Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 453. (Read 2032286 times)

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 22, 2015, 12:17:13 PM
Gold up, Bitcoin down in the last few days, folks.
Although in the grand scheme of things it is all versus the US dollar (the king). I don't think Bitcoin and gold are correlated in any direct way.


weren't you the one with the great log chart of BTC/XAU showing a clear uptrend?
uki
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
cryptojunk bag holder
March 22, 2015, 11:49:24 AM
Gold up, Bitcoin down in the last few days, folks.
Although in the grand scheme of things it is all versus the US dollar (the king). I don't think Bitcoin and gold are correlated in any direct way.


i think in the grand scheme vs the dollar they are correlated - as safe havens, store of value..
one digital, and one material - two faces of the same coin.
and both subjects to fiat-ers manipulations.
that is true, although I think still not that much noticeable for Bitcoin due to relatively small market cap, as it is for gold.
Once Bitcoin becomes more widely spread (more applications) I expect similar "trends" as for gold, in function of US dollar.
sr. member
Activity: 295
Merit: 250
March 22, 2015, 11:41:55 AM
A very nice article about bitcoin and gold virtues if (when?) the dollar collapses:

When the Dollar Collapses, which is better Money, Gold or Bitcoin?
Was satoshis intent to allow for a gold backed bitcoin

No

Quote
since there is a reason he chose 21 million units based on amount of gold oz estimated that will be mined?

and no.



I might be wrong, but thought there was some programming reason why there are 100 million sats in a bitcoin. That might also be why he chose 21 million total coins.
legendary
Activity: 817
Merit: 1000
March 22, 2015, 11:21:16 AM
JR,

what's up with Odom leaving Monetas?
I only know one side of the story right now, so I can't really say.

Why aren't more people talking about this? OT was supposed to be huge for Bitcoin, it was Chris' baby for a long time now...
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
March 22, 2015, 09:33:45 AM
Gold up, Bitcoin down in the last few days, folks.
Although in the grand scheme of things it is all versus the US dollar (the king). I don't think Bitcoin and gold are correlated in any direct way.


i think in the grand scheme vs the dollar they are correlated - as safe havens, store of value..
one digital, and one material - two faces of the same coin.
and both subjects to fiat-ers manipulations.
uki
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
cryptojunk bag holder
March 22, 2015, 05:02:32 AM
Gold up, Bitcoin down in the last few days, folks.
Although in the grand scheme of things it is all versus the US dollar (the king). I don't think Bitcoin and gold are correlated in any direct way.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
March 22, 2015, 02:56:36 AM
A very nice article about bitcoin and gold virtues if (when?) the dollar collapses:

When the Dollar Collapses, which is better Money, Gold or Bitcoin?
Was satoshis intent to allow for a gold backed bitcoin

No

Quote
since there is a reason he chose 21 million units based on amount of gold oz estimated that will be mined?

and no.

legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
March 22, 2015, 02:16:36 AM

That's just a bunch of FUD. Tainting coins has not worked once in Bitcoins history.

It's never been attempted.  The infrastructure has not been developed or if it has it is not yet unvailed.  All in good time.  Probably we need Gavin's bloatchain to make sure it isn't premature and fails due to adaptation.  I personally think that even primitive tainting will work quite well even at this point due to the mechanism I've described multiple times here.  We'll see soon enough I suspect unless it waits on Gavin and he gets enough resistance to push back his timing significantly.

You may define down, or otherwise minimize, as rigorously and deflectively as you like the term 'tainting.'

smooth and I prefer the functional definition, elucidated via praxis.

IE, if you wish to move your coins, but are prevented from doing so by consequence of some third parties' ostensible interest in them rather than technical obstacles, they are by the common understanding 'tainted.'

The nightmare scenario for you Old Whales is a whitelist, where by default movement of all non-permitted coins is forbidden.

Did you read the linked reddit discussion?  Peter Todd makes some good points in this area, albeit on the shaky grounds of the slippery slope trope.

Thankfully my coins are clean so whitelisting for me would only be a disaster insofar as it would destroy any reason whatsoever for anyone to used Bitcoin and thus the solution (and my stash) would eventually die.  I'd either cash out before it dawned on people that Bitcoin was useless, or hope that a following system would start out where Bitcoin left off vis-a-vis a value base.  Probably some combination of both.

legendary
Activity: 961
Merit: 1000
March 22, 2015, 01:54:58 AM
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
March 22, 2015, 01:53:50 AM
The nightmare scenario for you Old Whales is a whitelist, where by default movement of all non-permitted coins is forbidden.

Did you read the linked reddit discussion?  Peter Todd makes some good points in this area, albeit on the shaky grounds of the slippery slope trope.

Voluntary whitelisting will never take off. Government whitelisting might happen, but so might government bans. Both are likely to be isolated/temporary, because of the chilling effects they would have on economic growth in the countries implementing them, once Bitcoin is a little more advanced.

Peter Todd is sounding like a codehead, thinking of everything from the technical angle not actual incentives (cypher's meme: "The Geeks Fail to Understand That Which They Hath Created"). There is no slippery slope of incentives for a voluntary whitelist, and that's why it's never been done before. If thieves come to an exchange practically announcing, "THESE COINS ARE STOLEN," the exchange might see it as good PR to refuse them until the coins are better mixed, but if they do any more than that, refusing coins with some level of taint, they just destroy their own business.

There's a somewhat bombastic speech by Stefan Molyneux on /r/Bitcoin today where he points out that if people had to pay directly for the war on drugs, it would come to $XXXXX per person, and people would find their moral indignation fading away quite quickly. I think the same is true with whitelists. The momentary outrage at scammers is not realistically going to incentivize people to make actual sacrifices, especially monetary sacrifices. People might say they'd patronize BTC-e if they only take clean coins, but if accounts start getting frozen customers will make a beeline out of there.

People think they have a strong opinion when they're gabbing on a forum, but the market reveals how much they really care. It's only in government where people's voice on what they think they want, but would never be willing to pay for, comes to fruition.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
March 22, 2015, 01:45:53 AM
A very nice article about bitcoin and gold virtues if (when?) the dollar collapses:

When the Dollar Collapses, which is better Money, Gold or Bitcoin?
Was satoshis intent to allow for a gold backed bitcoin since there is a reason he chose 21 million units based on amount of gold oz estimated that will be mined?
I was also thinking that the limit would be removed though because an exchange medium involving two parties relies on work instead of debt... With proof of work you exchange work for proof of work.. With limit being reached the value of the work stops rising breaking incentive to provide work reducing value as a currency.. Although the population increase may negate that.

Maybe you make it asymptotically reach 21 million so that you have an ever increasing value of work and strong incentives to work to mine.. And create efficiencies to mine easier (making it an energy issue rather than a algorithm issue)
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
March 22, 2015, 12:59:37 AM

Litecoin fading != "there will only be one" is starting to catch on

All the recent attention to the dangers of BTC's lack of privacy and fungibility have only highlighted the need for coins that offer those features.

Radical transparency certainly has its uses in certain places.  But so does radical opacity.

Hence today's brouhaha among the redditurds:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/

That's just a bunch of FUD. Tainting coins has not worked once in Bitcoins history.

You may define down, or otherwise minimize, as rigorously and deflectively as you like the term 'tainting.'

smooth and I prefer the functional definition, elucidated via praxis.

IE, if you wish to move your coins, but are prevented from doing so by consequence of some third parties' ostensible interest in them rather than technical obstacles, they are by the common understanding 'tainted.'

The nightmare scenario for you Old Whales is a whitelist, where by default movement of all non-permitted coins is forbidden.

Did you read the linked reddit discussion?  Peter Todd makes some good points in this area, albeit on the shaky grounds of the slippery slope trope.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
March 22, 2015, 12:33:11 AM

Litecoin fading != "there will only be one" is starting to catch on

All the recent attention to the dangers of BTC's lack of privacy and fungibility have only highlighted the need for coins that offer those features.

Radical transparency certainly has its uses in certain places.  But so does radical opacity.

Hence today's brouhaha among the redditurds:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/

That's just a bunch of FUD. Tainting coins has not worked once in Bitcoins history.

That depends what you mean by worked. If the reports of a blockage of btc-e transactions are correct (I'm not really sure) then people were inconvenienced by the mere attempt to sort through tainted coins, whether or not that attempt was successful. As long as people believe BTC has taint then maybe that perception itself is a problem? This is not the first and won't be the last time we've heard about the concern.

In any case, I have to agree with iCEBREAKER that LTC is irrelevant and the more interesting question is other coins that are actually different from BTC in meaningful ways.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 22, 2015, 12:13:10 AM

Litecoin fading != "there will only be one" is starting to catch on

All the recent attention to the dangers of BTC's lack of privacy and fungibility have only highlighted the need for coins that offer those features.

Radical transparency certainly has its uses in certain places.  But so does radical opacity.

Hence today's brouhaha among the redditurds:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/

That's just a bunch of FUD. Tainting coins has not worked once in Bitcoins history.
hero member
Activity: 731
Merit: 503
Libertas a calumnia
March 21, 2015, 11:51:10 PM
A very nice article about bitcoin and gold virtues if (when?) the dollar collapses:

When the Dollar Collapses, which is better Money, Gold or Bitcoin?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
March 21, 2015, 11:31:57 PM

Litecoin fading != "there will only be one" is starting to catch on

All the recent attention to the dangers of BTC's lack of privacy and fungibility have only highlighted the need for coins that offer those features.

Radical transparency certainly has its uses in certain places.  But so does radical opacity.

Hence today's brouhaha among the redditurds:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
March 21, 2015, 11:18:36 PM
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
March 21, 2015, 09:59:06 PM
It's posturing.

Actually, it's a public bribe negotiation. Congressmen make some noise, then the parties to stand to lose from the proposal find a way to "settle out of court". The only way this proposal goes anywhere is if the negotiations break down.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
full member
Activity: 660
Merit: 101
Colletrix - Bridging the Physical and Virtual Worl
March 21, 2015, 06:55:14 PM
GBI's website links to this article:
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/28296713/digital-gold
Whole thing seems unnecessary when BTC fits the bill just fine.  Cheesy

Quote
When the order hits the GBI system, it is bid out to different gold dealers around the world. Whoever bids the best price gets the transaction. Then, GBI will move that specific gold bar or coin to whatever location you choose. GBI has about half a dozen vaults across the world. Alternatively, you can even have your gold securely shipped to your home or office. Singh says he even has clients who have opted to bury their gold bars in the backyards.
Yep, burying gold is the way of the future.

Quote
He says GBI is creating a debit card that you can swipe at a local grocery store and deduct from your gold balance. GBI is even working on an app that lets you pay for hotel rooms when you're on vacation.
So which way is it: does the client keep control of the gold or not?

Quote
Singh says GBI is applying some of the innovative mechanisms of Bitcoin to gold, and you never know where it might go.
Speechless.
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