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Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 508. (Read 2032286 times)

legendary
Activity: 1153
Merit: 1000
February 04, 2015, 04:33:48 PM

It is a segment with small government and anti-FED sentiment, that is also non-technical. That is a good segment to target. If bitpay can use this to get a few hundred more small independent businesses to accept bitcoin that's a win in my book. Don't really care about the ROI to bitpay's investors...
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 04, 2015, 03:50:15 PM
ECB Pulls The Trigger: Blocks Funding To Greece - Full Statement

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-04/ecb-pulls-trigger-blocks-funding-greece
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
legendary
Activity: 1153
Merit: 1000
February 04, 2015, 03:02:27 PM
Bitcoin coming to NASCAR. More advertising, more infrastructure in place.

http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/04/bitpay-coming-to-nascar-on-justin-bostons-kbm-truck-at-daytona/
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 04, 2015, 03:00:11 PM
Finex bouncing
legendary
Activity: 1153
Merit: 1000
February 04, 2015, 02:41:30 PM
What is heartbreaking to read in this history, is instead of learning from their mistakes and return to a decentralized and market based system that worked, FDR doubled down and created regulations in the place of market forces and banned individual ownership of money, and he was cheered for it. This is the moment America choose security over freedom and when the experiment failed IMHO.

"If a problem seems intractable, enlarge it"

This is a commonplace government solution method, and it is often how we get bigger governments.

The point to this long winded post is paper backed gold can (and did) work, it's just that it requires a decentralized system that can withstand individual failures and uses market forces to keep honesty. Sound familiar?

More recently, the Liberty Dollar.  A gold and silver backed ledger using warehouse receipts, audited monthly.  All the audits were perfect and showed zero leverage.  The US federal government could not believe that someone would actually do this (because they don't) and so accused it of fraud and counterfeiting and conspiracy.  As it turned out there wasn't any fraud, and after fighting the case for the last 6 years, the government is finally returning the gold and silver.

Isn't there a saying along the lines of to a thief everyone looks like a criminal?

Haven't followed the Liberty Dollar case closely. Were they convicted of anything? If not, are the courts going to let them operate again, or return their property but still ban them from operating "just because"?

"If a problem seems intractable, enlarge it"

It was also the approach used in 2008 to a debt problem, create 100% more debt to fix it despite the fact the private market clearly wanted no more.
legendary
Activity: 1153
Merit: 1000
February 04, 2015, 02:34:58 PM
...
Yes Bitcoin provides a superior SoV function, but it has a superior Payment-Function to fiat and that is what will slowly win over individuals. Essentially Bitcoin provides all the benefits of fiat ledger money with the benefits of direct control/interaction (no middlemen), this combined with personal computing creates a vastly superior Payment-Function, which is what will drive adoption.
...

Bitcoin has a superior payment function *right now*. In theory, there's nothing preventing a cheap, global, fiat payment system except rent-seeking and politics. Granted those are strong forces, but in the face of enough competitive pressure from Bitcoin, the legacy system will be spurred to improve. That may already be happening as a direct result of Bitcoin, if you read between the lines of the Fed's recent payment-system-improvement paper.

So I think we need to expect that the legacy payment system is going to get a lot better quickly. Bitcoin will still have many broader payment-sys advantages (eg, no international friction, immunity to capital controls, etc), but the day-to-day "save 3% on CCs", or "don't wait 3 days for an EFT" arguments are going to be moot at some point in the not too distant future. Best to be conscious of that now in order to focus efforts where BTC has the longrun advantage.

Good points, fully agree.

The challenge for the FED though is even if they fully see Bitcoin for the threat it is and take an "all hands on deck" approach to completely revamp the current dollar system to better compete with Bitcoin, what will hinder them are the mountains of regulations they and their banking partners have created (ironically to entrench their position).

Sure the FED could create a Bitcoin style direct access for the dollar, but will anybody be able to directly access it? Or will the next changetip be required to go through mountains of regulatory approval requiring millions in startup funding that does not go directly to product development?

The other challenge for the FED is cross boarder transactions, which are critical in our multi-national world today. The FED can only create a US centric dollar, while Bitcoin is global. Humanity wants a single unit of money. The FED can only address this by assuming the dollar is the global unit of account, which it is today but many countries want off.

What Bitcoin has going for it is that it is censorship resistant and governments know they cannot control it. If it was in any possible to control Bitcoin the US government would have already shut it down the same as other attempts such as the Liberty Dollar.

Your point though is Bitcoin will start to see real competition, which is a good thing. That competition is why I think Bitcoin needs the ability to improve functionality over time through market based approaches (not centralized developers). This is why I think some form of SCs could be useful (if properly/carefully implemented, not Blockstream's approach), a good version of SCs could enable Bitcoin to extend it's functionality in a market based fashion, and compete with an aggressive FED. I've come around somewhat to Adrian's and cypherdoc's view though that the current Blockstream approach is at best not fully understood and more likely a threat to bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
February 04, 2015, 02:26:22 PM
cryptocurrencies are pump&dumps, but bitcoin is the worst because it is making the biggest damage compared to their little peers Smiley

Bitcoin is already changing everything.  look at the fiat currency mkts.  shambles.
sr. member
Activity: 384
Merit: 250
full member
Activity: 462
Merit: 107
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
February 04, 2015, 02:13:46 PM
cryptocurrencies are pump&dumps, but bitcoin is the worst because it is making the biggest damage compared to their little peers Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
February 04, 2015, 12:42:43 PM
What is heartbreaking to read in this history, is instead of learning from their mistakes and return to a decentralized and market based system that worked, FDR doubled down and created regulations in the place of market forces and banned individual ownership of money, and he was cheered for it. This is the moment America choose security over freedom and when the experiment failed IMHO.

"If a problem seems intractable, enlarge it"

This is a commonplace government solution method, and it is often how we get bigger governments.

The point to this long winded post is paper backed gold can (and did) work, it's just that it requires a decentralized system that can withstand individual failures and uses market forces to keep honesty. Sound familiar?

More recently, the Liberty Dollar.  A gold and silver backed ledger using warehouse receipts, audited monthly.  All the audits were perfect and showed zero leverage.  The US federal government could not believe that someone would actually do this (because they don't) and so accused it of fraud and counterfeiting and conspiracy.  As it turned out there wasn't any fraud, and after fighting the case for the last 6 years, the government is finally returning the gold and silver.
legendary
Activity: 961
Merit: 1000
February 04, 2015, 09:25:07 AM
global economies trending up so oil and gold trend down.  I wish I had a Million dollars to buy oil right now... could be so rich when the price goes back up and we all know it will

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-03/another-conspiracy-theory-becomes-fact-entire-oil-collapse-all-about-crushing-russia

hmm i was more into the theory about saudi arabia (or even russia?!) crushing oil to fuck with USA and their shale gas investments.

Who knows, geopolitics is like a real life Inception!
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
February 04, 2015, 09:17:43 AM
global economies trending up so oil and gold trend down.  I wish I had a Million dollars to buy oil right now... could be so rich when the price goes back up and we all know it will

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-03/another-conspiracy-theory-becomes-fact-entire-oil-collapse-all-about-crushing-russia

hmm i was more into the theory about saudi arabia (or even russia?!) crushing oil to fuck with USA and their shale gas investments.
legendary
Activity: 961
Merit: 1000
February 04, 2015, 09:11:25 AM
global economies trending up so oil and gold trend down.  I wish I had a Million dollars to buy oil right now... could be so rich when the price goes back up and we all know it will

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-03/another-conspiracy-theory-becomes-fact-entire-oil-collapse-all-about-crushing-russia
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
February 04, 2015, 08:52:45 AM
global economies trending up so oil and gold trend down.  I wish I had a Million dollars to buy oil right now... could be so rich when the price goes back up and we all know it will
dont be so sure
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
February 04, 2015, 02:54:59 AM
global economies trending up so oil and gold trend down.  I wish I had a Million dollars to buy oil right now... could be so rich when the price goes back up and we all know it will

you could gain what? 100%?
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 1031
February 04, 2015, 01:48:05 AM
global economies trending up so oil and gold trend down.  I wish I had a Million dollars to buy oil right now... could be so rich when the price goes back up and we all know it will
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1004
February 04, 2015, 01:41:02 AM
...
Yes Bitcoin provides a superior SoV function, but it has a superior Payment-Function to fiat and that is what will slowly win over individuals. Essentially Bitcoin provides all the benefits of fiat ledger money with the benefits of direct control/interaction (no middlemen), this combined with personal computing creates a vastly superior Payment-Function, which is what will drive adoption.
...


Bitcoin has a superior payment function *right now*. In theory, there's nothing preventing a cheap, global, fiat payment system except rent-seeking and politics. Granted those are strong forces, but in the face of enough competitive pressure from Bitcoin, the legacy system will be spurred to improve. That may already be happening as a direct result of Bitcoin, if you read between the lines of the Fed's recent payment-system-improvement paper.

So I think we need to expect that the legacy payment system is going to get a lot better quickly. Bitcoin will still have many broader payment-sys advantages (eg, no international friction, immunity to capital controls, etc), but the day-to-day "save 3% on CCs", or "don't wait 3 days for an EFT" arguments are going to be moot at some point in the not too distant future. Best to be conscious of that now in order to focus efforts where BTC has the longrun advantage.
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