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Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1462. (Read 2032274 times)

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 04, 2012, 10:43:53 PM
where the hell are the Bitcoin Bears?

Getting throttled by the Bitcoin Billionaires Smiley

Meanwhile, Turk is right on with gold when he suggests that we're facing more than a liquidity or insolvency crisis.

Lastly, I haven't weighed in on the equities decline because it hasn't had the ring of true concern; it's been more like a toddler's temper tantrum than a genuine emergency situation. This has been highlighted nicely by Eric De Groot.

Eric Degroot will be wrong; again.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
June 04, 2012, 10:26:06 PM
where the hell are the Bitcoin Bears?

Getting throttled by the Bitcoin Billionaires Smiley

Meanwhile, Turk is right on with gold when he suggests that we're facing more than a liquidity or insolvency crisis.

Lastly, I haven't weighed in on the equities decline because it hasn't had the ring of true concern; it's been more like a toddler's temper tantrum than a genuine emergency situation. This has been highlighted nicely by Eric De Groot.
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1000
June 04, 2012, 10:25:43 PM
where the hell are the Bitcoin Bears?

going on summer hibernation :-)
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 04, 2012, 10:13:54 PM
where the hell are the Bitcoin Bears?
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
June 04, 2012, 02:10:51 PM


Agree.  I have sort of the same mindset about it that Dr. Strangelove asserted those who were about to enter the mineshafts would feel.


lol. 

George C Scott voice: "Mr. President, we must not allow a mineshaft gap!"
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
June 04, 2012, 02:07:51 PM

The transition will be tricky, a bit like operating on a beating heart. Community currencies can go along way toward filing in the inevitable gaps, and have the potential to become well established players.

Agree.  I have sort of the same mindset about it that Dr. Strangelove asserted those who were about to enter the mineshafts would feel.

...and a large part of the reason that my nest-egg has a distinctly golden hue to it.


If all else fails you can always use it to clobber someone over the head.

Unfortunately there is a possibility that that ability will end up being one of the more valuable tools to have in one's toolbox Sad

legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
June 04, 2012, 02:02:17 PM
Governments can buy debt from eachother simultaneously and at will.

Some countries have debt/gdp ratio limits.

Some countries throw inconvenient limits right out the window when the chips are down.

legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
June 04, 2012, 02:00:28 PM
...
But it is bound to collapse at some point.  The big question in my mind is 'then what?'  I personally doubt that it would be possible to be using 'pre-collapse' instruments, so I don't hold much hope for sitting on a bunch of much more valuable USD complements of the classical theories of economics and how they explain the effects of a deflationary event.  So, saying "Gold has fallen to $400/oz" will be a laughable statement to some and a mystifying statement to others.

I could be wrong...I often am.

The transition will be tricky, a bit like operating on a beating heart. Community currencies can go along way toward filing in the inevitable gaps, and have the potential to become well established players.

Agree.  I have sort of the same mindset about it that Dr. Strangelove asserted those who were about to enter the mineshafts would feel.

I also think that these combine with REAL p2p crypto-accounting methods and possibly in combination with some of the mesh networks thoughts could emerge as a real revolution for humanity.  It's a promise worth working towards IMHO.

How likely would such a thing be to come into fruition?  How edible would the fruit end up being?  These are very big questions in my mind...and a large part of the reason that my nest-egg has a distinctly golden hue to it.

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
June 04, 2012, 01:56:13 PM
Governments can buy debt from eachother simultaneously and at will.

Some countries have debt/gdp ratio limits.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
June 04, 2012, 01:26:42 PM

...

do i consider that a truce?  if so, i gladly accept it.  we need to stop bashing each other.  its too distracting and we need to get down to work to figure out just what is likely to happen.

Sure.  But I'm happy to have you calling bullshit thoughts of mine which you find absurd, and I don't have much ability not to do likewise (personally weakness.)  I'm totally down with taking things to a less spurious level though.  I strongly feel that it is of significant value to throw a lot of hypothesis out and hash through them.  I personally should be better at walking away from loggerheads though.

If you can swear-to-god-hope-to-die-stick-a-needle-in-your-eye that none of your public statements are self-serving in that they are designed to steer the herd toward positions which are in your and your subscribers interests and at the expense of their own, I'll accept it and do my best to moderate my more thorny barbs against your newsletter operation.

Actually, it might be rather pointless.  I feel that I am probably running out of interest in at least the Bitcointalk.org aspect of things for a time.  Not sure, but I am getting that sense, and I've very close to some life changes which (hopefully) will deflect my attention to other things.

Edit: fix syntax.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
June 04, 2012, 01:18:00 PM
... we need to get down to work to figure out just what is likely to happen.

This.

And a little more of this, that, and another thing.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
June 04, 2012, 01:12:50 PM
'a default leads to just a resetting of the existing system'
?  Why doesnt every country default on every debt immediately then?

The main reason seem to me to be most probably because the old cow still has some milk left in her.

Nations do seem to be positioning for their best advantage in a very different economic landscape, however, and at an ever increasing rate.  The US got serious decades ahead of most.

.. My question is what are the consequences of defaulting on debt?  Because the consequences of printing lots of money is easy to see...

It is a problem of managing liquidity.

If there were no debt there would be no money.

I happen to believe this at a fundemental level mostly because it works so well to explain a lot of otherwise mysterious things.

I believe that 'money printing' is a matter of creating debt and handing it off.  Governments can buy debt from eachother simultaneously and at will.  And governments dictate how accounting works for both themselves and the corp/gov body.  This gives them the ability to take the charade to a highly elevated level.

But it is bound to collapse at some point.  The big question in my mind is 'then what?'  I personally doubt that it would be possible to be using 'pre-collapse' instruments, so I don't hold much hope for sitting on a bunch of much more valuable USD complements of the classical theories of economics and how they explain the effects of a deflationary event.  So, saying "Gold has fallen to $400/oz" will be a laughable statement to some and a mystifying statement to others.

I could be wrong...I often am.

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 04, 2012, 12:53:15 PM
...
even some of my own subscribers don't believe me, lol!
I think that SilverBox said it best.  Something like: 'I like you cypherdoc...I'm just not going to jump off the bridge with you.'
i already knows he likes me.  now, if you said you liked me that would mean something. Wink

The only reason I credited it to Silverbox was out of fairness.  Else I'd gladly have said it myself...and, like most things I say, there would be a fair amount of truth though this can be obscured under layers of other stuff.



do i consider that a truce?  if so, i gladly accept it.  we need to stop bashing each other.  its too distracting and we need to get down to work to figure out just what is likely to happen.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
June 04, 2012, 12:48:13 PM
...
even some of my own subscribers don't believe me, lol!
I think that SilverBox said it best.  Something like: 'I like you cypherdoc...I'm just not going to jump off the bridge with you.'
i already knows he likes me.  now, if you said you liked me that would mean something. Wink

The only reason I credited it to Silverbox was out of fairness.  Else I'd gladly have said it myself...and, like most things I say, there would be a fair amount of truth though this can be obscured under layers of other stuff.

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 04, 2012, 12:40:22 PM
'a default leads to just a resetting of the existing system'

?  Why doesnt every country default on every debt immediately then?

.. My question is what are the consequences of defaulting on debt?  Because the consequences of printing lots of money is easy to see...

It is a problem of managing liquidity.

If there were no debt there would be no money.


Thank You.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 04, 2012, 12:17:19 PM
'a default leads to just a resetting of the existing system'

?  Why doesnt every country default on every debt immediately then?

.. My question is what are the consequences of defaulting on debt?  Because the consequences of printing lots of money is easy to see...

can't you see happening?  Iceland, Ireland to a degree, Greece, soon to be Spain.

things happen slowly at first, then all at once.  even the US will one day.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 04, 2012, 12:15:58 PM
...
even some of my own subscribers don't believe me, lol!

I think that SilverBox said it best.  Something like: 'I like you cypherdoc...I'm just not going to jump off the bridge with you.'



i already know he likes me.  now, if you said you liked me that would mean something. Wink
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
June 04, 2012, 12:09:21 PM
'a default leads to just a resetting of the existing system'

?  Why doesnt every country default on every debt immediately then?

.. My question is what are the consequences of defaulting on debt?  Because the consequences of printing lots of money is easy to see...
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
June 04, 2012, 12:08:37 PM
...
even some of my own subscribers don't believe me, lol!

I think that SilverBox said it best.  Something like: 'I like you cypherdoc...I'm just not going to jump off the bridge with you.'

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 04, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
actually my subs don't have to vouch for anything.  i wrote everything right here in this thread.  go back and check.

I remember.  No need to check.  Just wondering if you covered yet, as the dollar index is falling..  

Don't get caught with your pants down with QE3, euro gold bonds, and a falling dollar index  all on the table...

for this you need to understand the deflationary argument.  go back and listen to the Turk Prechter interview i put up.

I tried, but it sounded like 2 guys congratulating each other on being great minds who make predictions that don't come true..  



That video was the first time I ever came close to understanding the deflation argument.

Give it another try... its good to understand the other side of the argument even if you disagree with it.

Oh I understand the deflationary argument.  I just don't agree with it.  

Fair enough... the deflation argument was/is really hard for me to wrap my head around.  It's just never a good idea to bet against something you dont understand.

EDIT: listening to it again now actually Wink

Nothing more then there won't be enuf money to go around.  The problem is the Fed can make as much money as it wants....  Hard to have a shortage of something that you can create an infinite amount of..  
Paraphrased quote from the vid
"1. The central banks are working in a credit system.  2. If all there was in currency out there it would be different.  3. The US depends on the integrity of its bonds and assets.  4. This couldn't be solved by printing dollars even if they wanted to"

The part I have real trouble understanding is what happens between step 3 and 4.  Why does a default hurt less then hyperinflation?

well, one simplified reason is that a default leads to just a resetting of the existing system; HI results in a trashing of the entire existing system.  which is easier and preserves the status quo?
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