Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 481. (Read 2032286 times)

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
February 25, 2015, 04:06:10 PM
This Is What Happens To Gold In A Currency Crisis Redux:



> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-25/what-happens-gold-currency-crisis-redux

sadly bitcoin stays still.

no, you haven't plotted bitcoin versus hryvnia, it's not unlike the gold plot

hryvnia, ruble, euro.. pretty much the same weight of paper. ^^
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
February 25, 2015, 02:47:24 PM
This Is What Happens To Gold In A Currency Crisis Redux:



> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-25/what-happens-gold-currency-crisis-redux

sadly bitcoin stays still.

no, you haven't plotted bitcoin versus hryvnia, it's not unlike the gold plot
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
February 25, 2015, 01:27:52 PM


The lack of understanding continues right up to the eve of Ethereum's planned release. No comprehension of the ledger, still thinking in terms of "tokens" and "blockchain tech is the important thing, not the money."

I think part of the reason this view exists is most people do not properly understand scarcity or what scarcity truly means, largely because western society has not experienced scarcity for several generations. If you don't understand scarcity it is easy to brush off the value of BTC and focus on the Blockchain.

Since the FED was created there has been no scarcity for money and this coincided with both an energy and a technology boom which resulted in an abundance of energy, materials, steel, plastics, goods, etc. We have lived in an age of utter abundance for generations. With that has come a cavalier attitude toward money and basic goods. (Yes we have inequality and people lacking access to both food and money, but because of the central bank printer governments can fund a large safety net, no one really worries that they will starve because food stamps and disability will kick in).

Few today really understand how scarce goods behave, because there are very few truly scarce goods today. Land is another example of a scarce good, but I'm not sure what else.

Bitcoin however is the perfect example of a scarce good. The last bubble started at the same time as ASIC mining took off, which meant that for a while most mined coins were held and not sold. The result was a price spike that no one could stop. That is increasing demand against a scarce good.

That may be part of the reason people don't understand the value of strong hard money. However, it is different from the reason they don't understand why a blockchain without an integrated currency (not subcurencies, tokens, or assets) doesn't work, as Joe Coin explained well enough. That's just ignorance coupled with for example in Vitalik's case bit of wanting to do something different and pray it pays off because its supposedly unfair that it is too late (his words, paraphrasing) to be an early adopter of Bitcoin. That's a rather sad misconception because if Bitcoin works buying at 1000 USD (much less 200 USD) still means a 1 000x return or more.

As you said it is ignorance, and ignorance is a willful choice in today's age.

So one question is why do people choose to be ignorant in seeing value in Bitcoin, and say that only the Blockchain has value. There are multiple reasons. A main reason I think is that Bitcoin derives it's value from scarcity which most people have no experience with.

I don't know that, but we are on the offensive proposing that bitcoin and the blockchain are inseparable, and that the money is the main part.

So I would like to take a good amount of salt and rub it in their wounds, by proposing that the point of the blockchain, sometimes called a public ledger, is not that of a public ledger. We don't want it to be, and it seldom is. A partial proof is that it has not been possible to track diverse thiefs, where the starting address is known. If someone wants their transactions to be public and verified, they have lots of tools for that, some including use of cryptography. To be of use in forensics, most outputs must have a known owner, over time and across the world. How large a percentage is needed to say something about any owner and any address, I don't know, but it must be a high percentage of registered addresses to the total addresses. There is an analogy with the serial numbers on the fiat notes - they are probably registered when you take them off an ATM, and sometimes if you spend them in a store with the new note-reader cash registers. But with a bunch of notes, it will seldom be possible to connect a holder of a note with a crime with any certainty.

So the point of the blockchain, seen from the perspective of money, is solely to make the bitcoins verifiable. The loss of fungibility is strictly accidental, and we should use the system in a way that suppress this problem, and I think that will be the end result for all practical purposes.


legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
February 25, 2015, 01:27:51 PM
This Is What Happens To Gold In A Currency Crisis Redux:



> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-25/what-happens-gold-currency-crisis-redux

sadly bitcoin stays still.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
February 25, 2015, 01:23:30 PM
Sometimes i wonder what the heck is going on at coindesk.
Promoting scams, craving regulation, and all the insipid piece of article they can come up with..

They are selling adverts.
AFAIK, the articles are neither fact checked nor edited.
I like their pricing API though.
I think they were one of the first if not the first to drop MTGox from the index.
legendary
Activity: 1153
Merit: 1000
February 25, 2015, 12:39:49 PM


The lack of understanding continues right up to the eve of Ethereum's planned release. No comprehension of the ledger, still thinking in terms of "tokens" and "blockchain tech is the important thing, not the money."

I think part of the reason this view exists is most people do not properly understand scarcity or what scarcity truly means, largely because western society has not experienced scarcity for several generations. If you don't understand scarcity it is easy to brush off the value of BTC and focus on the Blockchain.

Since the FED was created there has been no scarcity for money and this coincided with both an energy and a technology boom which resulted in an abundance of energy, materials, steel, plastics, goods, etc. We have lived in an age of utter abundance for generations. With that has come a cavalier attitude toward money and basic goods. (Yes we have inequality and people lacking access to both food and money, but because of the central bank printer governments can fund a large safety net, no one really worries that they will starve because food stamps and disability will kick in).

Few today really understand how scarce goods behave, because there are very few truly scarce goods today. Land is another example of a scarce good, but I'm not sure what else.

Bitcoin however is the perfect example of a scarce good. The last bubble started at the same time as ASIC mining took off, which meant that for a while most mined coins were held and not sold. The result was a price spike that no one could stop. That is increasing demand against a scarce good.

That may be part of the reason people don't understand the value of strong hard money. However, it is different from the reason they don't understand why a blockchain without an integrated currency (not subcurencies, tokens, or assets) doesn't work, as Joe Coin explained well enough. That's just ignorance coupled with for example in Vitalik's case bit of wanting to do something different and pray it pays off because its supposedly unfair that it is too late (his words, paraphrasing) to be an early adopter of Bitcoin. That's a rather sad misconception because if Bitcoin works buying at 1000 USD (much less 200 USD) still means a 1 000x return or more.

As you said it is ignorance, and ignorance is a willful choice in today's age.

So one question is why do people choose to be ignorant in seeing value in Bitcoin, and say that only the Blockchain has value. There are multiple reasons. A main reason I think is that Bitcoin derives it's value from scarcity which most people have no experience with.
hero member
Activity: 544
Merit: 500
February 25, 2015, 11:14:10 AM
Quote
HSBC bosses apologise for 'unacceptable' practices
  BBC

HSBC apologise for getting caught you mean.......Ahhhhh these bastards Send them to guantanamo and throw away the key.  Angry


Meanwhile from ZH
Quote
Ukraine Enters Hyperinflation: Currency Trading Halted, "Soon We Will Walk Around With Suitcases For Cash"


its the globally hypocritical double standards the bug me the most.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1010
February 25, 2015, 10:02:52 AM


The lack of understanding continues right up to the eve of Ethereum's planned release. No comprehension of the ledger, still thinking in terms of "tokens" and "blockchain tech is the important thing, not the money."

He's simultaneously totally wrong and completely right.  

How he's right:
The concept of a database with per record access protection is incredibly useful.  For example, you'll be able to actually receive electronic financial statements or other legal documents and not worry that they will be retroactively changed without your knowledge, because your private key is needed to change them.  You could even imagine a bank that cannot change your USD balance without your OK...

For many of these databases tokens are unnecessary.  The cost of maintaining the database is simply part of ongoing operations just like databases today.  Ethereum is overly complex for this task.  Bitcoin is overly complex.  You could throw out all the mining logic, most of the scripting, etc because the DB does not need to be decentralized.

How he's wrong:
The killer app for a "database with per record access protection" is money because money is memory.  So Bitcoin.



how is that helpful to society when you, the acct holder, can change/alter them?

multisig...
legendary
Activity: 961
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 25, 2015, 06:05:45 AM
FED regular BS sponsored by coindesk:

Boston Fed Researchers: We’re Bullish on Bitcoin as a Technology

http://www.coindesk.com/boston-fed-bullish-bitcoin/

Sometimes i wonder what the heck is going on at coindesk.
Promoting scams, craving regulation, and all the insipid piece of article they can come up with..

If you had asked the Fed one year ago, they would have said they were bearish on Bitcoin as a currency and as a technology. I  think their hubris is beginning to falter as evidenced by their need to hedge the technology.
uki
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
cryptojunk bag holder
February 25, 2015, 05:20:10 AM
you can see that we formed a proper, highly capitulative bottom on 1/14.  the long term MACD continues to strengthen:
-snip-
Yes, MACD looks very healthy on your chart. I don't mind having some more of the horizontal trend to give me/us some more time to buy a bit more at these discounted prices. Once we get the cross on MACD we may expect things to start rolling.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
February 25, 2015, 03:32:55 AM
Quote from: V. Buterin (on Twitter)
blockchains are a friggin database technology, 5 years down I doubt any users will care what the underlying network token is.
Not inclined to take predictions for the next 5 years by someone born in 1994 and who has an obvious stake in one particular outcome.

He is an Internet age person. The WWW existed before he was born!  Shocked

Maybe a good thing..

In this particular matter I believe wresting the value out from Bitcoin is a bit hard but there is no lack of trying Wink

One does not need to wrest the value out of Bitcoin because approximately 99.9% of the value is not in Bitcoin.
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
February 25, 2015, 03:23:41 AM
Quote from: V. Buterin (on Twitter)
blockchains are a friggin database technology, 5 years down I doubt any users will care what the underlying network token is.
Not inclined to take predictions for the next 5 years by someone born in 1994 and who has an obvious stake in one particular outcome.

He is an Internet age person. The WWW existed before he was born!  Shocked

Maybe a good thing..

In this particular matter I believe wresting the value out from Bitcoin is a bit hard but there is no lack of trying Wink
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
February 25, 2015, 03:18:31 AM
FED regular BS sponsored by coindesk:

Boston Fed Researchers: We’re Bullish on Bitcoin as a Technology

http://www.coindesk.com/boston-fed-bullish-bitcoin/

Sometimes i wonder what the heck is going on at coindesk.
Promoting scams, craving regulation, and all the insipid piece of article they can come up with..
full member
Activity: 660
Merit: 101
Colletrix - Bridging the Physical and Virtual Worl
February 24, 2015, 11:49:31 PM
In reality, there's no need ever to add more Bitcoins. It would make far more sense to add more decimal places to better facilitate micro payments as more and more economic energy piles into Bitcoin
There is no adding more decimal places. However, there is a proposal to move the period six columns to the right, ending up with two decimal places instead of eight. The resulting unit is to be called a bit, composed of a hundred satoshi. 1.00000000 BTC (one Bitcoin) = 1,000,000.00 bits (one million bits and 0 satoshi) = 100,000,000 satoshi (one hundred million satoshi).

Thus, if you have a total balance of, say, 7.05893808 BTC, that is equivalent to 7,058,398.08 bits (seven million, fifty eight thousand, 398 bits with 8 satoshi, which is something you can actually pronounce).

Note that, if we switched to speaking about bits, the current exchange rate would be around 4,000 bits per USD (if we assume $250 USD/BTC). As in, right now you could buy yourself over 40,000 bits for $10.

Also note that, if 1 bit were worth 1 dollar, or equivalently, if 1 satoshi were worth 1 penny, then 1 BTC = 1 million USD.

One of the reasons to increase the total number of coins is to remove the long-term deflation pressure. That is one of the issues possibly affecting Bitcoin that is pointed out by Varoufakis.
If you have come to the conclusion that long-term deflation is an issue for Bitcoin, you are free to join Varoufakis in staying away from it. Fixed money supply is a central and deliberate aspect of the protocol, well-thought out, and effectively unchangeable in the foreseable future.


Quote from: V. Buterin (on Twitter)
blockchains are a friggin database technology, 5 years down I doubt any users will care what the underlying network token is.
Not inclined to take predictions for the next 5 years by someone born in 1994 and who has an obvious stake in one particular outcome.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
February 24, 2015, 11:02:32 PM
you can see that we formed a proper, highly capitulative bottom on 1/14.  the long term MACD continues to strengthen:


Man that looks like a sexy macd
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
February 24, 2015, 08:32:07 PM
Buterin is right.
Distributed ledgers can be useful, cryptocurrencies, not really.

There is no way to do a decentralized ledger without a currency. Satoshi invented a way to do one with a currency, and no one has come up with a way to remove that element and still have a viable system.

Distributed != decentralized though.

Google can build a distributed system supporting search and web applications by putting servers all over the world, but that is not decentralized. It is all controlled by Google.

You may argue that a decentralized ledger is not even useful, but that remains to be seen. It has never been tried before.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
February 24, 2015, 08:29:34 PM
The amount of bitcoins the bankstersbitcoiners have been able to coerce out from my hand since a year ago:

[size=600pt]0[/size]

Well then we will all just sit here and you can think about what you've done Angry
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
February 24, 2015, 08:13:48 PM
The amount of bitcoins the banksters have been able to coerce out from my hand since a year ago:

[size=600pt]0[/size]
full member
Activity: 462
Merit: 107
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
February 24, 2015, 07:48:11 PM
If I may: isn't the interesting part of this the coordinated fud attacks?
Yes, very interesting indeed. It's clear that bankers are organising FUD attacks on this forum and want to convince you that bitcoin is shit while they accumulate and send it to the moon while you're not watching.
It's obvious.

Go now, buy your BTCeanies BTCitcoinz before they do!





PS: Sorry guize, carry on  Grin
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