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Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 725. (Read 2032266 times)

sr. member
Activity: 404
Merit: 362
in bitcoin we trust
November 12, 2014, 07:53:39 PM
How much did David Chaum have solved at Digicash/eCash?

Some of the notes on the relevant wikipedia pages suggest he had double-spending solved:

Quote
...
Depending on the payment transactions, one distinguishes between on-line and off-line electronic cash: If the payee has to contact a third party (e.g., the bank or the credit-card company acting as an acquirer) before accepting a payment, the system is called an on-line system.[2] In 1990, Chaum together with Naor proposed the first off-line e-cash system, which was also based on blind signatures.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecash


Quote
In 1988, he extended this idea (with Amos Fiat and Moni Naor) to prevent double-spending.[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chaum


Anyone have any more info on this? Was eCash's remaining problem merely initial-coin distribution, or was BGP actually not (practically) 'solved' despite the above?

I moved the question and my comments on it into another thread in dev/tech section https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9526439 as its not really to do with speculation nor gold, though an interesting question!

Adam
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1004
November 12, 2014, 07:00:01 PM
How much did David Chaum have solved at Digicash/eCash?

Some of the notes on the relevant wikipedia pages suggest he had double-spending solved:

Quote
...
Depending on the payment transactions, one distinguishes between on-line and off-line electronic cash: If the payee has to contact a third party (e.g., the bank or the credit-card company acting as an acquirer) before accepting a payment, the system is called an on-line system.[2] In 1990, Chaum together with Naor proposed the first off-line e-cash system, which was also based on blind signatures.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecash


Quote
In 1988, he extended this idea (with Amos Fiat and Moni Naor) to prevent double-spending.[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chaum


Anyone have any more info on this? Was eCash's remaining problem merely initial-coin distribution, or was BGP actually not (practically) 'solved' despite the above?
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1004
November 12, 2014, 06:23:40 PM
The rising price hasn't lifted my spirits much at all.
Still reeling from this bad news.  (Bad for gold, bad for Bitcoin)
http://news.goldseek.com/GATA/1415649749.php
...
http://www.gata.org/files/VonNotHausOrder-Nov-10-2014.pdf

In which Judge Voorhees writes about my friend Bernard von NotHaus, one of the inspirations for Satoshi...
A quote from the previous horrible case Gellman v US:

Quote
"The United States has the sole power to coin money under the Constitution, and if anyone, individual or
State, assumes to supplant the medium of exchange adopted by our Government,
or assumes to compete with the United States Government in this regard, a
violation of these statutes would follow. Undoubtedly, no one can interfere with
the monopoly which this Government has obtained by reason of the
Constitutional provisions without running afoul of these statutes"
...
Whether the rationale
set forth in Gellman is adopted or not, the Court finds that under the construction of Section 486
applied here, contemplating that if a coin is intended for use as current money then there is
necessarily a deceptive quality about its design, Defendant’s conviction on Count Three must be
upheld.
For the reasons set forth herein, the undersigned is of the opinion, and this Court so finds
as a matter of law, that Congress indeed possesses the power to criminalize an individual’s
minting of coinage, whether in resemblance of U.S. coins or of original design, that is intended
for use as current money.

This... in contrast to several state's "lawful money" decisions (Calif), and even precious metal as Legal Tender laws (Utah)


That's a ridiculous interpretation of Article I (am I missing some other constitutional commentary on currency issuance?). Seems a very unlikely attack vector against bitcoin unless additional explicit legislation is passed (and it would have to somehow deal only with bitcoin et al, lest they set precedent that any Chuck E Cheese franchise owner is running an illegal currency scheme).
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
November 12, 2014, 06:01:45 PM
i loled at teh comments,
i loved this one:

Quote from: slashdot
They should really start naming the black markets after big companies and celebrities. Then, when the news of a shutdown occurs, people will be confused. "What? They shut down the Microsoft drug marketplace?"
"Hey dude! You're doing lots of business! Want to bulk buy some illegal drugs from me? Let's chat on skype a bit more! Sincerely, Definitely Not An FBI Informant."
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
November 12, 2014, 05:58:51 PM
And what if the rally is being fueled by the understanding of sidechains, thanks to the debate of this thread? ;-)
Maybe the rally is being fueled by this:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/11/12/0532223/after-silk-road-20-shutdown-rival-dark-net-markets-grow-quickly

i loled at teh comments,
i loved this one:

Quote from: slashdot
They should really start naming the black markets after big companies and celebrities. Then, when the news of a shutdown occurs, people will be confused. "What? They shut down the Microsoft drug marketplace?"
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
November 12, 2014, 05:47:18 PM
Yeppers, and those of us that saw that in the theaters when it first came out have been here lining up this shot all along.
Someday, Justus, when we are alone, and I'm feeling good... I will tell you some stories about this and the cypherpunk connection that will absolutely blow your mind.
Just be sure to remind me to do so when the time comes, so I don't get senile and start talking about sleds named rosebud or something.  Wink

I don't think I'm ever remiss in acknowledging the work people in preceding generation did to set this up. At this point, however, anyone in those generations either helped get us to this point, or they didn't.

If they didn't, it's too late for them now.

Easy now, I read a brochure about this " 21 century New World" and was looking for an immigration office to process my visa, it sounds like a great place to start a new business, still lots of opportunity in the land of the new free I hope.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
November 12, 2014, 05:42:02 PM
The rising price hasn't lifted my spirits much at all.
Still reeling from this bad news.  (Bad for gold, bad for Bitcoin)
http://news.goldseek.com/GATA/1415649749.php
...
http://www.gata.org/files/VonNotHausOrder-Nov-10-2014.pdf

In which Judge Voorhees writes about my friend Bernard von NotHaus, one of the inspirations for Satoshi...
A quote from the previous horrible case Gellman v US:

Quote
"The United States has the sole power to coin money under the Constitution, and if anyone, individual or
State, assumes to supplant the medium of exchange adopted by our Government,
or assumes to compete with the United States Government in this regard, a
violation of these statutes would follow. Undoubtedly, no one can interfere with
the monopoly which this Government has obtained by reason of the
Constitutional provisions without running afoul of these statutes"
...
Whether the rationale
set forth in Gellman is adopted or not, the Court finds that under the construction of Section 486
applied here, contemplating that if a coin is intended for use as current money then there is
necessarily a deceptive quality about its design, Defendant’s conviction on Count Three must be
upheld.
For the reasons set forth herein, the undersigned is of the opinion, and this Court so finds
as a matter of law, that Congress indeed possesses the power to criminalize an individual’s
minting of coinage, whether in resemblance of U.S. coins or of original design, that is intended
for use as current money.

This... in contrast to several state's "lawful money" decisions (Calif), and even precious metal as Legal Tender laws (Utah)
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
November 12, 2014, 04:58:35 PM
And what if the rally is being fueled by the understanding of sidechains, thanks to the debate of this thread? ;-)
Maybe the rally is being fueled by this:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/11/12/0532223/after-silk-road-20-shutdown-rival-dark-net-markets-grow-quickly
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 12, 2014, 04:56:46 PM
Sidechains irrelevant, Bitcoin UP.

this could very well be true.

in that case, why change anything?
And what if the rally is being fueled by the understanding of sidechains, thanks to the debate of this thread? ;-)

or maybe fuelled by the understanding that SC's won't be enacted, thanks to the debate of this thread? Wink
hero member
Activity: 731
Merit: 503
Libertas a calumnia
November 12, 2014, 04:52:23 PM
Sidechains irrelevant, Bitcoin UP.

this could very well be true.

in that case, why change anything?
And what if the rally is being fueled by the understanding of sidechains, thanks to the debate of this thread? ;-)
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 12, 2014, 04:50:13 PM
Sidechains irrelevant, Bitcoin UP.

this could very well be true.

in that case, why change anything?
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
November 12, 2014, 04:43:12 PM
Sidechains irrelevant, Bitcoin UP.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 12, 2014, 04:32:25 PM
...so it annoys me when you folks try to fuck it up ...


Define, please.

when tvbcof gets mad, he just gets mad at everyone.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
November 12, 2014, 04:31:29 PM
The more things which distract you from distributed crypto-currencies the better.
If you're counting on that, you're gonna have a bad time.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1004
November 12, 2014, 04:27:42 PM
...so it annoys me when you folks try to fuck it up ...


Define, please.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
November 12, 2014, 04:20:08 PM
Cyph gets his education in mining economics from 'Alien!' and Justus get's his strategy from 'Star Wars'.  Wonderful.

Why do you care so much?

I'm just a lemming, right? Why does it matter where I get any strategy from?

On one hand I'm significantly invested in both Bitcoin and gold so my interest is highly selfish.  On the other, Bitcoin is not yet ruined and has the potential to provide support for the kinds of individual freedom enhancing frameworks envisioned by the now grey-beards back in the formative years of the cyphterpunks, so it annoys me when you folks try to fuck it up (regardless of what your motivations.)  Gold (which I care little about) and Bitcoin (which I care significantly about) are both prone to damage by lemmings of different stripes.

Anyway, keep your focus on that vent orifice and getting one stuck in there.  The more things which distract you from distributed crypto-currencies the better.

legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
November 12, 2014, 03:49:53 PM
Cyph gets his education in mining economics from 'Alien!' and Justus get's his strategy from 'Star Wars'.  Wonderful.
Why do you care so much?

I'm just a lemming, right? Why does it matter where I get any strategy from?
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
November 12, 2014, 03:44:27 PM
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/b-money/

Quote from: Wei Dai
I am fascinated by Tim May's crypto-anarchy. Unlike the communities traditionally associated with the word "anarchy", in a crypto-anarchy the government is not temporarily destroyed but permanently forbidden and permanently unnecessary. It's a community where the threat of violence is impotent because violence is impossible, and violence is impossible because its participants cannot be linked to their true names or physical locations.

The cypherpunks have been lining up for this shot for nearly three decades.



"The target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system."
Yeppers, and those of us that saw that in the theaters when it first came out have been here lining up this shot all along.
Someday, Justus, when we are alone, and I'm feeling good... I will tell you some stories about this and the cypherpunk connection that will absolutely blow your mind.
Just be sure to remind me to do so when the time comes, so I don't get senile and start talking about sleds named rosebud or something.  Wink

edit: that looks like an image from the digital remake.

Cyph gets his education in mining economics from 'Alien!' and Justus get's his strategy from 'Star Wars'.  Wonderful.

legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
November 12, 2014, 03:43:33 PM
Yeppers, and those of us that saw that in the theaters when it first came out have been here lining up this shot all along.
Someday, Justus, when we are alone, and I'm feeling good... I will tell you some stories about this and the cypherpunk connection that will absolutely blow your mind.
Just be sure to remind me to do so when the time comes, so I don't get senile and start talking about sleds named rosebud or something.  Wink

I don't think I'm ever remiss in acknowledging the work people in preceding generation did to set this up. At this point, however, anyone in those generations either helped get us to this point, or they didn't.

If they didn't, it's too late for them now.
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