Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1012. (Read 2032266 times)

I'll generalize that a little more; it's a fad amongst the tech crowd to say price doesn't matter. Getting further into the realm of spec, I think it's because talking about price is probably considered a bit crude, non-intellectual, even greedy/materialistic. The tech crowd wants to remain more "pure" than that, and therefore talks about bitcoin more intellectually as a breakthrough technology, without regard to the asset side of the dynamic.

Yet many know that the price of bitcoin has to increase by a couple orders of magnitude in order to unlock the potential that they see for the technology. Jeremy Allaire is one example (downplays talk of price, but makes statements that require *much* higher price to be true).

Anyways...it's an annoying fad; ideally we should all just be able to be honest about all of it, but the upside to the above approach is probably that maintaining such outward "purity" makes the bitcoin ecosystem less of a turn-off to the set of newbies who are prone to consider the whole thing a scam or some such.

The fact of the matter is gold's value is always expressed in terms of the USD unit of account despite hypocrite Jim Rickards always leveling that criticism against Bitcoin. Therefore it's quite reasonable to reference gold versus Bitcoin in this manner.

The only time gold is expressed in its own terms is when we talk about buying a men's suit.

Excerpt from: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinThoughts/comments/2e4ant/a_few_thoughts_wednesday_august_20_2014/?sort=confidence

The VC bubble and a domino effect of failures

The latest fad in /r/bitcoin is that the price of bitcoin doesn't matter. One thread was titled "Sean's Outpost can give meals whether bitcoin is worth $35 or $1200!" That's true, but bitcoin is more complicated than that one use case.

I talked about the insane amounts of venture capital being poured into the industry right now a few weeks ago. The price of bitcoin is important for these people because it affects all sorts of businesses. For example, mining businesses can't profit if there is a crash after they design their chips. Exchanges make less money if the price is lower because a lower price can't support high volume. People who build projects on top of the network and who are sitting on donations can fold. Altcoins that are promising can be forked because it is no longer profitable to mine them.

Even at higher prices, there was not enough money to go around to prevent most of the VCs from losing on their investments. The piece of the pie that the VCs can earn shrinks as the price of a bitcoin falls. These people have deep pockets, so most of them can survive a brief downturn, but as the network expands, the lower bound price that would precipitate a complete collapse is rising.

When bitcoins averaged around $50, there weren't lots of employees getting paid in bitcoins and bankers wanting returns on investment. Now that bitcoins tend to average around $600, the size of the economy has increased significantly. Previously, the price of bitcoins could have dropped to $10 and everyone could still have looked forward to a recovery. Now, the minimum price is much higher (I've said $200) where a cascading chain reaction of business failures would take out the whole industry. In the future, that minimum price will likely rise to $1000, and then to $10,000, and so on.

The price falling below $200 or whatever the minimum is doesn't itself signal anything wrong with the promise of bitcoins. Instead, the low price will cause the failure of some critical part of the infrastructure like a major exchange, which could then cause businesses that depend on the exchange to be taken out, and so on. Even if everyone who owns bitcoins believed that the technology would succeed and there were many people spending bitcoins, the businesses would all be forced into bankruptcy simply because other businesses they need to offer their services failed in a chain reaction.

This VC bubble is dangerous and the best thing that could happen right now is for the VCs to stop temporarily with their investments so that this does not happen. Otherwise, the industry will end up in a fragile state where there are startups depending on other startups that have business models depending on a base price.

maybe. Still, BTC is going down from 8 months+ almost no-stop and is less than 50% its ATH.
gold collapsed less atm.

considering we are talking about two arbitrary units (1 bitcoin, and 1 oz) compared to a third party (usd), you must see how ridiculous this is. but i agree, it is exciting for some reason... go humans

Gold has an up and coming date with Bitcoin. Satoshi won't be kind this time by putting his fist through the face of gold.

Although we can't be sure Satoshi isn't a woman who doesn't believe in violence. Even so, when it happens, you gotta believe there will be some sort of fireworks. 

I wonder if that is the market pricing in the relative "danger" of borrowing bitcoin?

US collapsing.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x246nwe_%CE%B7-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%B3%CE%BC%CE%AE-%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85-%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CE%B1%CF%83%CF%84%CF%85%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%BF%CE%AF-%CE%B5%CE%BA%CF%84%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BF%CF%8D%CE%BD-%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%BD-25%CF%87%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%BF-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF-%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%B6%CE%BF%CF%8D%CF%81%CE%B9_news

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin up.

Just read the May '14 paper by Peter Surda The origin, classification and utility of Bitcoin (worth a read).

There's many quotes from austrian economics in there. Here's two I find especially notable:



I disagree with the bolded part. No, we will not fail to find a method to substitute these qualities (scarcity, cannot be produced at will by govt) of gold. In fact we already found it: the method is Bitcoin. I don't care what ideas the governments are commited to. We are the people and we decide what we use as money. Now all we have to do is elevate Bitcoin from status of a medium of exchange to the category of money by using it as a unit of account and make it be widely accepted for payment.

To quote some dude from the teaser (worth a watch, length 2:23) of documentary (or should I say "Bitcoin propaganda film"?) "crypto for the masses" (relevant thread by Meni Rosenfeld): "Money is not the property of the state, it belongs to the citizens. And the state knows it."

Bitcoin is a weapon... similar to a pitchfork regarding usage patterns, it might turn out in retrospect.

traderCJ & Teebone,

i warned you about this.  and guess what?  Bitcoin unaffected!:

up close and dirty.

tonite's futures:

Paging traderCJ & Teebone!

oh noes!  gold commencing the plunge!:

shorts in full flight and the green little line still hasn't even turned up yet:

talk about ridiculous:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/20/u-s-military-bans-the-intercept/

Theres no doubt right away today thats a rubbish bet for Schiff.     If bitcoin fails and the amagi guy has to pay 3 dollars for a btc or less, then its hardly much of a penalty.  
If schiff loses and bitcoin is worth 100k then its going to sting a hell of a lot more

edit just spotted that, makes alot more sense

The only extra point is that gold is also likely to rise if bitcoin did go up that much but its not certain. So schiff holding gold is not going bankrupt but its very true that bitcoin could rise significantly more.   Just in terms of supply, gold is likely to be mined to a greater degree and as the price rises then its supply increases as it becomes worthwhile.
Thats not a bet, we know today that is for certain.  If gold rises I know there are thousands of mines just ready to open and start returning ounces and they arent bothering now as its expensive but the gold is there.  Various reasons, could be the mine is flooded and needs alot of pumps.  
  Switch to bitcoin and again its not a bet, we know the supply is fixed and the price cannot increase the amount in fact there are less BTC mined every year.    
So his bet is more like one made as if the protocol will be broken, is he a crypto specialist? nope


So its a crap bet and really schiff is being absolute and a bit reckless on a subject he is not learned on.   Who is his tech advisor, never heard him mention one.  He is great on fundamentals but when he says BTC must fail because its not backed by anything, is he forgetting dollar is increasingly just a cotton rag with a promise on it and we been using it for decades in that state.  Even if btc were to fail, it might take twenty years to play out and price will rise meantime for five years; very possible

Something tells me that we may not have to wait that long for that to happen. Currently I don't accept USD for any of my products either. Makes things much simpler for payment processing.

I can honestly say that I do not remember you defining "everything" to mean only those assets/investments.

I appreciate your willingness to be more clear in the future.

Amagi doesn't want your USD's, they want your BTC.  also, from the sounds of it, they like BTC better than gold.

It does say "after 2106", which is a few years away. So in the meantime they get loads of free publicity from a bit of hot air. Let's check back in 2017 and see if Amagi are rejecting customers with dollars - I bet not!