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Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 488. (Read 2032286 times)

legendary
Activity: 1133
Merit: 1163
Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos
February 20, 2015, 07:54:17 AM
"It is too risky for regular people. Too complicated to learn to use and secure properly." - this argument gets thrown around a lot and all I can think of when I hear it is:

"Something which forces people to turn on their brains, learn a new skill and take responsibility for some part of their lives? How is that a bad thing?"

Do we sit here and bemoan our opinion that "regular" people are too stupid? Or do we applaud the fact, that technology is forcing people to acquire new skills and evolve, as it has always done?

"Using Bitcoin will make you smarter" - there's a new meme for you

Agree with you, but there are also people in this world who are maybe not computer-illiterate, but very close to it. Be it because of their age, social status, whatever else  comes to mind.

Absolutely, there they are and there are many of them. The question in my mind is how did they get like that and do we want to keep them that way? But I think this is getting too far off-topic now.
uki
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
cryptojunk bag holder
February 20, 2015, 07:47:08 AM
"It is too risky for regular people. Too complicated to learn to use and secure properly." - this argument gets thrown around a lot and all I can think of when I hear it is:

"Something which forces people to turn on their brains, learn a new skill and take responsibility for some part of their lives? How is that a bad thing?"

Do we sit here and bemoan our opinion that "regular" people are too stupid? Or do we applaud the fact, that technology is forcing people to acquire new skills and evolve, as it has always done?

"Using Bitcoin will make you smarter" - there's a new meme for you

Agree with you, but there are also people in this world who are maybe not computer-illiterate, but very close to it. Be it because of their age, social status, whatever else  comes to mind. They are used to use fiat money and have absolutely no interest in changing that, because for them such a change means an unnecessary effort they have to do that makes their everyday life more complex than it is today. And I think that is quite considerable group of people that shouldn't be underestimated.
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 500
February 20, 2015, 04:20:52 AM
Still, it is not an invalid point. How will a large institution safeguard an enormous pile of Bitcoin value If all depends on a private key. Pointing this out as a negative will start the thinking about a positive: a solution.

It needs some more infrastructure, that's all.

I think you can secure it well dividing the bitcoins in a few addresses and using cold storage, bank safe, multi sig signature.
Nothing is 100% safe; big banks were just robbed 300 millions last week.
legendary
Activity: 1133
Merit: 1163
Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos
February 20, 2015, 04:14:33 AM
Still, it is not an invalid point. How will a large institution safeguard an enormous pile of Bitcoin value If all depends on a private key. Pointing this out as a negative will start the thinking about a positive: a solution.

It needs some more infrastructure, that's all.

To me, this is a wonderful example of new technology forcing intelligence into beneficial action. I agree, the point is valid - I just disagree with the conclusions the author of the zero hedge piece derived from it.
legendary
Activity: 3122
Merit: 1538
yes
February 20, 2015, 04:08:25 AM
Still, it is not an invalid point. How will a large institution safeguard an enormous pile of Bitcoin value If all depends on a private key. Pointing this out as a negative will start the thinking about a positive: a solution.

It needs some more infrastructure, that's all.
legendary
Activity: 1133
Merit: 1163
Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos
February 20, 2015, 04:03:33 AM
Smart People weighing in: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-19/guest-post-bitcoin-effete-act-rebellion

Unfortunately still missing the essence. It will take more time.

unbelievable how slow zerohedgers have been to grok bitcoin ... at least it wasn't buried in a cacophony of monkey-rattling cages, eventually they'll get it.

When/if the bull market returns, Zerohegers will be claiming to be early advocates even after dissing Bitcoin kind of like Stefan Molyneaux did. Gold bugs have a problem with Bitcoin being intangible because they have limited capacity for abstract thought. They also get some monetary theory wrong. They think money derives its unit of account and medium of exchange properties from it's store of value property. They get it backwards. Think about why we value dollars (absent the legal tender mandate) and this becomes obvious.

"It is too risky for regular people. Too complicated to learn to use and secure properly." - this argument gets thrown around a lot and all I can think of when I hear it is:

"Something which forces people to turn on their brains, learn a new skill and take responsibility for some part of their lives? How is that a bad thing?"

Do we sit here and bemoan our opinion that "regular" people are too stupid? Or do we applaud the fact, that technology is forcing people to acquire new skills and evolve, as it has always done?

"Using Bitcoin will make you smarter" - there's a new meme for you
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
February 20, 2015, 03:45:50 AM
Smart People weighing in: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-19/guest-post-bitcoin-effete-act-rebellion

Unfortunately still missing the essence. It will take more time.

unbelievable how slow zerohedgers have been to grok bitcoin ... at least it wasn't buried in a cacophony of monkey-rattling cages, eventually they'll get it.

When/if the bull market returns, Zerohegers will be claiming to be early advocates even after dissing Bitcoin kind of like Stefan Molyneaux did. Gold bugs have a problem with Bitcoin being intangible because they have limited capacity for abstract thought. They also get some monetary theory wrong. They think money derives its unit of account and medium of exchange properties from it's store of value property. They get it backwards. Think about why we value dollars (absent the legal tender mandate) and this becomes obvious.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
February 20, 2015, 03:36:20 AM
Smart People weighing in: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-19/guest-post-bitcoin-effete-act-rebellion

Unfortunately still missing the essence. It will take more time.

unbelievable how slow zerohedgers have been to grok bitcoin ... at least it wasn't buried in a cacophony of monkey-rattling cages, eventually they'll get it.
legendary
Activity: 3122
Merit: 1538
yes
February 20, 2015, 03:25:04 AM
Smart People weighing in: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-19/guest-post-bitcoin-effete-act-rebellion

Unfortunately still missing the essence. It will take more time.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
February 20, 2015, 02:30:08 AM
Did you guys see the Lenovo blow up today, this is on the order of Sony's rootkit fiasco.

yes, it's truly sickening.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11424248/GCHQs-mass-Internet-surveillance-ruled-unlawful.html

most of this was criminal behaviour at the time it happened, which explains the panic to rush through a lot of the more draconian and intrusive surveillance laws after the fact. Now if only we could find someone with enough moral fortitude to start prosecuting criminal behaviour of the spy agencies?
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
February 20, 2015, 02:05:34 AM
Did you guys see the Lenovo blow up today, this is on the order of Sony's rootkit fiasco.

yes, it's truly sickening.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
February 20, 2015, 02:05:02 AM
molecular:

can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?

yes, unfortunately. At least they're not using your xpub key to transfer addresses to watch, so they don't know your future keys (except the 5 or so per account they scan ahead).

you mean xpub key as it applies to an HD wallet (master public key)?  what do you mean "except the 5 or so per account they scan ahead"?



yes, exactly, the hd wallet master public key.

instead they send indidvidual addresses for watching to the server (not 100% sure, but I think that's what slush told me some time ago). Since the wallet doesn't know which addresses you gave out, it has to watch a couple of addresses that come after the last one that has received money. Maybe myTrezor watches all addresses it has displayed to the user or something along those lines, I'm not sure.


That's my biggest criticism with myTrezor and it's why I switched to electrum as soon as the development code had trezor working. It's not perfect with electrum, either, but better (I don't know exactly what, but they do some stuff to increase privacy towards server operators).

why would electrum be better in terms of privacy?

I've been meaning to research this. I'll let you know when I've come around to it.


I went to the hassle of running my own electrum server (public, of course, so I can hide in the masses when broadcasting transactions). Feel free to use it (electrum.0x0000.de), I'm not logging anything or looking at the traffic in any way.


how does one use electrum with the Trezor?

Use the electrum 2.0 beta, it has a trezor plugin. You will see the same wallet you see with myTrezor, both wallets can be used in parallel if you desire that.

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 20, 2015, 12:59:26 AM
Awesom,  awesome, awesome;

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 20, 2015, 12:48:33 AM
Gold Collapsing. Bitcoin bottoming.
this time gold got a punch again. If that is BTC-positive, that is another question.

I think we're getting our answer; UP.
legendary
Activity: 961
Merit: 1000
February 19, 2015, 10:03:11 PM
with all this unbelievable invasion of privacy and outright disregard for constitutional rights, one HAS to believe there is a future for Bitcoin.

It makes me wonder why the Laura Poitras doco about Snowden has not exploded. Perhaps the general view of Snowden in the US is still of him as an traitor to the country? But surely this SIM card corruption & Lenovo scandal will be the tipping point, as at this stage it is almost obvious to assume virtually no private information exchange is not being monitored.......Maybe the combination this, the SR coins almost being all sold off and the MSM changing its btc skepticism will leave enough of an opening for the market to move up.

It will be cool to look back and identify 'the point' at which it becomes clear that btc is here to stay.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 19, 2015, 07:10:41 PM
with all this unbelievable invasion of privacy and outright disregard for constitutional rights, one HAS to believe there is a future for Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1153
Merit: 1000
February 19, 2015, 06:51:54 PM
Did you guys see the Lenovo blow up today, this is on the order of Sony's rootkit fiasco.

Lenovo PCs ship with man-in-the-middle adware that breaks HTTPS connections
http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/02/lenovo-pcs-ship-with-man-in-the-middle-adware-that-breaks-https-connections/

At least with Lenovo I can choose not to deal with them. However when it comes to money I have to deal with FED dollars and banks like HSBC. Oh wait, no I don't  Wink

full member
Activity: 227
Merit: 103
Have faith.
February 19, 2015, 06:26:34 PM
somehow we have to pin this on Bitcoin:

If past HSBC transgressions are any indication, the amount of corrupted cash flowing through U.S. financial institutions could be absolutely startling. The aforementioned 2013 Senate report noted that HSBC allowed over $200 trillion in wire transfers to enter the U.S. unmonitored over a three-year period, including $670 billion in wire transfers from Mexico and at least $881 million in laundered money from Mexican and Columbian drug traffickers. In December 2012, HSBC agreed to pay a $1.92 billion settlement to federal and state authorities for failing to maintain an adequate AML program.

http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/beneficial-ownership-rules-would-drag-criminals-into-daylight-1072763-1.html#comments

The banks chairman when this all happened resigned as soon as the shit hit the fan and then became the trade minister for UK.

Hsbc (Britain biggest bank and words 2nd biggest ) was fined 4 weeks profit (1.9 billion) for:
* laundering 9 billion dollars for mexican and columbian drug gangs,  Russian gangs
* having 50,000 client accounts and £2.1bn in holdings, but had no staff or offices in cayman island branch
* 25,000 transactions involving Iran worth over $19billion (£12billion) through HBUS and other US accounts, while concealing any link with Iran
* evade sanctions for Libya, Sudan, north Korea, Cuba, Myanmar,
* dealing with Al Rajhi Bank, which the report said has links to financing terrorism.
* aided countless common tax cheats in hiding their cash

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/gangster-bankers-too-big-to-jail-20130214#ixzz3SEkGyUVa


 Also straight afterwards the UK started work on changing the law to have US style "deferred prosecution agreements" in place. In practice is nothing else as 2 different laws for the same crime. If you commit it as a company you buy bribe your way out of it, as private person to get jail time.
http://www.sfo.gov.uk/about-us/our-policies-and-publications/deferred-prosecution-agreements-code-of-practice-and-consultation-response.aspx
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 19, 2015, 06:22:06 PM
crimony.  what a nightmare:

The U.S. and British intelligence agencies pulled off the encryption key heist in great stealth, giving them the ability to intercept and decrypt communications without alerting the wireless network provider, the foreign government or the individual user that they have been targeted. “Gaining access to a database of keys is pretty much game over for cellular encryption,” says Matthew Green, a cryptography specialist at the Johns Hopkins Information Security Institute. The massive key theft is “bad news for phone security. Really bad news.”

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/19/great-sim-heist/
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 19, 2015, 06:20:00 PM
somehow we have to pin this on Bitcoin:

If past HSBC transgressions are any indication, the amount of corrupted cash flowing through U.S. financial institutions could be absolutely startling. The aforementioned 2013 Senate report noted that HSBC allowed over $200 trillion in wire transfers to enter the U.S. unmonitored over a three-year period, including $670 billion in wire transfers from Mexico and at least $881 million in laundered money from Mexican and Columbian drug traffickers. In December 2012, HSBC agreed to pay a $1.92 billion settlement to federal and state authorities for failing to maintain an adequate AML program.

http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/beneficial-ownership-rules-would-drag-criminals-into-daylight-1072763-1.html#comments

... this is the kind of money that will inevitably start coursing through bitcoins veins in the not too distant future.

that's a great image.
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