Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 815. (Read 2032266 times)

it is.  and it works better as money than gold.

Since Bitcoin shares gold's property of scarcity, would not that be a good thing for Bitcoin?

the other major flawed assumption of SC's is that it will allow calm, rigorous, controlled evaluation of an innovation.  i ask, how is this possible in the face of the speculative attack i have just outlined?  or even in the scenario where a true innovative SC is produced as BTC in the form of scBTC floods into the SC?  it is my belief that many of these technical geeks, as you might call them, fail to consider that Bitcoin is just as much about money and economics as it is a technology.

as an early adopter and speculator myself beginning in Jan 2011 when the price was still under a dollar, i have observed first hand the response of the developer technical community to Bitcoin in the days before the price took off and then crashed during 4-5 bubbles.  MOST of them were skeptics of the economic concepts back then.  even some of its core developers continue to be so today.  only as the price took off did they sit up and listen.  there's nothing like a >1000% increase in the price of something to catch peoples attention and technical geeks are not to be excluded from the human emotional aspects of trading.  i believe SC devs would view a price increase in the exchange value of their particular scBTC to be validation that their innovation is working. and i don't believe they will be able to differentiate between the speculative attack i have just outlined from a real benefit market response. 

at the very least, SC attacks will cause volatility.  and volatility usually means most investors in an asset get hurt while a few that understand or exploit said volatility get rich.

that's a shitty solution to my speculative attack.  no one wants their BTC/scBTC locked up in some private proof where i have to rely on just you to change my position.  i want access to public open market exchange for maximum price discovery.

of course.  the non-confirmation has not had confirmation.  yet.

agreed.  but that would involve cold storage wallets being dug out all over the world and having to "exchange/lock" into scBTC which involves risk at multiple levels, not to mention the inconvenience.

but you've already said that it's almost impossible to get consensus in the current system.  why would that change under a speculative attack?  pressure?  panic?  at what % shift?  40,50,60% of BTC to scBTC?  maybe they act too late.  maybe the speculative attacker is Maxwell himself who created the SC and stands to profit from a wholesale shift into the SC and stymies adoption of the innovation into the MC.  point is, you won't know.

let me step back one step and say this:  as long as the speculative attacker can create volatility, both chains stand to lose as security is weakened across the entire ecosystem.  you yourself said that an increasing #scBTC and a rising price would indicate that the SC is succeeding.  and i agree.  and so will everybody else, including other speculators as they move to the SC and take advantage of the risk free put.

Stocks have held well in my opinion. In any case, you should wait at least a couple of weeks for Dow Theory confirmation.

Switzerland is one of the closest countries to a real democracy and this referendum could be a game changer for Gold; the market understanding that the FED can't raise interest rates, stop QE and unwind without creating a (much needed) crisis will crash the USD and benefit Gold

do you not agree that in the face of such a predicament, BTC main chain would simply be adapted to fit the market need (feature implementation) and remove the need for any wholesale "movement"

In order for there to be wholesale "movement" (I would say "exchange" or "locking" because I don't buy the notion of "moving" BTC), people would have to be adopting the sidechain, by downloading a client for it or using a web wallet or other intermediary client and using that mechanism to exhcnage/lock their BTC for scBTC. In other words, if most BTC is exchanged in that manner, then an economic majority has adopted the sidechain as a de facto replacement or upgrade for BTC.

I am sure that many Swiss voters think 20% is lowish, and some think it should be higher.

The SNB should be buying large in the futures markets right now, ahead of the vote, or be front-run by every commodities trader in the world afterwards.  (It can always unwind in the case of a No vote).


They could ask UBS for the billions in bail-out funds back early.

There will undoubtedly be some scam accountancy off-balance-sheet tricks pulled to reduce the SNB assets.

Will be interesting to watch the weasels at the SNB try to wriggle out of it ... after the shit they pulled with the EUR peg anything is possible.

I'm very interested to see what spin and hype will be deployed toward a NO vote.  Or just plan old vote rigging. A YES vote would send a shockwave. ..

Yes, now You and me can agree and create private Federated aSymmetricTWP (private b/c it is not public information, aSymmetric b/c we do not allow free investing -> only you and me can withdraw).
We can create  2 of 2 MultiSignatureAddress MSA (next algho is only example, so it may contains errors .. just for illustration)
 - you want to participate with 3 BTC I will with 2 BTC
 - offline(by email) : I'll sign you transaction you are able to withdraw 3 BTC from MSA (and send rest to my address)
 - offline: You'll sign transaction for me I'm able to withdraw 2 BTC from MSA (and send rest to your address)
 - offline: we will both sign  I deposit 2 BTC and you deposit 3 BTC to MSA
 - online: we will broadcast MSA transaction (MSA will be funded with 5 BTC )

Now we can transact offline (we do not need miners on SC) but we have SC.

precisely, in which case the BTC core would likely implement features of the apparent improved sidechain so as to mitigate the risk that exist in the exodus of the whole ecosystem

i gotta go now, wife's B day.

back later.

as i understand it, the SPV proof from BTC to scBTC has to be mined.  if enough miners switch over to the SC, say half, the MC could become more susceptible to a 51% attack that might prevent these SPV proofs from being constructed, no?

edit:  i know there's this federated thing that's possible but that's centralized.

In case STWP (Symmetric two-way peg 1:1)
 - you can deposit bitcoins to SC anytime (today, tomorrow ... in year 2140) by bitcoin transaction -> if you know private keys of your bitcoins.
 - you can withdraw bitcoins from SC anytime by bitcoin transaction -> if you know how to create proof you destroyed scBTC
 - if you deposit  X bitcoins then you can  withdraw X (minus transaction fees) -> you did not spent scBTC

Back to the gold topic.

There is a referendum in Switzerland, in November, which is likely to secure a yes vote that the SNB holds 20% of its assets in gold (currently at 7.6%). As soon as this passes the bank will have five years to reach the 20% target. There is no legal escape for it. Considering that the SNB balance sheet has recently blown out Fed/BoE/BoJ-style - it will have to buy up to 1,700 tons of gold in the open market - and take delivery!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-28/things-make-you-go-hmmm-swiss-gold-status-quo-showdown

I really think this will put a floor under the current gold price, and maybe even spark another medium-term rally.