Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1483. (Read 2032274 times)

Uh ok..  So how does this mean that gold will be somehow adopted into the current system in some way that silver won't that leads to 100 to 1 silver to gold ratio??  

I don't get it.

I still fail to see how silver to gold ratio is going to 100 to 1.  When the fundamental ratio is 10 to 1.  and its trading at 50 to 1..  Again I'm betting it will move towards 10 to 1, not towards 100 to 1.

Nothing you have said has convinced me that its going to 100 to 1...

Ok, and Bitcoin is susceptible to the same type of concentration. That comes back to what we were discussing as the potential for merged mining blockchains to develop into a "lateral reserve" system. By using merged mining, an alt chain can start at nearly full-strength by utilizing the same processing for security and stability as Bitcoin. Adoption of the alternative could follow rather than be a pre-requisite for growth. Try that with fiat

uh oh, you'd better duck.  here come all the conspiracy theories from miscreanity!

let me give you several reasons why there will never be a one world currency:

N.Korea vs S.Korea
Taiwan vs China
USA vs Russia
USA vs China
Iran vs Israel
Palestine vs Israel
Israel vs The entire Middle East

did i miss any?

It's done for the Euro - marked to market daily. The ratio of the Euro to gold is monitored, and additional supply is supposed to be created to maintain a steady ratio to gold. At least, that's the idea. In practice, USD inflation has threatened international price stability, so the dollar has to be taken out of the picture before gold can be used as a basis - a floating ratio range tied to gold as the foundation.

If the Euro fails, the US dollar almost certainly will also, and vice versa. Next step: SDRs based on the same principle of a gold ratio.

My concern remains management. Bitcoin has no direct management, whereas the Euro and all other fiat currencies do (although the Somali shilling is an interesting case).

I haven't had the opportunity to read it yet (everyone here keeps posting great perspectives ) but what I've seen so far is exactly what I've been talking about as far as gold and its history in the banking system, and what several participants in this and your other gold thread have discussed on how Bitcoin solves or reduces so many of the problems.

If fiat isn't abandoned, and the gold to fiat ratio is floating and not set by the gubament, then its no different then the system we have now . 

In a nutshell, yup.  That would be at the root of the problems I would expect.

Fiat doesn't have to be abandoned. Gold now acts best as a reserve for balance of payment transactions rather than a common transactional medium. Paper still has plenty of use for transactional purposes so long as its value remains stable during the period in which the transaction occurs, so instantaneous, days, months... months/years and longer is the point where gold would be a reserve for savings instead of fiat.

The silver reserves are so inconsequential, they may as well not even exist. They're also tagged as the reserves of rare earth metals are - for emergency and/or price stabilising industrial and military purposes.

I dis-agree.  In a reasonably tight 'one world' solution a lot of the problems the EURO has (or pretends to have) would vanish.

Yes, regional & local banking is far more preferable to overwhelmingly concentrated authority.

What do you mean in regard to 'potential for gold to be used even more destructively'? I assume you're referring to concentration of ownership?


It could just be a stepping stone to SDRs, or something far worse (think genetic tagging). Never let a serious crisis go to waste...


 

I always like being told what others think I think I know

Investopedia: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monetize.asp
The Free Dictionary: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/monetization

An item can function as a currency whether it is monetized or not. Dollars are a fiat that was introduced in a monetized state, whereas pebbles may be used as currency and become monetized (as an official currency) at any time. Gold is still technically monetized when stamped with a denomination, but it has been functionally demonetized.

Yes, I would prefer that precious metals be monetized, and gold will be, even in major western countries). There's no way for western nations to maintain control without re-monetizing it. Silver may or may not follow in the western world.

Yes, confiscation has occurred in the past, but there are no compelling reasons to do so today. A primary one being that control of available supply is possible, which is more important than direct ownership. That means potential confiscation of miners, refineries - the means of production. It's much more effective to attack the source than to enforce compliance from a distributed, amorphous supply.

In any case, gold will have at least [/i]some[/i] restraining effect on banking. That's better than none, and works in conjunction with a distributed power base of public banking.

i hope you guys had a chance to read this about the Etsy Lab talk.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.910908

but you know what i mean...

it's been impossible for the Euro region to combine their fiscal policies alongside their monetary policies.  and i don't see any evidence that it will happen; in fact, plenty evidence for the opposite.

it would be worse on a worldwide basis.

This is a good point, assuming that the Federal government would ever give up fiat...  (roflmao)  

The US treasury does actually have silver reserves, however they are very small compared to gold.

The Euro was specifically NOT a 'one world' currency.  But it's very possible that it is working out exactly as planned...

Economic blocks such as the BRICs and various pesky S. American states could throw a stick into the works.  What bothers me is that a truly global solution through which all economic transactions are checkpointed is a pretty compelling solution to most nations of modest size and that trend is likely to steepen as we start running out of cheap resources.  It might even be the only possibility for retaining the reigns of power in a lot of countries so the pressure to cooperate here may be overwhelming.

that's probably one of the few good points you've made around here.  thanks! 

no wonder they don't like Bitcoin, 'eh?

how's the first attempt at that working out?  uh, Euuuuro...

I'm suggesting that silver may not be officially monetized immediately alongside gold, particularly in western nations. Silver can still retain a monetary function unofficially, but the western herd largely remains blissfully ignorant of this.

Nothing has changed in regard to gold and silver themselves. What has changed is awareness and knowledge regarding them. The transition period is more likely to be asynchronous on multiple levels, as the move is a process and not instantaneous.

Utah is one state. There are others making strides toward gold and silver monetization. However, where there are some places with sensible leadership, that doesn't apply across the board - and certainly not to individual citizens, many of whom are no doubt unaware of that legislation in Utah to begin with.

On top of the fact that Utah is one state, the overarching federal pressure is antagonistic toward precious metals in general. Whether gold and silver are officially monetized at the same remains to be seem. Maybe they will be, maybe they won't. In some countries silver may be monetized before gold is. The potential is greater for western nations to reluctantly re-monetize gold alone only due to irresistible pressure, rather than both metals at the same time. Further along, silver may then be re-monetized due to additional pressure.

Yes, it's possible for both to be official currencies again, and for them to be made official at the same time. I just think it's more likely that the metal which is under official control will be monetized first because the state is loathe to give up control and will only do so where it sees some semblance of control can be maintained. With existing reserves of gold, a measure of control is possible - with no reserves of silver, control is uncertain. Hence, official acknowledgement will probably not be as forthcoming for silver.