Topic: [GLBSE] Introducing: Bitcoin Syndicate, a new mining op trading publicly! - page 11. (Read 23210 times)

tx id 1a19fe903bf52623df85ef4c80b3ebd0adc39c3b8f23706aaf6585f919e05d47
says that IPO funds were moved from glbse and you write that they go to gox to pay for the cards.
so far so good. you missed .005 glbse fee somewhere.
is the 2ac884cb91edf79f3208964ebee3b78960bf9a35ba8fc1a32c1a3cfd21bed1db source of the error?

talking about this page http://www.btcsyn.com/financial
that is not in line with blockchain. how exactly is the treasurer in the loop ; )

& btw the fees glbse paid to miners for this tx were .008 (ipo funds to syndicate)
& thanks for fixing the expiry date of the loaned mining power from the founding members

Since the decision has been made via poll to work with BFL mining gear at least for the initial batch. This brings the unexpected side effect of possibly adding as much as 12GHash of mining power in the next month. This would essentially end the shareholder loan under the current terms. The original clause was not intended to end the loan so early. It was intended to carry a loan approximately one year. So this motion is to alter that clause to reflect a more reasonable GHash target based on current growth forecasts (50GHash).

The Motion ID is #81 and it will run until Monday Feb 27th 2012

Please log into GLBSE and Vote ASAP.

Motion Text:
BTCSYN Motion: Motion to alter bylaws to increase the MHash limit on the terms of the founder hardware loan. Since we did not forsee the availability of gear with the growth potential that the BFL gear offers, our initial wording would potentially end the founder loan early. This was not the intent of this clause. I would like to re-word this clause to reflect a more realistic number based on current growth forecasts. Based on current forecasts we can reach 50GHash in just under a year. I suggest we re-target the GHash clause in the second bullet point of paragraph 2 section 5.1 of the bylaws to read "The average mining power of hardware fully owned by the Syndicate (measured and averaged over a 30 day period) exceeds 50 GHash/s"

I've reaised a motion based on the decision to use BFL Singles for our initial wave of mining gear. Since there is no benefit to doing large bulk orders (and such orders are actually complicated further by mtgox payment method) I'm raising a motion to purchase an initial 7 BFL Single mining rigs immediately based on the funds available from the IPO so far. Then as the IPO completes, we can use the remaining funds to buy a second batch. This is important I think to get things rolling early. And to avoid possible delays due to high demand. Lastly, having them actually on-order, (and once they arrive) may help kickstart the remainder of the shares to sell quickly, allowing us to bring the IPO to a close, and begin normal operations and dividend payouts.

The motion ID is #80 and will run until tomorrow due to the high priority of this purchase. (Feb 27th 2012).

Please log into GLBSE and vote on the motion ASAP.

Motion Text:
BTCSYN Motion: Motion to purchase 7 Butterfly Labs Single Mining Rigs using capital raised so far from IPO. ($4227 USD at exchange rate at the time or purchase). Purchase will be made via MTGox USD Code. Since there is no volume discount at all offered, there is no benefit to waiting for IPO completion, we should purchase what we can now, to get the miners operating earlier, and increase our throughput now. (and to avoid potentially longer lead times due to high demand)

Not so much constant difficulty as "constant profitability" I'm assuming that the current profitability of bitcoin will be more or less maintained, with a drop of X% (the dropoff in dec) at that time. So if difficulty rises, price will balance it out. (to some degree we can control this by timing any purchases that rely on exchange to be at beneficial times).

Trying to predict the actual rate of increase/fluctuation of difficulty is a bit futile since it seems to have reached a plateau and is now more affected by market situation, public opinion and other factors. (at least for now, I have some ideas on that). Much like the markets, it's dependant on too many "environmental" factors (such as the release of cheap fast mining hardware by a certain company lol).

That's all just my opinion of course, but it's the basis for how I've done those forecasts. (and I'll likely continue to revise them, and leverage some additional tools as I can to hopefully help in making informed decisions going forward).

Does that help?

Quite impressive. Those seem well thought-out. The only thing I cannot find is difficulty estimates. Are you assuming a constant difficulty, and if so, what?

A few people asked if I could post my growth forecasts. Well I've revised them and updated with current data.

They are posted here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aua5nCpbs-RcdEpUeWExN1h2RFZPVWRnZjdMa25UOUE

If anyone wants to take a look.

Note that with the BFL option (even using a Single) at our current rate a 0.25BTC investment in the Syndicate will result in a nearly 600% ROI after 24months. And that's assuming no other sources of revenue, and that we don't have any other "positive" developments (which I fully expect we will).

The BFL Rig options both assume a loan to finance the Rig, since we won't have enough capital from the IPO alone to buy one. This isn't likely to happen right away (unless there is anyone out there who has $6KBTC kicking around) lol... So we'll likely re-visit that option once we've grown a bit.

But it's interesting to see that even with a loan, we can recoup the investment remarkably quickly.

Hope someone finds these interesting.

I've raised a motion after careful review, which reccomends we switch our mining power to P2Pool going forward.

The motion ID is 79, and it will run until Feb 29th 2012.

Please log into GLBSE and vote on the motion

Motion Text:
Motion to switch our mining power over to P2Pool. We think this is beneficial overall, and will result in higher mining profits. It's also inline with our goals as an organization to support Bitcoin and it's success. Please see the implementation plan at http://forum.btcsyn.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18 for further details. This poll cutoff date is Feb 29, 2012

I'm glad you brought this up

You're correct, though we didn't forsee the butterflylabs gear as a possibility when forming the bylaws. I will be raising a motion if we choose to pursue that hardware method (based on the poll being carried out now) to alter the bylaws to increase the GHash limit significantly. The intent was to keep it close to 1 year for the loan, and we'll adjust accordingly to match that. (provided the motion passes, and I assure you as the largest current shareholder I will be voting for this motion, I want to see the syndicate succeed, and I will continue to contribute my hardware to ensure that).

In addition, most of the founding members have stated they intend to continue mining for the syndicate with their GPU rigs (And even spinning up additional GPU rigs not part of the loan and contributing them to the syndicate free of charge) to give things a boost, and ensure success and rapid growth. I know that's not defined in a hard way in the bylaws. But we really do just want this to succeed.

As I said, once the poll completes, if the BFL gear gets chosen as our course of action for the IPO funds, I'll immediately raise a motion to extend the terms of the bylaws to reflect that (based on growth forecasts adjusted to account for the BFL gear in the beginning).

Thanks!

Glasswalker I have a question.

In Bylaws it says founding members loan mining hardware in exchange for shares and an algorithm is described for quantifying the number of shares each one receives. This loan can be interrupted in the following conditions (copy-paste from bylaws):


And calculations for Butterfly Labs solution:

That means that in about 1 month of receiving singles (if this will be the approach voted) founding members can halt their loan and remain with the shares although the initial idea(and calculation for shares) was for the loan to last about 1 year?

Quick Update. I'll be running the poll until 10PM EST tonight for deciding on mining hardware. That leaves approximately 12 hours to get signed up and cast your vote.

Thanks!

I've raised a motion to spend 8BTC of current mining profits to extend our ad for one more week while the IPO completes.

It's Motion ID 77, and it will run until the 26th, (the deadline to renew the ad is the 27th)

Please log into GLBSE and vote on the motion.

The motion text:
Motion to pay another 8BTC from our current mining profits as an operational expense in order to secure another ad slot on bitcointalk.org for 7 more days. Our current ad expires Monday. The current ad has resulted in driving 73 clicks directly to our page from the ad. In addition it drives traffic to the bitcointalk forum thread, which also links to the site (resulting in 380 more overall clicks this week). So at 8BTC for an estimated 250 relevant clicks, I think this advertising is worth it until the IPO completes. This purchase is still pending approval from the treasurer, and even with successful motion will not be completed without treasurer approval.

The numbers in the poll are based on ALL shares being sold (I'm pre-emptively deciding on tech. The reason being we may do a partial order midway through IPO to get the mining going while the remaining IPO completes).

So to do apples to apples, I'm comparing how much we could get (MHash/Watts) for 1700BTC with each option

Also the BFL Gear is 2X more power, not 4X. (FPGA options are 400MHash but 20W, BFL is 800MHash but 80W)

The BFL Singles are less efficient for sure, and aren't sustainable in the long run. But at double the power, for the first batch, that loss in efficiency is acceptable, at the benefit of DOUBLE the performance for the same price. To get us started. That means day one we jump to 18GHash/s instead of 12Ghash/s and that means we can buy more gear each month, growing that much faster.

The BFL Rig boxes are equal in power efficiency to FPGA, and way better price/performance point, but unfortunately we have no way to access a $30K box right now.

I agree longterm I would prefer either:
- A large FPGA setup using Icarus/X6500
- A large FPGA cluster using our own design
- A BFL Rig

As those are the best possible ROI right now (I've calculated full 2 year projections for all options).

But we need to get established and begin our growth cycle first to prove our success. Then we can seek methods to fund a larger investment in more efficient gear (And then resell the BFL Singles once they have been replaced with more efficient gear if we decide that makes sense)

Just my thoughts on the matter though.

Ok, I've done the research on the various mining options. For those of you who are shareholders, PLEASE register on the btcsyn forums, and contact me via the contact form to provide your username and transaction id for your share purchase. So I can grant you shareholder access..

I've posted a poll at http://forum.btcsyn.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13 so that we can vote to decide on the best option for our mining hardware purchase. Please vote ASAP so we can move onto raising a motion for the purchase.

Here is the data I collected (if you are one of these manufacturers, and I got something wrong, let me know! Or if you would like to offer/suggest a better option than what's listed, we're open to that too!)


ZTEX:
210MH/s 9.4W $350 USD (in batches of 10 at a time). $65 in flat rate shipping on whole order
So for our total of 1700BTC (successful IPO) we get:
24 boards = 5.0 GHash/s @ 225 Watt

Icarus:
380MH/s 19.5W $500? USD (in quantity, waiting for accurate quote )
So for our total of 1700BTC we get:
16 boards = 6.0GHash/s @ 312 Watt

X6500:
400MH/s 19.5W? $550 USD (in quantity 10+)
For our total 1700BTC we get:
15 boards = 6.0GHash/s @ 292 Watt?
(Exact per-card wattage unconfirmed)

Butterfly Labs:
832MH/s 80W $599 USD ($34 USD shipping flat on whole order)
So for the 1700BTC we get:
14 units = 11.6GHash/s @ 1120 Watt

Also our share value will likely increase significantly after our IPO is done and our mining gear wave 1 arrives. So now is your chance to get in still at 0.25BTC per share!

Thanks for the link holliday, that helps answer one other question I posed for them (a testimonial from a happy customer).

In followup interestingly enough, butterfly labs contacted me back only moments after posting that previous message. I have gone back and forth a couple times with them, and their answers certainly seem valid. They confirmed they do in fact mean "Bitcoin MHash" not raw SHA256. And that the power usage numbers are because the architecture of their chips is significantly different than conventional FPGA setups.

I'm negotiating with them now to confirm payment options (right now they don't accept payment via bitcoin which is a deal breaker for the syndicate, but they mentioned mtgox codes which may work for us).

If this is an option it will be considered alongside all other options for our first expansion wave. And whichever gives us the largest number of MHash/s for our BTC investment will likely be the way we go (based on voting of course).

So far this looks like it's superior to FPGA options. I'm impressed, I didn't expect that to come around so quickly... Well as always, we aren't tied to a single tech, our goals are to seek out the best means to grow, so we'll evaluate these seriously.

Wow, I gave you a great opportunity there to demonstrate you are willing to take the high road, and leave quietly, and you not only failed to take it, but you basically took the opposite approach.

Anyway, To quickly answer your question (And not dignify your other comments with a response).

Our MHash/BTC is approximately 4 right now. That will increase rapidly each month.

As for your power numbers, you already claimed you were using GPUs earlier. But if you are now switching to the solution offered by butterfly labs, that's (possibly) an improvement over GPUs. Currently there is some skepticism about their products, though their price/MHash is very attractive. I have contacted them myself asking some very pointed questions to try and clarify some of the more vague specifics on their site.

For example, it makes no sense why their product uses TWICE the power that the current more "diy" grade FPGA solutions (like Icarus, and X6500) consume.

In addition I have concerns that their marketing speak is getting in the way here. And that when they claim 832MHash/s they are in fact talking about raw SHA256 hashes. Which anyone with familiarity with the details of bitcoin mining, is aware it takes TWO SHA256 hashes to result in one "bitcoin hash". So if they are in fact trying this marketing doubletalk, then you're only going to see 416MHash of bitcoin performance out of that "Single" box of theirs. (if it is able to pull off 832MHash for the price they offer, that is awesome however).

I do hope they are able to come through on their promises. If they can in fact, their "Rig Box" is a fantastic deal, and I may consider aquiring one for the syndicate. But if they can't come through and deliver as promised, the Syndicate has some tricks of our own up our sleeves (for one I'm in the middle right now of developing our own FPGA solution that should come close to the price performance ratio offered by butterflylabs while doubling their power efficiency numbers) giving the syndicate a distinct growth advantage. (though if butterfly labs comes through there is no sense re-inventing the wheel).

I've emailed them to clarify this, and am waiting on a response.

Also I hope you've thought out and planned your advertised growth rate, to confirm if you can actually meet the forecasts your advertising. If you can, more power to you, and I applaud you for your success. But if you find your calculations were way off, and you fall short, you might have a lot of angry shareholders on your hands. I'm not saying you can't do it, but your growth numbers you are claiming here appear at first glance to be a little "too good to be true" (some of which might be the better price performance ratio of the butterflylabs gear, which is still to be confirmed).

Anyway, I don't hope to get you banned from the forums, and I do agree this is a public discussion place. You have your right to free speech. But with that right, comes the ability to choose when and how to execute that right. And choosing to behave in a way that's established as poor etiquette, and disrespectful of others, and then continuing to do so when requested very politely to stop does nothing but demonstrate that you are being aggressive and confrontational for the sake of confrontation.

Best of luck!

Also this is a PUBLIC forum not your private business!  If these con-artists manage to get me kicked RSM share holders can find me on the blog or at the CoinConnect group!

Your trolling about trolling!  I'm not even bothered if you got me kicked for enlightening your readers as I've all ready ordered my first unit and will finish the IPO by buying all the shares myself if I have to once I've got all the funds!

At this point you are simply trolling. Two people have respectfully asked you to cease and desist, and you have both not done that and blatantly insulted Glasswalker and myself. Post reported.

Yes I did wish you luck. I sincerely hope for the success of new business ventures with bitcoin. However your posting here in blatent advertising of your own venture is actually inappropriate, and disrespectful. The Syndicate is paying for advertising to lead people to this thread. And the subject clearly says it's about the Bitcoin Syndicate. People will come here expecting to read about the syndicate. I did offer some basic comparisons of the available competition at the time because it was asked for, beyond that, it's disrespectful to come in here advertising your organization.

This is basically the digital equivalent of an employee from Tony's Pizzeria going a couple blocks down the road with a big sign that says "Tony's Pizzeria charges $1 less than this guy for pizza" And picketing it right outside the entrance to Joe's Pizzeria. It's impolite, and disrespectful.

If you want to educate the masses and convince them that yours is a superior investment, I suggest you post the facts in your thread, and provide abundant and clear information. And let them make their own decision.

Perhaps you were unaware that this was poor etiquette, but I'm now respectfully asking you to please refrain from blatant advertising of your investment in our thread. If you have something legitimate which is about The Bitcoin Syndicate to add, please feel free to do so, or if you find that information posted here is incorrect, feel free to offer corrections. But do not come in here specifically to try and derail the interest we've gathered in this thread, and the advertising that our shareholders have paid for.

Also:
No need for this to degrade into flaming and attacking other members of the forum. I think we're being extremely professional and polite, and respectfully requesting that you stop advertising here.

If you're concerned about public opinion of your goals and ventures, I suggest you think carefully before demonstrating behavior that could be considered of questionable ethics on the public forums. It will go a long way to helping improve peoples opinion of you, and their faith in this and future investment opportunities you might present.

Thanks!