After 1000s of Years Enjoying Gold Standard now Welcome to the Bitcoin Standard
http://blog.btcxindia.com/after-1000s-of-years-enjoying-gold-standard-now-welcome-to-the-bitcoin-standard/
Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 484. (Read 2032286 times)
Man, that would suck if someone threw away your altoids. Use a Trezor myself. Really impressed with it so far. Only have one little gripe.. the usb cable that came with it was flaky but I have at least 10 micro usb cables laying around.
Why would you need multiple trezors?
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
it gets even more complicated than this.
turns out, you can have multiple wallets loaded into the Trezor all based off of one seed. to do this, you click "Enable Passphrases" in advanced settings. each time it asks you for the passphrase, enter in a different one, and you will generate multiple wallets. a different passphrase acts like an additional 25th word of the original 24 word seed thus creating a new wallet. you could deposit all your cold storage savings in one wallet then deposit 1-2 BTC in another. then if someone rubber hoses you simply reveal the passphrase to the 1-2 BTC wallet for plausible deniability. it's a clever little device.
now that you've posted this your denial is implausible, so I will use monkey wrench attack until I get at least 5 passwords from you (or you die). (sorry to put it that drastically. this is not really my plan, of course, just making a point)
If you want your money safe against such attack, you better have a component involved that you really "don't know" and that isn't "on you", like a seed in a safe somewhere. Shamirs secret sharing sounds like a good idea.
In the end, an attacker can always abduct a loved one and extort coins from you, no matter which way you have secured them.
There's nothing better for safety than a world in which everyone participates sufficiently in prosperity.
hey molecular,
next time you come over, look in the Altoid tin:
Why would you need multiple trezors?
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
it gets even more complicated than this.
turns out, you can have multiple wallets loaded into the Trezor all based off of one seed. to do this, you click "Enable Passphrases" in advanced settings. each time it asks you for the passphrase, enter in a different one, and you will generate multiple wallets. a different passphrase acts like an additional 25th word of the original 24 word seed thus creating a new wallet. you could deposit all your cold storage savings in one wallet then deposit 1-2 BTC in another. then if someone rubber hoses you simply reveal the passphrase to the 1-2 BTC wallet for plausible deniability. it's a clever little device.
now that you've posted this your denial is implausible, so I will use monkey wrench attack until I get at least 5 passwords from you (or you die). (sorry to put it that drastically. this is not really my plan, of course, just making a point)
If you want your money safe against such attack, you better have a component involved that you really "don't know" and that isn't "on you", like a seed in a safe somewhere. Shamirs secret sharing sounds like a good idea.
In the end, an attacker can always abduct a loved one and extort coins from you, no matter which way you have secured them.
There's nothing better for safety than a world in which everyone participates sufficiently in prosperity.
Nowhere did I say I am doing this. I'm just quoting from their help documents what is possible.
Why would you need multiple trezors?
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
it gets even more complicated than this.
turns out, you can have multiple wallets loaded into the Trezor all based off of one seed. to do this, you click "Enable Passphrases" in advanced settings. each time it asks you for the passphrase, enter in a different one, and you will generate multiple wallets. a different passphrase acts like an additional 25th word of the original 24 word seed thus creating a new wallet. you could deposit all your cold storage savings in one wallet then deposit 1-2 BTC in another. then if someone rubber hoses you simply reveal the passphrase to the 1-2 BTC wallet for plausible deniability. it's a clever little device.
now that you've posted this your denial is implausible, so I will use monkey wrench attack until I get at least 5 passwords from you (or you die). (sorry to put it that drastically. this is not really my plan, of course, just making a point)
If you want your money safe against such attack, you better have a component involved that you really "don't know" and that isn't "on you", like a seed in a safe somewhere. Shamirs secret sharing sounds like a good idea.
In the end, an attacker can always abduct a loved one and extort coins from you, no matter which way you have secured them.
There's nothing better for safety than a world in which everyone participates sufficiently in prosperity.
Why would you need multiple trezors?
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
If I did get one this is how I'd use it too. Keep the "cold" wallets off trezor and secured as backups only, and keep the "hot" wallet on trezor for daily use.
I should have qualified that with a conditional, multiple trezors might be useful in respect of back-up hardware, in case one fails or for spoof wallet, leave one around with a few millibits in it to hand over to thugs gubmint or otherwise, etc.
Yes, there are those useful purposes to having more than one. But you'd still have "unloaded" wallets for colder storage.
In end, what I really want is a single secure back-end that secures multiple wallets. Some wallets are "cold" and used as permanent storage and which are usually in a fully "offline" state. Some wallets are "hot" and used for daily spending with only nominal amounts loaded on them.
Today I can mostly replicate that with Armory. It sounds with current planned development Trezor+Armory front-end will be able to support that as well.
Why would you need multiple trezors?
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
If I did get one this is how I'd use it too. Keep the "cold" wallets off trezor and secured as backups only, and keep the "hot" wallet on trezor for daily use.
I should have qualified that with a conditional, multiple trezors might be useful in respect of back-up hardware, in case one fails or for spoof wallet, leave one around with a few millibits in it to hand over to thugs gubmint or otherwise, etc.
you don't need the backup hardware. just load the recovery seed into Mycelium. totally compatible.
Why would you need multiple trezors?
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
If I did get one this is how I'd use it too. Keep the "cold" wallets off trezor and secured as backups only, and keep the "hot" wallet on trezor for daily use.
I should have qualified that with a conditional, multiple trezors might be useful in respect of back-up hardware, in case one fails or for spoof wallet, leave one around with a few millibits in it to hand over to thugs gubmint or otherwise, etc.
Why would you need multiple trezors?
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
it gets even more complicated than this.
turns out, you can have multiple wallets loaded into the Trezor all based off of one seed. to do this, you click "Enable Passphrases" in advanced settings. each time it asks you for the passphrase, enter in a different one, and you will generate multiple wallets. a different passphrase acts like an additional 25th word of the original 24 word seed thus creating a new wallet. you could deposit all your cold storage savings in one wallet then deposit 1-2 BTC in another. then if someone rubber hoses you simply reveal the passphrase to the 1-2 BTC wallet for plausible deniability. it's a clever little device.
Why would you need multiple trezors?
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
If I did get one this is how I'd use it too. Keep the "cold" wallets off trezor and secured as backups only, and keep the "hot" wallet on trezor for daily use.
if SINGLE privkey is compromised from linear chain then ALL privkeys can be computed in same chain.
that's not right. you'd need more information, like the chain code if it's even possible, than just a single privkey from the chain.
you need the master seed and one privkey if I understand correctly. Not sure what kind of other information would be sufficient, but a single private key isn't.
shown here by Vitalik: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/8396/deterministic-wallets-advantages-flaw/
If you have the master seed can't you already generate every private key?
The main question is if you have just the private key for one or more addresses in a deterministic wallet, are the other addresses at risk or are they secure.
My understanding was they are still secure.
Why would you need multiple trezors?
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
The seed is the key, the trezor is like a blank that can be loaded with any key, wiped then loaded with a different key.
In fact having loaded trezors around is riskier than having an empty one with seeds stored elsewhere, off-site, divided up etc.
can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?
Out of curiosity, how do you guys plan on using your Trezor? I looked into them, like the idea and would like to get one, but couldn't see how a Trezor would fit into how I currently manage my BTC.
In my case I use Armory offline wallets for primary BTC storage, with secure HD seed backups so I'm confident I can always restore the wallets. For day to day usage I keep a small amount in Mycelium, and use this for buying pizza, etc. To fund Mycelium, in Armory I create spending addresses with a small amount of BTC and export the private key to Mycelium. The advantage to this is if I lose my phone, the BTC are recoverable in Armory or HD seed backups. The worse case is if someone steals and breaks my phone, I can only lose the amount on the phone (similar to cash in a real wallet). I like this method because: 1) I can store and use BTC on my phone without worrying about losing the coins because they are simultaneously in Armory (which is an awesome property of Bitcoin) and 2) Only a small amount are ever "at risk", with the majority secure in Armory.
Because of this I can't see how a Trezor would fit. So how do you guys use it?
I use the trezor for both secure long-term storage and also for day-to-day spending. I actually think it's at least as secure a any armory (or other solution running on multipurpose hardware)-based solution. It's the nice thing about trezor: it combines ease of use with extreme security. In conjunction with electrum (as an example) I can also use address-based coin control for increasing privacy.
Of course, for ordering pizza or making the odd donation I use mycelium. It's just way faster (I make a habit of unplugging the trezor after use) and scanning qr-codes from the screen and seeing the payment arrive a second later has something very special to it.
now i believe that is not right. i assume you have just one Trezor. why carry around your long term storage for daily spending? i assume it has a sizeable balance. think rubber hosing...
I admit I have multiple trezors.
thatta boy
can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?
Out of curiosity, how do you guys plan on using your Trezor? I looked into them, like the idea and would like to get one, but couldn't see how a Trezor would fit into how I currently manage my BTC.
In my case I use Armory offline wallets for primary BTC storage, with secure HD seed backups so I'm confident I can always restore the wallets. For day to day usage I keep a small amount in Mycelium, and use this for buying pizza, etc. To fund Mycelium, in Armory I create spending addresses with a small amount of BTC and export the private key to Mycelium. The advantage to this is if I lose my phone, the BTC are recoverable in Armory or HD seed backups. The worse case is if someone steals and breaks my phone, I can only lose the amount on the phone (similar to cash in a real wallet). I like this method because: 1) I can store and use BTC on my phone without worrying about losing the coins because they are simultaneously in Armory (which is an awesome property of Bitcoin) and 2) Only a small amount are ever "at risk", with the majority secure in Armory.
Because of this I can't see how a Trezor would fit. So how do you guys use it?
I use the trezor for both secure long-term storage and also for day-to-day spending. I actually think it's at least as secure a any armory (or other solution running on multipurpose hardware)-based solution. It's the nice thing about trezor: it combines ease of use with extreme security. In conjunction with electrum (as an example) I can also use address-based coin control for increasing privacy.
Of course, for ordering pizza or making the odd donation I use mycelium. It's just way faster (I make a habit of unplugging the trezor after use) and scanning qr-codes from the screen and seeing the payment arrive a second later has something very special to it.
now i believe that is not right. i assume you have just one Trezor. why carry around your long term storage for daily spending? i assume it has a sizeable balance. think rubber hosing...
I admit I have multiple trezors.
if SINGLE privkey is compromised from linear chain then ALL privkeys can be computed in same chain.
that's not right. you'd need more information, like the chain code if it's even possible, than just a single privkey from the chain.
you need the master seed and one privkey if I understand correctly. Not sure what kind of other information would be sufficient, but a single private key isn't.
shown here by Vitalik: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/8396/deterministic-wallets-advantages-flaw/
OK thanks. So you are using the Trezor as a full replacement for the offline secure storage. And with the planned Armory support will continue to use online Armory watching only wallets as your wallet, but use the Trezor for signing.
no. Trezor isn't ready yet to replace offline Armory storage. it can't communicate yet with the online watching wallet.
I got that, the Armory dev team still needs to make the changes.
But I thought in your prior note you said this was how you planned to use Trezor once that functionality was ready, or maybe I misread.
i wonder if another reason to avoid exporting Armory linear deterministic privkeys is if you reveal that privkey on your phone along with perhaps the master public key, can ALL your privkeys be determined similar to how it can be done with an xpub+childprivkey in HD wallets?
molecular would probably know.
molecular would probably know.
if SINGLE privkey is compromised from linear chain then ALL privkeys can be computed in same chain.
Are you sure? A type 1 wallet is the simplest and weakest, and even in this one knowing the private key of one address provides zero knowledge of other addresses, that is unless SHA256 is broken.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Deterministic_wallet
In this simple type you take (string + n) and then put that through SHA256 to get a priv key. Then increment n for each additional key. Knowing the priv key of one address provides zero knowledge of either the root string or increment n, these are the pieces of information needed to generate new keys. And this is for a Type 1, Type 2 which both BIP0032 and Armory are a form of is more secure.
The linear aspect does not mean a sequential set of priv key values. Instead the linear aspect is run through a non-reversible algorithm to generate the priv key, which protects the seed.
I think the advantage of type 2 HD wallets is you can generate a chain of both private and public keys. This enables you to create watching only wallets (which aren't possible with type 1). Here you can take "HD seed" -> generate "public seed" -> then generate "chain of public addresses", this has obvious benefits.
Ok, you are right. => If I can generate watching only wallets(I know all public keys) and I know 1 private key in this chain then I think I can compute all privkeys in this chain.
edit: or maybe I'm wrong.
HD seed is just a general term for any wallet where a single seed can be used to recover any number of addresses. Armory before has advertised itself as being the first "Hierarchical Deterministic Wallet", that is all I was referring too. Understand Armory uses a different type than BIP0032 today.
are you sure about this? HD is a very specific term to BIP32 afaik.
OK thanks. So you are using the Trezor as a full replacement for the offline secure storage. And with the planned Armory support will continue to use online Armory watching only wallets as your wallet, but use the Trezor for signing.
no. Trezor isn't ready yet to replace offline Armory storage. it can't communicate yet with the online watching wallet.
can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?
Out of curiosity, how do you guys plan on using your Trezor? I looked into them, like the idea and would like to get one, but couldn't see how a Trezor would fit into how I currently manage my BTC.
In my case I use Armory offline wallets for primary BTC storage, with secure HD seed backups so I'm confident I can always restore the wallets. For day to day usage I keep a small amount in Mycelium, and use this for buying pizza, etc. To fund Mycelium, in Armory I create spending addresses with a small amount of BTC and export the private key to Mycelium. The advantage to this is if I lose my phone, the BTC are recoverable in Armory or HD seed backups. The worse case is if someone steals and breaks my phone, I can only lose the amount on the phone (similar to cash in a real wallet). I like this method because: 1) I can store and use BTC on my phone without worrying about losing the coins because they are simultaneously in Armory (which is an awesome property of Bitcoin) and 2) Only a small amount are ever "at risk", with the majority secure in Armory.
Because of this I can't see how a Trezor would fit. So how do you guys use it?
I use the trezor for both secure long-term storage and also for day-to-day spending. I actually think it's at least as secure a any armory (or other solution running on multipurpose hardware)-based solution. It's the nice thing about trezor: it combines ease of use with extreme security. In conjunction with electrum (as an example) I can also use address-based coin control for increasing privacy.
Of course, for ordering pizza or making the odd donation I use mycelium. It's just way faster (I make a habit of unplugging the trezor after use) and scanning qr-codes from the screen and seeing the payment arrive a second later has something very special to it.
now i believe that is not right. i assume you have just one Trezor. why carry around your long term storage for daily spending? i assume it has a sizeable balance. think rubber hosing...
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