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Topic: Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST - page 4. (Read 48539 times)

donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis

Investors BTC --->  Ponzi ---> His Exchange Account ----> USD in his checking account.


I would imagine the above connection to be hard to prove.

Really?  With the exchange account in his name?  To withdraw $150K would require full KYC and docs.

this.

or pirate would have to claim he got the btc some other way and it was his. like he mined it all back in 2009/2010...   i don't know. seems messy.


Guys the account is in his name sure. Good luck proving the connection with the (alleged) Ponzi though Bitcoins are Bitcoins. In a criminal case Trendon is the accused, he doesn't have to explain how he got the Bitcoins. The prosecution needs to prove how he got it beyond reasonable doubt. IANAL though

But all they would have to do is link him to his pirateat40 account, the lowest charge they can throw at him is an unregistered security.


They still have to prove he received Bitcoins for the investment. (and even then convince the judge this is a value transfer)

Nope the mere offering of unlicensed security is a crime.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125

Investors BTC --->  Ponzi ---> His Exchange Account ----> USD in his checking account.


I would imagine the above connection to be hard to prove.

Really?  With the exchange account in his name?  To withdraw $150K would require full KYC and docs.

this.

or pirate would have to claim he got the btc some other way and it was his. like he mined it all back in 2009/2010...   i don't know. seems messy.


Guys the account is in his name sure. Good luck proving the connection with the (alleged) Ponzi though Bitcoins are Bitcoins. In a criminal case Trendon is the accused, he doesn't have to explain how he got the Bitcoins. The prosecution needs to prove how he got it beyond reasonable doubt. IANAL though

But all they would have to do is link him to his pirateat40 account, the lowest charge they can throw at him is an unregistered security.


They still have to prove he received Bitcoins for the investment. (and even then convince the judge this is a value transfer)
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125

Investors BTC --->  Ponzi ---> His Exchange Account ----> USD in his checking account.


I would imagine the above connection to be hard to prove.

Really?  With the exchange account in his name?  To withdraw $150K would require full KYC and docs.

this.

or pirate would have to claim he got the btc some other way and it was his. like he mined it all back in 2009/2010...   i don't know. seems messy.


Guys the account is in his name sure. Good luck proving the connection with the (alleged) Ponzi though Bitcoins are Bitcoins. In a criminal case Trendon is the accused, he doesn't have to explain how he got the Bitcoins. The prosecution needs to prove how he got it beyond reasonable doubt. IANAL though
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis

Investors BTC --->  Ponzi ---> His Exchange Account ----> USD in his checking account.


I would imagine the above connection to be hard to prove.

Really?  With the exchange account in his name?  To withdraw $150K would require full KYC and docs.
To seize assets you require a warrant and that would require proving at least to a judge that there is sufficient cause.

Now if he had kept it all as BTC and sent them to a variety of encrypted and brainwallets that would be a lot harder.  Then again at least according to the press release Pirate was an idiot. I mean he lost the lion's share of what he stole.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125

Investors BTC --->  Ponzi ---> His Exchange Account ----> USD in his checking account.


I would imagine the above connection to be hard to prove.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1000
Pet rocks are serious business.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
Pretty sure in texas they cant take his house. Also this is only the sec and not the fbi.

The sec is trying to get a court order... why not do it first then tell pirate?

Seems like they have a weak case or something. Anyway 150000.... that wont go far even if collected.

yeah, I think it will be hard to get a conviction. Still, I didn't expect the SEC to do anything.

What would be hard about a conviction.  ponzi schemes are completely illegal.  Did he promise investors a return?  Did he pay investors from the deposits of newer investors?

That is really all that is needed. Some financial crime can be very tough to prove but something is either a ponzi or not. 

BTW though the SEC can't file criminal charges that would be the job of the Justice Dept.  Of course the SEC can hand over everything they have to them.

If investments were made in US Dollars it would be far easier to prove he actually received the money, the pseudo anonymity of Bitcoin makes this complicated. Further the legal status of Bitcoin is far from certain. If I make a Ponzi in Eve Online/Wow will the SEC (or the justice department) prosecute me as well?

Well per the press release he deposited 150,000 BTC on an exchange and then lost about half in day trading and then transfered ~$150K worth (USD) into a checking account.    If necessary getting the records of the exchange to obtain his deposit addresses wouldn't be very difficult. 

Investors BTC --->  Ponzi ---> His Exchange Account ----> USD in his checking account.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
Pretty sure in texas they cant take his house. Also this is only the sec and not the fbi.

The sec is trying to get a court order... why not do it first then tell pirate?

Seems like they have a weak case or something. Anyway 150000.... that wont go far even if collected.

yeah, I think it will be hard to get a conviction. Still, I didn't expect the SEC to do anything.

What would be hard about a conviction.  ponzi schemes are completely illegal.  Did he promise investors a return?  Did he pay investors from the deposits of newer investors?

That is really all that is needed. Some financial crime can be very tough to prove but something is either a ponzi or not. 

BTW though the SEC can't file criminal charges that would be the job of the Justice Dept.  Of course the SEC can hand over everything they have to them.

If investments were made in US Dollars it would be far easier to prove he actually received the money, the pseudo anonymity of Bitcoin makes this complicated. Further the legal status of Bitcoin is far from certain. If I make a Ponzi in Eve Online/Wow will the SEC (or the justice department) prosecute me as well?
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
Pretty sure in texas they cant take his house. Also this is only the sec and not the fbi.

The sec is trying to get a court order... why not do it first then tell pirate?

Seems like they have a weak case or something. Anyway 150000.... that wont go far even if collected.

yeah, I think it will be hard to get a conviction. Still, I didn't expect the SEC to do anything.

What would be hard about a conviction.  ponzi schemes are completely illegal.  Did he promise investors a return?  Did he pay investors from the deposits of newer investors? That is really all that is needed. Some financial crime can be very tough to prove but something is either a ponzi or not.  

The uncliensed security issue is even easier to prove.  He didn't register with SEC.  They simply needs to find one or more persons willing to testify that Pirate offered them an investment.  Note the word offered.  Proof that funds exchanged hands or securities were sold isn't even a requirement.

BTW though the SEC can't file criminal charges that would be the job of the Justice Dept.  Of course the SEC can hand over everything they have to them.  If Justice Dept doesn't move it probably has more to do with the small scale then any inability to secure a conviction. 
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
Pretty sure in texas they cant take his house. Also this is only the sec and not the fbi.

It depends.  Was funds from the scam used to make house payments.   If so then more than one district attorney has gone the "procedes of a criminal enterprise angle".  More common to deprive drug dealers of physical assets (that they could use for bail) but who knows.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
I wonder if he was smart enough not to put all his eggs in one basket. There's other ways to withdraw wealth from BTC besides an exchange platform.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
Me thinks he gets the same treatment like the Sonny K guy from BF...
 
-> 100$ Fine and a slap on the wrist (Bad boy you .... bad .. Sad)

<-- Technically I'm trolling Cheesy


hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009

Seems like they have a weak case or something. Anyway 150000.... that wont go far even if collected.

It's gonna be interesting to see if they'll do a Madoff trying to claw back from those that profited from pirate, like theymos.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
Pretty sure in texas they cant take his house. Also this is only the sec and not the fbi.

The sec is trying to get a court order... why not do it first then tell pirate?

Seems like they have a weak case or something. Anyway 150000.... that wont go far even if collected.

yeah, I think it will be hard to get a conviction. Still, I didn't expect the SEC to do anything.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000

I doubt we see a payday, especially since some of the PT destroyed their data. But this is at least good!

Note that the press release says that Trendon only cleared $150k on the scam.  There won't be any recovery of funds.

And he lost a lot more, but still, they froze his bank assets, and they can sell his assets AKA house, car. So some of the funds can be used to pay back some people.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000

I doubt we see a payday, especially since some of the PT destroyed their data. But this is at least good!
sr. member
Activity: 461
Merit: 251
Quote
The SEC is seeking a court order to freeze the assets of Shavers and BTCST in addition to other relief, including permanent injunctions, disgorgement of ill-gotten gains with prejudgment interest, and financial penalties.

Meaning they haven't frozen his assets yet??
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
He probably has very few coins left and sold them for a lot cheaper than they are now.

I don't get why people claim he has xxx,xxx coins...if he even had that many on deposit where do you think the 7% came from?

I wouldn't be surprised If he quit paying out before running out of coin entirely but to say mid 6 figures were left seems crazy

If he's really still living at a known location with no personal "visits" it's quite amusing no one is willing to pay a visit

Luckily almost entirely avoided this odvious scam. Made a few week gamble for the 7% and got out in time xD

This is known as picking up nickels in front of a steamroller.  Fun maybe, but really stupid.
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
He probably has very few coins left and sold them for a lot cheaper than they are now.

I don't get why people claim he has xxx,xxx coins...if he even had that many on deposit where do you think the 7% came from?

I wouldn't be surprised If he quit paying out before running out of coin entirely but to say mid 6 figures were left seems crazy

If he's really still living at a known location with no personal "visits" it's quite amusing no one is willing to pay a visit

Luckily almost entirely avoided this odvious scam. Made a few week gamble for the 7% and got out in time xD
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