Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1477. (Read 2032274 times)

legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
May 23, 2012, 08:59:09 PM
Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan


"Hope is the denial of reality."

Interesting quote...coming from you...  As best I can tell, the entire foundation of your belief that the all economic activity of earth is destined to revolve around Bitcoin is constructed almost exclusively of 'hope'.

legendary
Activity: 1441
Merit: 1000
Live and enjoy experiments
May 23, 2012, 08:52:24 PM
Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan
"Hope is the denial of reality."
Are you talking about gold, or its obsoleteness? 
It can be interpreted either way Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
May 23, 2012, 08:43:16 PM
Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan


"Hope is the denial of reality."
legendary
Activity: 1441
Merit: 1000
Live and enjoy experiments
May 23, 2012, 08:41:07 PM
Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009....
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- Carl Sagan
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
May 23, 2012, 08:30:28 PM

No - the dollar can go up, down and all around. That doesn't change the fact that it is being rejected around the world. All you're seeing is a rising dollar juxtaposed with a falling paper gold. There is no valid discovery mechanism for gold's value with existing markets because the assumption is that the denomination is fiat rather than gold. Priced In Gold is the closest we have to observing gold's true value.

this is all in your mind.  i asked you before; give me a link to where i can sell the last remaining gold coins i have for this mythical $35000/oz price you keep touting.  

the fact is the USD is rising relative to everything.  unfortunately, real prices are reflected in the charts.  i can now buy 1 oz of silver for 54% of what i did last May despite what you're preaching.

Quote
Anyone holding physical metal has experienced a rise in purchasing power and has no need to fear any financial catastrophe, whether deflationary or inflationary.

goes up in value no matter what!!!  anyone with a brain can see this is wrong.

Quote
The dollar and other fiat currencies can whip up and down all they want: physical holders can ignore them and do things other than obsessively trade or invest - like live their lives! What hurts is the sad trend of western nations toward a modernized Hitler/Mussolini/Stalin-style fascism and the associated destruction of humanity.

hey bitcool;  who's trying to scare ppl into investing in what?  i'd say gold bugs are notorious for this.

Quote
What you can't see is wiping you out. Dig deeper than the numbers flitting across your screen

unfortunately, the screens reflect real prices, ie, reality.  you're living in a dream.
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
May 23, 2012, 08:27:05 PM
Gold is monetarily obsolete since 2009. Too easy to counterfeit, heavy, physical, …

The future is controlled scarcity/inflation in the digital realm, and only Bitcoin can do that without a central authority.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
May 23, 2012, 08:21:36 PM
as the USD skyrockets.  wasn't the whole premise of gold/silver to offset a USD plunge?

i truly wonder who the true marketers are?  certainly you guys. 

as pointed out in the Etsy Labs talk.  you guys are losing out on both ends; rising USD and falling gold/silver.  must hurt.  problem is, you better hope you're not wrong.

it's actually become a religion.   Grin

No - the dollar can go up, down and all around. That doesn't change the fact that it is being rejected around the world. All you're seeing is a rising dollar juxtaposed with a falling paper gold. There is no valid discovery mechanism for gold's value with existing markets because the assumption is that the denomination is fiat rather than gold. Priced In Gold is the closest we have to observing gold's true value.

Anyone holding physical metal has experienced a rise in purchasing power and has no need to fear any financial catastrophe, whether deflationary or inflationary. The dollar and other fiat currencies can whip up and down all they want: physical holders can ignore them and do things other than obsessively trade or invest - like live their lives! What hurts is the sad trend of western nations toward a modernized Hitler/Mussolini/Stalin-style fascism and the associated destruction of humanity.

What you can't see is wiping you out. Dig deeper than the numbers flitting across your screen; get financial NVGs.




legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
May 23, 2012, 07:58:24 PM
Why is this thread so popular? I just read a couple of the beginning pages and a few of the end. It started about one thing but I don't know what is is about now?
Hmm... "I skipped the majority of the conversation and now I'm lost" is what I'm hearing.
Yes. I would say it differently. I tried to figure out what the converstation was about without reading for 20 minutes. After 5 minutes I decided to just ask because I was lost.
Let's make the long story short: Mr. Cypherdoc, the great marketer, tries to scare some wealthy individuals out of PM market to support bitcoins, but those stingy bugs won't budge, holding on for dear life to their coin bags, kicking and screaming.  Grin

I concur mightily...and lol'd.




as the USD skyrockets.  wasn't the whole premise of gold/silver to offset a USD plunge?

i truly wonder who the true marketers are?  certainly you guys. 

as pointed out in the Etsy Labs talk.  you guys are losing out on both ends; rising USD and falling gold/silver.  must hurt.  problem is, you better hope you're not wrong.

it's actually become a religion.   Grin
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
May 23, 2012, 06:41:56 PM
Why is this thread so popular? I just read a couple of the beginning pages and a few of the end. It started about one thing but I don't know what is is about now?
Hmm... "I skipped the majority of the conversation and now I'm lost" is what I'm hearing.
Yes. I would say it differently. I tried to figure out what the converstation was about without reading for 20 minutes. After 5 minutes I decided to just ask because I was lost.
Let's make the long story short: Mr. Cypherdoc, the great marketer, tries to scare some wealthy individuals out of PM market to support bitcoins, but those stingy bugs won't budge, holding on for dear life to their coin bags, kicking and screaming.  Grin

I concur mightily...and lol'd.

legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
May 23, 2012, 06:10:23 PM
Im on board with the idea that gold is going below the 2011 low (~$1523)  ... Im just not sure it will stay there very long.

"Official" pricing could stay there permanently if the assault by banks & gov'ts is finally successful in fully separating paper & physical. Paper remains manageable, while physical is unavailable at paper prices; artificially-induced shortages.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
May 23, 2012, 05:27:43 PM
Its hard to argue with this...

http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=DX&p=d1
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=DX&p=w1

Im on board with the idea that gold is going below the 2011 low (~$1523)  ... Im just not sure it will stay there very long.
full member
Activity: 223
Merit: 100
May 23, 2012, 05:25:54 PM
Why is this thread so popular? I just read a couple of the beginning pages and a few of the end. It started about one thing but I don't know what is is about now?

I just discovered this thread recently myself after diversifying into Bitcoin and I find it a nice change from some of the precious metals blogs/forums that I frequent. This community is definitely much more technical, so considering I still have Load "$",8,1 embedded in my head from a misspent youth on a Commodore 64, I definitely prefer the clientele here over your typical "Stack silver bitchez!" crowd.  Wink

Also, it's not all metals all the time over here - if I want that I can go to King World News. If you were to ask someone on this thread about the reasoning behind their positions, you're much more likely to get a very detailed, technical and informative post rather than just cheerleading.

Anyway, I'm off to KWN so I can fantasize about being a multi-millionaire any day now  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
May 23, 2012, 05:14:30 PM
General Comment: Gold's performance in relation to the USDX is startling and troubling today.
The upward move in BTC that I was anticipating remains something of a yawn.

Norcini - Central Bank Gold Buyers Battling Hedge Funds Today

While cypherdoc and so many others have been selling, thinking gold is going to fall into oblivion from here, banks and other large interests have been buying like mad - a transfer of wealth from weak holders and misinterpretations to strong hands established on what actually is happening. It's all about the phyzzz.

105,231 silver contracts were dumped on the market this morning between 9am and 10am EST, as silver was smashed a dollar from $28 to $27.

The paper is coming from out of nowhere: QE is in progress, and orders of magnitude greater than anything the world has ever seen. These "markets" are a complete fabrication - prices are not reflecting value of real assets!
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
May 23, 2012, 05:13:50 PM


The point is that you would probably do better to have shares vs. something someone on the other side of a naked short gave you in lu of a share.  The differences in how these two distinct items are treated in the years of lawsuits which would follow an implosion of your broker (in the hopeful case that we have a functional justice system to adjudicate such things) could well be significant.

But do as you will.  I'm not yet to the point of even wishing to play with jr miners even though, as you say, it's getting pretty damned tempting.  OTOH, it's been tempting for many years and I have yet to regret not 'jumping in it.'

A brokerage is not the deciding factor of direct registration. If a company handles share issuance in-house or uses a transfer agent, it is dependent upon the company or its transfer agent.

The real issue is not whether your broker or the gov't fail, but whether your shares have been lent out. In that case, rehypothecation may come into play. If you do not have your shares entered as book entries with a 3rd party other than your broker (the respective company or transfer agent), you will have difficulty establishing ownership and retrieving your assets - if you even have any hope of getting them back at all.

If it's your word against your broker or a firm claiming rehypothecation rights, you are screwed. If you have a 3rd party with independent confirmation of your ownership, you will be at the front of the line for claim payout.


M is right here and T (me) is wrong on the mechanics.

Either way it is almost certainly good advice to cover one's ass as much as possible unless you are going in truly penny-ante and intend to stay that way.  If you are going to play, you might as well play to win since if there is a payoff worth having a lot of people will be interested in having it and you are likely to need all the advantages you can muster.

legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
May 23, 2012, 04:57:16 PM
I just learned about Rhodium, do I put all my savings in to it?  Tongue

Try tantalum. Call me when it crashes and you want to panic sell Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
May 23, 2012, 04:56:46 PM
not sure how anyone could be patient with silver off 46% from the top.

The price does not reflect value.

The brokerage I use doesn't offer it to my knowledge.  If I'm going to take delivery of certs, I might as well just buy physical (which I have the percentage I want in physical).  Sides none of my brokerage accounts are over the insured limits.  So unless my online brokerage and the federal government fail at the same time, I'm pretty safe.  If they do fail at the same time, its likely my certs or direct registered shares are worthless as well.

If you really want security, hold the metal in your hand Wink

The point is that you would probably do better to have shares vs. something someone on the other side of a naked short gave you in lu of a share.  The differences in how these two distinct items are treated in the years of lawsuits which would follow an implosion of your broker (in the hopeful case that we have a functional justice system to adjudicate such things) could well be significant.

But do as you will.  I'm not yet to the point of even wishing to play with jr miners even though, as you say, it's getting pretty damned tempting.  OTOH, it's been tempting for many years and I have yet to regret not 'jumping in it.'

A brokerage is not the deciding factor of direct registration. If a company handles share issuance in-house or uses a transfer agent, it is dependent upon the company or its transfer agent.

The real issue is not whether your broker or the gov't fail, but whether your shares have been lent out. In that case, rehypothecation may come into play. If you do not have your shares entered as book entries with a 3rd party other than your broker (the respective company or transfer agent), you will have difficulty establishing ownership and retrieving your assets - if you even have any hope of getting them back at all.

If it's your word against your broker or a firm claiming rehypothecation rights, you are screwed. If you have a 3rd party with independent confirmation of your ownership, you will be at the front of the line for claim payout.

Government is never a guarantee!
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
May 23, 2012, 04:42:55 PM

General Comment: Gold's performance in relation to the USDX is startling and troubling today.
The upward move in BTC that I was anticipating remains something of a yawn.

Another Score:  5/23/12
          year ago    now       delta mult
BTC     7.10         5.13       + 0.72
Gold    1515         1562      + 1.03

--------------------------
ref (for future updates):
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#czsg2011-05-08zeg2011-05-08ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv  (change date)
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html  (hist cgi at bottom)
mult=now/year_ago

day           ya-btc  btc  mult    ya-Au  Au    mult
2012-05-23  7.10  5.13  0.72    1515  1562  1.03
2012-05-22  6.30  5.09  0.81    1512  1560  1.03
2012-05-21  5.90  5.10  0.86    1514  1590  1.05
2012-05-18  7.50  5.12  0.68    1497  1592  1.06    
2012-05-17  7.80  5.09  0.65    1480  1574  1.06            
2012-05-16  7.40  5.09  0.69    1495  1533  1.03
2012-05-15  6.80  5.03  0.74    1492  1545  1.04
2012-05-14  8.50  5.00  0.59    1495  1555  1.04
2012-05-12  5.40  4.95  0.92    1505  1580  1.05
2012-05-11  5.00  4.95  0.99    1505  1580  1.05
2012-05-10  3.82  4.90  1.28    1510  1593  1.05
2012-05-09  3.75  5.03  1.34    1510  1590  1.05
2012-05-08  3.64  5.03  1.38    1497  1605  1.07
legendary
Activity: 1441
Merit: 1000
Live and enjoy experiments
May 23, 2012, 04:41:51 PM
Why is this thread so popular? I just read a couple of the beginning pages and a few of the end. It started about one thing but I don't know what is is about now?

Hmm... "I skipped the majority of the conversation and now I'm lost" is what I'm hearing.

Yes. I would say it differently. I tried to figure out what the converstation was about without reading for 20 minutes. After 5 minutes I decided to just ask because I was lost.
Let's make the long story short: Mr. Cypherdoc, the great marketer, tries to scare some wealthy individuals out of PM market to support bitcoins, but those stingy bugs won't budge, holding on for dear life to their coin bags, kicking and screaming.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
May 23, 2012, 04:25:00 PM
Why is this thread so popular? I just read a couple of the beginning pages and a few of the end. It started about one thing but I don't know what is is about now?

Hmm... "I skipped the majority of the conversation and now I'm lost" is what I'm hearing.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
May 23, 2012, 04:23:42 PM

Ok. I get it. A lot of the ramblings involved AAPL

...plus some passers-by who notice a disturbance and join the crowd to figure out what the hell it is.  Humans tend to be quite predictable in their behavior.

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