends. If you don't realize that you need to reinvest, just as miners have to reinvest, to stay competitive, you're going to make less and less each difficulty adjustment.

The bonds themselves might be worth less by the time you wish to sell, but the dividends you've received over time (and hopefully reinvested in something) need to go in the calculation of how much value has been created/lost.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
September 08, 2012, 03:10:18 PM
Hi P4man,

Are you recommending that I shouldn't even offer an upgrade?

Thanks,
gigavps

Where did you read me saying anything like that? Ive commended you for it plenty times, but it doesnt change the fact that its almost certainly not going to be nearly enough to offset bond holder losses. Are you recommending people buy and hold your bonds at current market price?
newbie
Activity: 35
Merit: 0
September 08, 2012, 02:45:34 PM
t
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
September 08, 2012, 02:43:13 PM
sr. member
Activity: 259
Merit: 250
September 08, 2012, 02:37:09 PM
Hello!
I manage the BLUECHIP mutual fund on GLBSE. The fund owns 40 shares of GIGAMINING. What is the plan to stem the drastic loss that the share price is taking? I recommend buying back shares. I pray that the plan is not to let the share price keep dropping until it reaches 0. Are there any updates on the ASIC upgrade?

If the price of my stock were dropping this fast, I would be more proactive. I would give my investors more frequent updates to build confidence. I am kind of stuck at the moment. I don't want to dump the shares at a loss, but the lack of information makes it hard to make a decision. I recommend addressing this issue, and doing something to restore investor confidence, if possible. I read the earlier comments about not being willing to discuss personal finances. In my opinion, the bottom line is this: if your company is on the verge of failing, there can be no items that are not up for discussion unless you want the enterprise to fail. If GIGAMINING truly is a venerable enterprise (which I thought it was, that's why I invested in it) then DO SOMETHING. SAY SOMETHING. Don't just sit there and let it drop to zero. Angry

A lot of the responses already cover most of your concerns. When I read your post I sensed a level of panic, and I would like to add two things to be mindful of:

1. A sudden drop in share price is not definitively caused by disruptions to the business process. If a share price falls, the underlying backing will not just shrivel up and die. However, if an underlying backing hits trouble, it is quite likely that the share price will act accordingly.

2. With #1 said; If you subscribe to the ideas of value investing - think of a sudden drop in share price as an 'on sale' opportunity. If you bought a security @ .9 and it falls to .45 and the fundamentals are approximately the same, then the security should appear much more appealing. Many savvy investors will wait for such market occurrences and will gobble up as many cheap shares as they can.

Consider this quote: "Price is what you pay, value is what you get." -Warren Buffett

If you appreciate what I have said, I encourage you and anyone looking to gain an immense amount of knowledge about investing to acquire a copy of "Security Analysis." It was written by Ben Graham in 1934 and the book is still entirely applicable to the markets of today's modern society. The most recent version has a forward by Warren Buffett (one of Ben Grahams students) and commentary by some well respected minds within the economics community. I also recommend "The Intelligent Investor" which was written by Mr. Graham and covers much of the same material but in a less detailed and more easily understandable fashion. Even without any formal schooling in economics, the writings of Ben Graham can take someone a very long way.

*It should be noted, as gigavps said, that GIGAMINING is a bond for a fixed rate of hashing power. With a likely continual increase in difficulty, the ROI will likely decay accordingly. There is a long list of variables to consider before being able to determine what kind of value a share represents. Much of Graham's focus in his writings was on commons stocks and not bonds, as they are two different animals entirely.
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
September 08, 2012, 02:36:09 PM
Okay Gigavps, I know that you are probably very busy, but feel free to respond to this if you have time anytime in the next few days. i am trying to wrap my head around your response. The first thing that I did was to read the Wikipedia article on short selling. Please let me know if I am off base in any of my understand.

Quote
This means mining bonds are effectively short BTC price appreciation.

Quote
From Wikipedia: In finance, short selling (also known as shorting or going short) is the practice of selling borrowed securities or other financial instruments, with the intention of subsequently repurchasing them ("covering") at a lower price.

So if my understanding of the two quotes above is correct, this what you are saying: My goal with Gigamining should be to make a short term profit by betting that I yield more dividends than the price drop in a fixed (short) period of time. I could choose to repeast the process over and over again. So I buy 100 shares at 1BTC /share, make the dividend, sell the 100 shares at 0.95, buy them back again at 0.9, repeat the procces over and over again. Is this basically correct?

It seems to me that the other possibility is to look for a perpetually income by reinvesting all dividends in Gigamining without ever selling hoping that the continued accumulation of shares eventually means a rapid accumulation of a lot of shares that are worth very little, but I will then be receiving a very large weekly dividend payout because the dividend yield will have gone done much more slowly than the share price. Is this a correct analysis?

Hi tmfp143,

Basically, when the BTC/USD price increases, it would be mean you have more buying power in USD things like mining equipment. If your BTC have more purchasing power, it should take less of them to buy 5Mh/s.

Best,
gigavps
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
September 08, 2012, 02:33:23 PM
Gigamining offers you a free upgrade when they get their asics, but a 4x increase (IIRC?)  will do precious little to offset the difficulty explosion you are about to see.

Hi P4man,

Are you recommending that I shouldn't even offer an upgrade?

Thanks,
gigavps
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
September 08, 2012, 02:30:03 PM
So when the value of bitcoin goes up, a single bitcoin can purchase more mining power in USD. This means mining bonds are effectively short BTC price appreciation.

But since fixed Mhs/s mining bonds tend to lose value even against USD (due to difficulty increase etc.), there is nothing they can appreciate against, so they are just a waste of money. (This said from someone who owns several mining bonds from last year and just realized that is better to keep your BTC in a cold wallet and be happy).
newbie
Activity: 35
Merit: 0
September 08, 2012, 02:29:46 PM
t
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