GoldMoney [FB post]: James Turk in conversation with Félix Moreno de la Cova - page 4.

n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU

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Quote from: bracek on September 20, 2012, 07:57:34 PM

goldbugs demand tangibility, what they actually mean is :
I want to be able to be the only one who can touch it.
when someone translates them that their word "tangibility" means "absolute ownership"
they should be able to get on the right track to understanding advantages of bitcoin

To be fair, gold tangibility is a sensual thing, and not just mental ownership. Holding gold in hand, feeling the weight, the color, the luster, it's a tremendously pleasant experience, especially if the coin is very old and has history attached. Looking at a screen with your Bitcoin wallet doesn't quite measure up.

Regardless, someone needs to show Turk the combo 1ozAu/1000BTC Casascius coin. That elegant merger of equals will totally blow his mind.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: matonis on September 21, 2012, 05:18:30 AM

Quote from: sunnankar on September 20, 2012, 11:01:09 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 20, 2012, 10:42:22 PM

you know, with all my kidding about that, i knew i should've gone out and grabbed that domain! Wink

Had thought about it before but not quite so sure you would be as professionally courteous as he is with Matonis (themonetaryfuture.com).

+1 sunnankar (thanks!)

As who was with matonis?

Trader Steve

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"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."

Quote from: ?? on ??

Excellent show!

Wait, why is everyone splitting hairs over James Turk's show of concern about tangibility and things like that? My interpretation is that he already has plans for some kind of hybrid product that enables gold transactions with the help of Bitcoin technology, and the real purpose of the interview was to carefully market the idea. That's how marketing is done. Wink

Yes, I suspect this was his way of letting the market know he's warming up to bitcoin and that he's setting the stage for future options. I see no other plausible reason why he would put out this video.

hazek

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Quote from: Severian on September 20, 2012, 09:46:55 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 20, 2012, 06:03:36 PM

RUNTOBITCOIN.COM!!! Cheesy

LMAO! Get 'em, Trace!

Quote

Domain Name: RUNTOBITCOIN.COM
   Created on: 20-Sep-12
   Expires on: 20-Sep-13
   Last Updated on: 20-Sep-12

   Administrative Contact:
   Mayer, Tracy [email protected]

hahahahaha Grin

He already snatched it up? Cheesy

lol

WAIT A MIN, sunnankar is Trace?! I just realized that... should have read his signature sooner lol Tongue

Awesome interview with visionvictory btw.. You did exceptionally well a side from that one little inaccuracy about being able to confiscate someone's bitcoins if you had ~$30bil worth of hardware.. all you could do with that is disrupt the payment system by blocking transactions or double spend, you couldn't confiscate someone's bitcoins. But aside from that I thought that interview was one of the best explanations of Bitcoin for non technical people to date.

flix

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Quote from: cypherdoc on September 20, 2012, 08:34:51 PM

to use Turk's language, the gold bugs do not want any "counterparty risk". Bitcoin fulfills that definition completely.

Exactly. The whole point is having a system that doesn't require trust. You can see the code, all transactions are public, etc...

GoldMoney attempts to do this by having third-party audits.... but that just pushes trust back from the company to the auditor.

Bitcoin does away with that need.

OTOH it is still pretty volatile... until Amazon or some big site with millions of users start accepting Bitcoins, prices will continue to zigzag too much.

matonis

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Quote from: sunnankar on September 20, 2012, 11:01:09 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 20, 2012, 10:42:22 PM

you know, with all my kidding about that, i knew i should've gone out and grabbed that domain! Wink

Had thought about it before but not quite so sure you would be as professionally courteous as he is with Matonis (themonetaryfuture.com).

+1 sunnankar (thanks!)

tvbcof

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Quote from: allthingsluxury on September 21, 2012, 12:43:47 AM

James is a great man in his own right. He is a true gold and silver vigilante. He may be a little misguided when it comes to the topic of bitcoins. Max Keiser is the bitcoin champion.

The problem is that Keiser shows little sign that I can detect of being Austrian school or Libertarian. This sorely limits his appeal in certain circles. Fortunately for him (and me), his material and presentation seem to be enough to overcome his other liabilities.

datafish

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Swimming in a sea of data

Quote from: grondilu on September 21, 2012, 12:30:46 AM

So, is information something tangible?

On one hand, yes it is. Because it always requires a medium for storage. And that medium must be physical. Even if it's in your head, it's somewhere in your brain, encoded with some of your neurons.

On the other hand, no it's not. Information can travel through space vacuum via EM waves, a.k.a. light. And light is a non-material substance: you just can't hold it in any way. It's the best example of non-tangible substance we can imagine.

The real question is: should we care if information is tangible? Does it matter if bitcoins can not be hold in hands? I don't think so.

You've just rediscovered wave-particle duality. Cheesy

Gold itself is mostly empty space as most of the mass is contained in nuclei which are tiny compared to the space between them.

allthingsluxury

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James is a great man in his own right. He is a true gold and silver vigilante. He may be a little misguided when it comes to the topic of bitcoins. Max Keiser is the bitcoin champion.

grondilu

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on September 21, 2012, 12:10:51 AM

If it is not able to be physically touched does it really exist?

I don't think Turk denied the very existence of bitcoins. He just doesn't like the idea of them not being physical. Still it's funny debate. Can be annoying or interesting, depending on whether or not you're in the mood for metaphysical stuff.

Bitcoins are amounts whose transfer requires the knowledge of private keys. Private keys are numbers. Knowledge of numbers is information.

So, is information something tangible?

On one hand, yes it is. Because it always requires a medium for storage. And that medium must be physical. Even if it's in your head, it's somewhere in your brain, encoded with some of your neurons.

On the other hand, no it's not. Information can travel through space vacuum via EM waves, a.k.a. light. And light is a non-material substance: you just can't hold it in any way. It's the best example of non-tangible substance we can imagine.

The real question is: should we care if information is tangible? Does it matter if bitcoins can not be hold in hands? I don't think so.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: grondilu on September 20, 2012, 11:53:03 PM

A USB key is something tangible, right? I can put my wallet in it, can't I? If I also erase the copy of my wallet on my PC, then this USB key becomes the only thing in the whole universe that can allow me to get my bitcoins back, right?

So to me, bitcoins ARE tangible.

And what is so magic about holding something in your hands, anyway?

I suppose a "brain wallet" is intangible. So bitcoin value can be held either as tangible or intangible ... messes with people's heads like this.

If it is not able to be physically touched does it really exist?

grondilu

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A USB key is something tangible, right? I can put my wallet in it, can't I? If I also erase the copy of my wallet on my PC, then this USB key becomes the only thing in the whole universe that can allow me to get my bitcoins back, right?

So to me, bitcoins ARE tangible.

And what is so magic about holding something in your hands, anyway?

Severian

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Quote from: cypherdoc on September 20, 2012, 10:41:29 PM

unfortunately the young minds are gonna have to step up and take what's rightfully theirs.

They're already doing it. I'll keep lending a hand.

Severian

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Quote from: sunnankar on September 20, 2012, 11:01:09 PM

Had thought about it before

I kind of figured you'd snag it so I'm glad I left it.

sunnankar

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Quote from: cypherdoc on September 20, 2012, 10:42:22 PM

you know, with all my kidding about that, i knew i should've gone out and grabbed that domain! Wink

Had thought about it before but not quite so sure you would be as professionally courteous as he is with Matonis (themonetaryfuture.com).

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Severian on September 20, 2012, 09:46:55 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 20, 2012, 06:03:36 PM

RUNTOBITCOIN.COM!!! Cheesy

LMAO! Get 'em, Trace!

Quote

Domain Name: RUNTOBITCOIN.COM
Created on: 20-Sep-12
Expires on: 20-Sep-13
Last Updated on: 20-Sep-12

Administrative Contact:
Mayer, Tracy [email protected]

you know, with all my kidding about that, i knew i should've gone out and grabbed that domain! Wink

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Severian on September 20, 2012, 10:28:33 PM

The current grand old minds need to back up the younger and more flexible brains we have today.

unfortunately the young minds are gonna have to step up and take what's rightfully theirs.

Severian

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on September 20, 2012, 08:36:43 PM

Quote

The interesting fact is that what I have called the monopoly of government of issuing money has not only deprived us of good money but has also deprived us of the only process by which we can find out what would be good money. We do not even quite know what exact qualities we want because in the two thousand years in which we have used coins and other money, we have never been allowed to experiment with it, we have never been given a chance to find out what the best kind of money would be.

From the same lecture, Hayek predicts where the best kind of money ideas will come from:

Quote

The great obstacle is that it involves such great changes in the whole financial structure that, and I am saying this from the experience of many discussions, no senior banker, who understands only the present banking system, can really conceive how such a new system would work, and he would not dare to risk and experiment with it. I think we will have to count on a few younger and more flexible brains to begin and show that such a thing can he done.

The current grand old minds need to back up the younger and more flexible brains we have today.

FreeMoney

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Strength in numbers

Quote from: Trader Steve on September 20, 2012, 10:19:07 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 20, 2012, 08:34:51 PM

Quote from: bracek on September 20, 2012, 07:57:34 PM

goldbugs demand tangibility, what they actually mean is :
I want to be able to be the only one who can touch it.
when someone translates them that their word "tangibility" means "absolute ownership"
they should be able to get on the right track to understanding advantages of bitcoin

and about backing,
it is backed by me not wanting to sell it (cheap)

to use Turk's language, the gold bugs do not want any "counterparty risk". Bitcoin fulfills that definition completely.

Yes, and Mr. Turk overlooks that obvious fact that when you hold a GoldMoney account you are also subject to "counterparty risk". You risk the potential inability of Mr. Turk to redeem your digits warehouse receipts for physical gold. All his gold sits there as a fat, juicy target for existing power structures. Just ask Mr. Douglas Jackson how that turned out for him.

Super sketchy to ask people to trust you as counterparty while denying that risk exists. I don't trust him (Turk) one tiny bit.

Trader Steve

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"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 20, 2012, 08:34:51 PM

Quote from: bracek on September 20, 2012, 07:57:34 PM

goldbugs demand tangibility, what they actually mean is :
I want to be able to be the only one who can touch it.
when someone translates them that their word "tangibility" means "absolute ownership"
they should be able to get on the right track to understanding advantages of bitcoin

and about backing,
it is backed by me not wanting to sell it (cheap)

to use Turk's language, the gold bugs do not want any "counterparty risk". Bitcoin fulfills that definition completely.

Yes, and Mr. Turk overlooks that obvious fact that when you hold a GoldMoney account you are also subject to "counterparty risk". You risk the potential inability of Mr. Turk to redeem your ~~digits~~ digital warehouse receipts for physical gold. All his customers' gold sits there as a fat, juicy target for existing power structures. Just ask Mr. Douglas Jackson how that business model worked out for him.

Topic: GoldMoney [FB post]: James Turk in conversation with Félix Moreno de la Cova - page 4. (Read 14827 times)