Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 489.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: molecular on February 19, 2015, 05:31:44 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 04:21:56 PM

molecular:

can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?

yes, unfortunately. At least they're not using your xpub key to transfer addresses to watch, so they don't know your future keys (except the 5 or so per account they scan ahead).

you mean xpub key as it applies to an HD wallet (master public key)? what do you mean "except the 5 or so per account they scan ahead"?

Quote

That's my biggest criticism with myTrezor and it's why I switched to electrum as soon as the development code had trezor working. It's not perfect with electrum, either, but better (I don't know exactly what, but they do some stuff to increase privacy towards server operators).

why would electrum be better in terms of privacy?

Quote

I went to the hassle of running my own electrum server (public, of course, so I can hide in the masses when broadcasting transactions). Feel free to use it (electrum.0x0000.de), I'm not logging anything or looking at the traffic in any way.

how does one use electrum with the Trezor?

Odalv

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Quote from: molecular on February 19, 2015, 05:31:44 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 04:21:56 PM

molecular:

can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?

yes, unfortunately. At least they're not using your xpub key to transfer addresses to watch, so they don't know your future keys (except the 5 or so per account they scan ahead).

That's my biggest criticism with myTrezor and it's why I switched to electrum as soon as the development code had trezor working. It's not perfect with electrum, either, but better (I don't know exactly what, but they do some stuff to increase privacy towards server operators).

I went to the hassle of running my own electrum server (public, of course, so I can hide in the masses when broadcasting transactions). Feel free to use it (electrum.0x0000.de), I'm not logging anything or looking at the traffic in any way.

Cypherdoc, you can trust him. :-)

Edit:
If you are not logging the traffic and analyzing it then it is only a question of time when you will be hacked.

molecular

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Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 04:21:56 PM

molecular:

can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?

yes, unfortunately. At least they're not using your xpub key to transfer addresses to watch, so they don't know your future keys (except the 5 or so per account they scan ahead).

That's my biggest criticism with myTrezor and it's why I switched to electrum as soon as the development code had trezor working. It's not perfect with electrum, either, but better (I don't know exactly what, but they do some stuff to increase privacy towards server operators).

I went to the hassle of running my own electrum server (public, of course, so I can hide in the masses when broadcasting transactions). Feel free to use it (electrum.0x0000.de), I'm not logging anything or looking at the traffic in any way.

rocks

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Quote from: thezerg on February 19, 2015, 05:07:57 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 03:28:00 PM

somehow we have to pin this on Bitcoin:

If past HSBC transgressions are any indication, the amount of corrupted cash flowing through U.S. financial institutions could be absolutely startling. The aforementioned 2013 Senate report noted that HSBC allowed over $200 trillion in wire transfers to enter the U.S. unmonitored over a three-year period, including $670 billion in wire transfers from Mexico and at least $881 million in laundered money from Mexican and Columbian drug traffickers. In December 2012, HSBC agreed to pay a $1.92 billion settlement to federal and state authorities for failing to maintain an adequate AML program.

http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/beneficial-ownership-rules-would-drag-criminals-into-daylight-1072763-1.html#comments

Yes, for many of us its not that we are against regulation; if there was a magic oracle that correctly flagged money transfers that occur for illegal purposes then ok let's use it. But the reality is that regulation simply sets the bar higher, encouraging the formation of organizations that can pay big bribes, hire smart lawyers, money managers, etc. In other words, cartels. Better to have no money laundering regulation than a fantasy situation that only inconveniences honest people/businesses. People and businesses whose profit margins are much smaller so they can't purchase the money managers and lawyers required to deal with the regs.

It is the exact same in any industry, not just financials. Regulation always leads to a cozy relationship between regulators and industry that results in industry consolidation to a few large entities (i.e. an oligopoly) that transforms into a protection mechanism for established companies to build a regulatory moat and protect their interests.

In some sense modern regulation looks very similar to the various merchant and craft guilds from medieval times. Merchant guilds worked with feudal lords (the government) to establish regulations over market activity and tax smaller members, over time they became quite powerful in their own right. It's exactly what we have today.

Odalv

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Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 04:21:56 PM

molecular:

can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?

Everything is possible.

thezerg

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Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 03:28:00 PM

somehow we have to pin this on Bitcoin:

If past HSBC transgressions are any indication, the amount of corrupted cash flowing through U.S. financial institutions could be absolutely startling. The aforementioned 2013 Senate report noted that HSBC allowed over $200 trillion in wire transfers to enter the U.S. unmonitored over a three-year period, including $670 billion in wire transfers from Mexico and at least $881 million in laundered money from Mexican and Columbian drug traffickers. In December 2012, HSBC agreed to pay a $1.92 billion settlement to federal and state authorities for failing to maintain an adequate AML program.

http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/beneficial-ownership-rules-would-drag-criminals-into-daylight-1072763-1.html#comments

Yes, for many of us its not that we are against regulation; if there was a magic oracle that correctly flagged money transfers that occur for illegal purposes then ok let's use it. But the reality is that regulation simply sets the bar higher, encouraging the formation of organizations that can pay big bribes, hire smart lawyers, money managers, etc. In other words, cartels. Better to have no money laundering regulation than a fantasy situation that only inconveniences honest people/businesses. People and businesses whose profit margins are much smaller so they can't purchase the money managers and lawyers required to deal with the regs.

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 03:07:21 PM

Quote from: Pruden on February 19, 2015, 02:40:19 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 12:24:25 PM

you don't know it was FAKE FIAT.

gox could've been buying on behalf of a large whale. plus, volumes on Chinese exchanges were large at the time.

Yeah, buying when trading was closed, great way to give the whales a good price. Roll Eyes

Between your hypothesis and Karpeles trying to make a quick buck even while he ruined Bitcoin for years, my gut makes a clear choice.

that's not my hypothesis. it's just a possibility i'm pointing out to counterbalance what NHJT said.

no doubt shady shit was going on, which is precisely why i tell ppl it would've been almost impossible to cash out at the top unless you had insider connections since getting fiat out of gox was next to impossible at the time and for sure extremely risky. when i queried MK on IRC at the time when we touched gold @1200 about his ability to wire USD as there were delays, he tried to lure me into sending BTC for this purpose by telling me he might do me a special favor. i lol'd and never did as that was a huge red flag and something to be avoided given all the delays everyone else was having.

Yes, in retrospect we didn't touch gold. ~1050 was the highest price you could cash out at (bitstamp).

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 03:28:00 PM

somehow we have to pin this on Bitcoin:

If past HSBC transgressions are any indication, the amount of corrupted cash flowing through U.S. financial institutions could be absolutely startling. The aforementioned 2013 Senate report noted that HSBC allowed over $200 trillion in wire transfers to enter the U.S. unmonitored over a three-year period, including $670 billion in wire transfers from Mexico and at least $881 million in laundered money from Mexican and Columbian drug traffickers. In December 2012, HSBC agreed to pay a $1.92 billion settlement to federal and state authorities for failing to maintain an adequate AML program.

http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/beneficial-ownership-rules-would-drag-criminals-into-daylight-1072763-1.html#comments

... this is the kind of money that will inevitably start coursing through bitcoins veins in the not too distant future.

cypherdoc

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molecular:

can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?

Bagatell

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Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 03:28:00 PM

somehow we have to pin this on Bitcoin:

The supernintendo is working on it, with them..whatever.

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

somehow we have to pin this on Bitcoin:

If past HSBC transgressions are any indication, the amount of corrupted cash flowing through U.S. financial institutions could be absolutely startling. The aforementioned 2013 Senate report noted that HSBC allowed over $200 trillion in wire transfers to enter the U.S. unmonitored over a three-year period, including $670 billion in wire transfers from Mexico and at least $881 million in laundered money from Mexican and Columbian drug traffickers. In December 2012, HSBC agreed to pay a $1.92 billion settlement to federal and state authorities for failing to maintain an adequate AML program.

http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/beneficial-ownership-rules-would-drag-criminals-into-daylight-1072763-1.html#comments

jsuder

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┗(°0°)┛

Quote from: Melbustus on February 19, 2015, 01:42:48 PM

Thanks for the clarification. This is tough for me. On one hand, I absolutely think solid wallet software should be on as many platforms as possible. But on the other hand, if the company (or even just the brand) backing that wallet has what I consider a fundamentally destructive attitude (and even outright objective, as Wendell's quote is pretty aggressive/vehement), the negatives of such a brand gaining more traction probably outweigh the positives.

In any event, I do appreciate you making the distinction (both here and on Reddit) between your project and views, and Hive as a company. Perhaps you'd consider re-branding away from Hive?

That's a nuclear option that will always be on the table, to be used when the disadvantages start outnumbering the advantages, but I'm not there yet.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Pruden on February 19, 2015, 02:40:19 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 12:24:25 PM

you don't know it was FAKE FIAT.

gox could've been buying on behalf of a large whale. plus, volumes on Chinese exchanges were large at the time.

Yeah, buying when trading was closed, great way to give the whales a good price. Roll Eyes

Between your hypothesis and Karpeles trying to make a quick buck even while he ruined Bitcoin for years, my gut makes a clear choice.

that's not my hypothesis. it's just a possibility i'm pointing out to counterbalance what NHJT said.

no doubt shady shit was going on, which is precisely why i tell ppl it would've been almost impossible to cash out at the top unless you had insider connections since getting fiat out of gox was next to impossible at the time and for sure extremely risky. when i queried MK on IRC at the time when we touched gold @1200 about his ability to wire USD as there were delays, he tried to lure me into sending BTC for this purpose by telling me he might do me a special favor. i lol'd and never did as that was a huge red flag and something to be avoided given all the delays everyone else was having.

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: HeliKopterBen on February 19, 2015, 02:38:51 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: NotHatinJustTrollin on February 19, 2015, 11:40:37 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 11:17:22 AM

Quote from: NotHatinJustTrollin on February 19, 2015, 09:45:10 AM

Quote from: L0uis on February 19, 2015, 09:01:38 AM

http://newsbtc.com/2015/02/19/independent-investigators-find-fresh-details-mt-gox/

Interesting:

"Another interesting fact that caught Wizsec’s eyes was the Willy’s static nature during the Japanese sleeping hours. The Mt. Gox bot was supposed to be automatic, but as it turns out there was hardly any trading activity. This speculation multiplied the belief that the bot was actually being controlled manually — probably by Mark Karpeles."

http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/05/27/mtgox-willy-markus/

I follow this guy on twitter and I admire him, but the article doesn't make much sense:

"For a pump and dump, there has to be a quick pump (buy action) to generate mass momentum, followed by a dump.
In this case, there was no quick pump; the buy orders were deliberately smeared across a very long time period. And there was no dump until the very end stage.
It's as simple as that. No fast pump, no dump, therefore not a pump and dump."

^^^What? This is false. A pump&dump doesn't have to be executed quickly to be a pump&dump, unless we are talking half a year to a year. The $1200 pump lasted two to three months. 2-3 months is a small time frame for a pump of that magnitude.

Large buys like those WILL have a BIG impact on the price, whether made in smaller chunks or not (impossible to buy that quantity of coins in a few market buys, literally impossible).

Also, is the author completely ignoring the fact that one of the mtgox bots (markus I believe) was buying with FAKE FIAT (amounts of money mtgox didn't actually have)? He didn't mention that.
Markus bought a gigantic quantity of BTC basically for free and Emin argues that that doesn't indicate any fraudulent activity?

you don't know it was FAKE FIAT.

gox could've been buying on behalf of a large whale. plus, volumes on Chinese exchanges were large at the time.

What about all the bots shorting the market now with FAKE BITCOIN.

I don't really believe in market manipulation on a wide scale, especially since we have a publicly verifiable blockchain, but it could be happening.

yes, it could be. i'm suspicious of BitFinex. an audit of them would be worthwhile.

i'd love for naked shorts to be caught with their pants down, if it is occurring, and watch them scramble for a bailout in fiat.

Pruden

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Activity: 496

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Spanish Bitcoin trader

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 12:24:25 PM

you don't know it was FAKE FIAT.

gox could've been buying on behalf of a large whale. plus, volumes on Chinese exchanges were large at the time.

Yeah, buying when trading was closed, great way to give the whales a good price. Roll Eyes

Between your hypothesis and Karpeles trying to make a quick buck even while he ruined Bitcoin for years, my gut makes a clear choice.

HeliKopterBen

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Activity: 622

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Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: NotHatinJustTrollin on February 19, 2015, 11:40:37 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 11:17:22 AM

Quote from: NotHatinJustTrollin on February 19, 2015, 09:45:10 AM

Quote from: L0uis on February 19, 2015, 09:01:38 AM

http://newsbtc.com/2015/02/19/independent-investigators-find-fresh-details-mt-gox/

Interesting:

"Another interesting fact that caught Wizsec’s eyes was the Willy’s static nature during the Japanese sleeping hours. The Mt. Gox bot was supposed to be automatic, but as it turns out there was hardly any trading activity. This speculation multiplied the belief that the bot was actually being controlled manually — probably by Mark Karpeles."

http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/05/27/mtgox-willy-markus/

I follow this guy on twitter and I admire him, but the article doesn't make much sense:

"For a pump and dump, there has to be a quick pump (buy action) to generate mass momentum, followed by a dump.
In this case, there was no quick pump; the buy orders were deliberately smeared across a very long time period. And there was no dump until the very end stage.
It's as simple as that. No fast pump, no dump, therefore not a pump and dump."

^^^What? This is false. A pump&dump doesn't have to be executed quickly to be a pump&dump, unless we are talking half a year to a year. The $1200 pump lasted two to three months. 2-3 months is a small time frame for a pump of that magnitude.

Large buys like those WILL have a BIG impact on the price, whether made in smaller chunks or not (impossible to buy that quantity of coins in a few market buys, literally impossible).

Also, is the author completely ignoring the fact that one of the mtgox bots (markus I believe) was buying with FAKE FIAT (amounts of money mtgox didn't actually have)? He didn't mention that.
Markus bought a gigantic quantity of BTC basically for free and Emin argues that that doesn't indicate any fraudulent activity?

you don't know it was FAKE FIAT.

gox could've been buying on behalf of a large whale. plus, volumes on Chinese exchanges were large at the time.

What about all the bots shorting the market now with FAKE BITCOIN.

I don't really believe in market manipulation on a wide scale, especially since we have a publicly verifiable blockchain, but it could be happening.

rocks

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Activity: 1153

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Quote from: ErisDiscordia on February 19, 2015, 12:56:06 PM

As you can see, there are many splendid reasons for the collectivist to choose from. I'll add another big one: the fear of watching the outsider succeed. When you've lived your life according to what your parents, teachers, priests and peers have told you - you might have a safe spot in society and respect of your peers. Yet at the same time feel like you've wasted your potential. Not lived up to what could have been. Didn't do that round the world trip or write that book. So when you see someone trying to forfeit the cozy spot in society and the respect of their peers in order to try and grasp that singular, unique something their heart desires...you want them to fail. Because if they should succeed, it throws your whole life and what you have achieved into grave doubt and makes you question your self-image. And if there is one thing we can't bear to part with it is our illusions about ourselves.

Good point. This article, from theAtlantic of all places, touches on a similar vein.

The Rage of the Almost-Elite
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/the-rage-of-the-almost-elite/247638/

solex

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100 satoshis -> ISO code

Quote from: ErisDiscordia on February 19, 2015, 12:56:06 PM

As you can see, there are many splendid reasons for the collectivist to choose from. I'll add another big one: the fear of watching the outsider succeed. When you've lived your life according to what your parents, teachers, priests and peers have told you - you might have a safe spot in society and respect of your peers. Yet at the same time feel like you've wasted your potential. Not lived up to what could have been. Didn't do that round the world trip or write that book. So when you see someone trying to forfeit the cozy spot in society and the respect of their peers in order to try and grasp that singular, unique something their heart desires...you want them to fail. Because if they should succeed, it throws your whole life and what you have achieved into grave doubt and makes you question your self-image. And if there is one thing we can't bear to part with it is our illusions about ourselves.

Personally speaking, it is gems like this which makes reading the internet so rewarding.

NotHatinJustTrollin

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★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: NotHatinJustTrollin on February 19, 2015, 11:40:37 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 19, 2015, 11:17:22 AM

Quote from: NotHatinJustTrollin on February 19, 2015, 09:45:10 AM

Quote from: L0uis on February 19, 2015, 09:01:38 AM

http://newsbtc.com/2015/02/19/independent-investigators-find-fresh-details-mt-gox/

Interesting:

"Another interesting fact that caught Wizsec’s eyes was the Willy’s static nature during the Japanese sleeping hours. The Mt. Gox bot was supposed to be automatic, but as it turns out there was hardly any trading activity. This speculation multiplied the belief that the bot was actually being controlled manually — probably by Mark Karpeles."

http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/05/27/mtgox-willy-markus/

I follow this guy on twitter and I admire him, but the article doesn't make much sense:

"For a pump and dump, there has to be a quick pump (buy action) to generate mass momentum, followed by a dump.
In this case, there was no quick pump; the buy orders were deliberately smeared across a very long time period. And there was no dump until the very end stage.
It's as simple as that. No fast pump, no dump, therefore not a pump and dump."

^^^What? This is false. A pump&dump doesn't have to be executed quickly to be a pump&dump, unless we are talking half a year to a year. The $1200 pump lasted two to three months. 2-3 months is a small time frame for a pump of that magnitude.

Large buys like those WILL have a BIG impact on the price, whether made in smaller chunks or not (impossible to buy that quantity of coins in a few market buys, literally impossible).

Also, is the author completely ignoring the fact that one of the mtgox bots (markus I believe) was buying with FAKE FIAT (amounts of money mtgox didn't actually have)? He didn't mention that.
Markus bought a gigantic quantity of BTC basically for free and Emin argues that that doesn't indicate any fraudulent activity?

you don't know it was FAKE FIAT.

gox could've been buying on behalf of a large whale. plus, volumes on Chinese exchanges were large at the time.

You're right, it's possible, but the whole thing is shady as hell. One of the bots was not paying fees, the other one was, one was paying with money technically not in the exchange, the other was not. The fact that the bot was active even when trading was closed to anybody else... etc.
It's possible it was a bot for wealthy clients that had favours, but many things don't add up.

Police is investigating and their findings and statements just add the the whole shadiness:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-theft-mtgox-was-inside-job-according-police-1481599

In his article, Emin was basically saying that the willy report's findings are not a big deal and not an indication that the bot actions were manipulative. While we clearly don't have conclusive evidence, I would say we have few indications that something was not quite right.

Melbustus

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Quote from: jsuder on February 19, 2015, 11:38:01 AM

Quote from: Melbustus on February 19, 2015, 11:01:17 AM

Hive wallet is running a Bitcoin crowdfunding campaign on Lighthouse: https://mac.hivewallet.com/crowdfunding/

That's funny, cuz the CEO of Hive doesn't think Bitcoin should be valuable, nor considered money:

If you read the crowdfunding info page (specifically "Why Lighthouse?"), it says there that I'm really doing this independently. I'm collaborating with Hive Labs to some extent, and we're keeping this under the same brand, but technically I no longer work for Hive Labs, that's why I need another way to fund the development.

Thanks for the clarification. This is tough for me. On one hand, I absolutely think solid wallet software should be on as many platforms as possible. But on the other hand, if the company (or even just the brand) backing that wallet has what I consider a fundamentally destructive attitude (and even outright objective, as Wendell's quote is pretty aggressive/vehement), the negatives of such a brand gaining more traction probably outweigh the positives.

In any event, I do appreciate you making the distinction (both here and on Reddit) between your project and views, and Hive as a company. Perhaps you'd consider re-branding away from Hive?

Bagatell

hero member

Activity: 722

Merit: 500

The fear of the farmer when he realizes the flock is smarter than he is.

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 489. (Read 2032286 times)