Topic: Government &amp; Bitcoin - page 71. (Read 70830 times)

Quote from: Dotakels on May 18, 2015, 07:58:12 AM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

I think the fundamental question is: Without the government people, who will protect us from the other people, just like them, who will tax, confiscate and kill us?

You just only specific my idea. But we are talking about government not the government people. Now? you know what is the importance of the government? Even if they corrupt us or steal our money we need them.

Yes, we also need them to confuse us about the purpose of government, and to tell us that the alternative government people out there (IS, Russia) are worse.

We don't confused them, we just only explained to them the importance of government. And the benifits that they get if there are government. The advantage of a country that have a government. even if i say it that we need a government, i am not a government supporter or believer because i know what they are doing .

Erdogan

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Quote from: Erdogan on May 18, 2015, 04:57:01 AM

Quote from: Erdogan on May 18, 2015, 04:57:01 AM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

I think the fundamental question is: Without the government people, who will protect us from the other people, just like them, who will tax, confiscate and kill us?

You just only specific my idea. But we are talking about government not the government people. Now? you know what is the importance of the government? Even if they corrupt us or steal our money we need them.

Yes, we also need them to confuse us about the purpose of government, and to tell us that the alternative government people out there (IS, Russia) are worse.

Dotakels

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I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

I think the fundamental question is: Without the government people, who will protect us from the other people, just like them, who will tax, confiscate and kill us?

You just only specific my idea. But we are talking about government not the government people. Now? you know what is the importance of the government? Even if they corrupt us or steal our money we need them.

Erdogan

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Quote from: Amph on May 18, 2015, 02:20:59 AM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

I think the fundamental question is: Without the government people, who will protect us from the other people, just like them, who will tax, confiscate and kill us?

arallmuus

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we can help ourselves like we already do, by buying weapons for themselves and protect our house, yeah it might become a ~~far~~ old west but there is nothing else you can do, police are not that efficient either, and they sometime abuse their power...

you see you can't live in a perfect world no matter if you have a government or not

Even in the old west there is a goverment to ensure that everyone could live a safe life . There is no guarantee of course people will live a happy life but it will be an insurance that someone may live a better life since everything will be more socialized than without the goverment

Quote from: freeyourmind on May 18, 2015, 03:36:23 AM

What do you define as a criminal? The government has made drugs illegal, so it has evolved into a worldwide black market with conflict resolution coming from violence. It is government policy that has created the violence and "criminals" who are put into jail without having a victim. Which wars would take place without government?

Criminals are those who conduct things outside of the law. It is a fact that most goverment are corrupt and of course the policy created more criminals because some people just cant stand to be ruled with the silly rules but ofcourse a country without a goverment will not be a better places than those with goverment

freeyourmind

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Quote from: Dotakels on May 18, 2015, 12:06:05 AM

Quote from: legendster on May 17, 2015, 01:07:37 PM

Quote from: Dotakels on May 18, 2015, 12:06:05 AM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

Actually this isnt true, we CAN live & live a very happy life without much governance, just google about the Indus valley Civilization, it is believed that ancient culture was 'ruler less' as in there was no government, just a bunch of international PEACEFUL traders living & trading away.

If theres no government? who will caught to the criminals? who will protect us from terorist? who will construct the road? who will help us in state of calamity? Think about that ? who will?

What do you define as a criminal? The government has made drugs illegal, so it has evolved into a worldwide black market with conflict resolution coming from violence. It is government policy that has created the violence and "criminals" who are put into jail without having a victim. Which wars would take place without government?

Private companies can construct roads (and do today). Roads can be privately owned and charge a toll for anyone that uses it.

You should read on the spectrum of societies with different levels of government involvement from communism to socialism to minarchism and anarchy. All of them can work given proper execution, however I don't expect proper execution from current governments. I expect the bare minimum service with corruption and policies that benefit a select few over the greater population. With that expectation, the less government you have, the better it is.

legendster

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Quote from: legendster on May 17, 2015, 01:07:37 PM

Quote from: Dotakels on May 18, 2015, 12:06:05 AM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

Actually this isnt true, we CAN live & live a very happy life without much governance, just google about the Indus valley Civilization, it is believed that ancient culture was 'ruler less' as in there was no government, just a bunch of international PEACEFUL traders living & trading away.

If theres no government? who will caught to the criminals? who will protect us from terorist? who will construct the road? who will help us in state of calamity? Think about that ? who will?

Its called 'taking responsibility' its not a concept this has already happened in the ancient times. You must be from a place where there IS government right ? The goverment didnt help you improve your grammar did they ? "Who caught to the criminals?" lol

See in a society without government everything can be done with the help of 'unions' remember when the british had the East India Company & the West India Company ? Those were basically just companies colonizing new places, trading with those places and had their own security.

You want security then be your own security, to be honest a government-less society would be much more responsible & self reliant.

Amph

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Quote from: legendster on May 17, 2015, 01:07:37 PM

Quote from: freeyourmind on May 17, 2015, 12:44:31 PM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

Actually this isnt true, we CAN live & live a very happy life without much governance, just google about the Indus valley Civilization, it is believed that ancient culture was 'ruler less' as in there was no government, just a bunch of international PEACEFUL traders living & trading away.

If theres no government? who will caught to the criminals? who will protect us from terorist? who will construct the road? who will help us in state of calamity? Think about that ? who will?

we can help ourselves like we already do, by buying weapons for ourselves and protect our house, yeah it might become a far west but there is nothing else you can do, police are not that efficient either, and they sometime abuse their power...

you see you can't live in a perfect world no matter if you have a government or not

dinofelis

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The government definitely has the power to discourage the use of bitcoin by implementing regulations, fees, penalties, etc. However my response was to BTCevo and the government adopting and taking full control of bitcoin.

Given that the gouvernment can print unlimited amounts of fiat, it can buy, it if wants to, 99% of the bitcoin stock, as it did with gold.

If you own 99% of bitcoin, you definitely control it.

And bitcoiners would be happy, because the 1% still circulating would "go to the moon" and they would calculate crazy market caps.

Dotakels

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Quote from: legendster on May 17, 2015, 01:07:37 PM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

Actually this isnt true, we CAN live & live a very happy life without much governance, just google about the Indus valley Civilization, it is believed that ancient culture was 'ruler less' as in there was no government, just a bunch of international PEACEFUL traders living & trading away.

If theres no government? who will caught to the criminals? who will protect us from terorist? who will construct the road? who will help us in state of calamity? Think about that ? who will?

legendster

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Quote from: manselr on May 17, 2015, 12:32:54 PM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

Actually this isnt true, we CAN live & live a very happy life without much governance, just google about the Indus valley Civilization, it is believed that ancient culture was 'ruler less' as in there was no government, just a bunch of international PEACEFUL traders living & trading away.

arallmuus

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Quote from: arallmuus on May 17, 2015, 09:36:47 AM

Quote from: BTCevo on May 16, 2015, 02:10:17 PM

Thats why I said in order to make bitcoin bigger, government need a fully control of this bitcoin so bitcoin will become mainstream to everyone not the government have the power to control it, but everything is according to their regulation, besides government wouldnt get the control because no one know who control bitcoin for now.

Your opinion is a bit off here. Government cant control BTC because BTC is created with the purposed to be a decentralized currency which means that no one is to control BTC including satoshi the creator.
In fact, government could help if they were to support BTC to go mainstream but rather most government will leave it as it is because supporting something unbenefical and uncontrollable to them will not bring them any good

P.S : Fun comment : is there any "That bitcoin? " Tongue

Grammatical error ofcourse should have been just "bitcoin"

Quote from: Erdogan on May 16, 2015, 04:11:33 PM

He used the words "this bitcoin". I just had to seize the opportunity.

He used "this bitcoin" words again , above

All you say is true, but for example, has anyone yet answered to this:
You sign a smart contract under the blockchain, which says you own a property.
Someone jumps inside your property, which you bought under that contract.
If the government doesn't recognize that contract, why would they be responsible of not sending the police to help you out? In other words you are fucked, unless you buy private security and forget about the police too, something not very mainstream friendly.

So basically, we need the government for this, which means regulations.

Good example, unfortunately yes without the government's recoqnizion of such contracts then they would not help you but the point of my post is to counter BTCevo's post about "government to control BTC"

I bolded the part where I state that goverment to support BTC , basically supporting means not to "control". Your point of example aboutthe smart contracts actually could be solve by the goverment supporting BTC but as of we know most of the goverment dont care about BTC or more or less wont be caring such things because it serve nothing to benefit them

P.S : I could be wrong on the smart contracts things though

freeyourmind

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Quote from: thejaytiesto on May 16, 2015, 12:36:36 PM

Quote from: freeyourmind on May 16, 2015, 11:37:58 AM

Quote from: gripflierGO on May 15, 2015, 05:34:54 PM

Without government support crypto currencies will in normal times ever be just a niche thing for nerds, techies and libertarians. You need the government regulation and acceptance to reach the mass and mainstream.

Quote from: arallmuus on May 17, 2015, 09:36:47 AM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

No, it is for normal people. And no, there will never be government support, because there is nothing in bitcoin that is an advantage for the government.

Absolutely. Don't expect government to be so generous to the country. They are busy in making their own money and buying their own bread n butter. government will never support the bitcoin as a currency as they know it can be end of corruption if they adopts bitcoin

Government will start to adopt bitcoin when they getting the full control of this bitcoin so they will eat both of them and start to make a new regulation to a new bitcoin user and everything that they do is sure proftable to them rather than us

How would you go about getting "full control" of a decentralized currency? Government has two tools when it comes controlling or manipulating an economy which is the monetary and fiscal policies. Monetary policy being the interest rate and money supply, both of which don't apply to bitcoin.

Of all the fiat currencies available, all the government can do is market their own home brew and make you think that the thin air that is backing "our" currency is far superior to the thin air backing another currency.

They can use their power to all extents, by creating fear: If you use BTC at all, you'll go to jail. Even if it's technically nonsense because Bitcoin is effectively unstoppable, if the fear gets inside people's minds, they could stop supporting it and since people in general are scared of the government, they'll not break the law in order to keep BTC going, and they'll bite the bullet and keep supporting whatever scam government and the powers that be have on mind. So basically, it's on people's hand to keep BTC alive or to get keep getting fucked by the fiat (and in the future, e-fiat) scam.

In any case, there will always be people out there running BTC just like every other decentralized network, and specially BTC being the strongest ever, so underground or mainstream, BTC will never disappear and will be there for whoever wants to use it.

The government definitely has the power to discourage the use of bitcoin by implementing regulations, fees, penalties, etc. However my response was to BTCevo and the government adopting and taking full control of bitcoin.

manselr

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Quote from: BTCevo on May 16, 2015, 02:10:17 PM

Thats why I said in order to make bitcoin bigger, government need a fully control of this bitcoin so bitcoin will become mainstream to everyone not the government have the power to control it, but everything is according to their regulation, besides government wouldnt get the control because no one know who control bitcoin for now.

Your opinion is a bit off here. Government cant control BTC because BTC is created with the purposed to be a decentralized currency which means that no one is to control BTC including satoshi the creator.
In fact, government could help if they were to support BTC to go mainstream but rather most government will leave it as it is because supporting something unbenefical and uncontrollable to them will not bring them any good

P.S : Fun comment : is there any "That bitcoin? " Tongue

Grammatical error ofcourse should have been just "bitcoin"

Quote from: Erdogan on May 16, 2015, 04:11:33 PM

He used the words "this bitcoin". I just had to seize the opportunity.

He used "this bitcoin" words again , above

All you say is true, but for example, has anyone yet answered to this:
You sign a smart contract under the blockchain, which says you own a property.
Someone jumps inside your property, which you bought under that contract.
If the government doesn't recognize that contract, why would they be responsible of not sending the police to help you out? In other words you are fucked, unless you buy private security and forget about the police too, something not very mainstream friendly.

So basically, we need the government for this, which means regulations.

arallmuus

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Quote from: BTCevo on May 16, 2015, 02:10:17 PM

Thats why I said in order to make bitcoin bigger, government need a fully control of this bitcoin so bitcoin will become mainstream to everyone not the government have the power to control it, but everything is according to their regulation, besides government wouldnt get the control because no one know who control bitcoin for now.

Your opinion is a bit off here. Government cant control BTC because BTC is created with the purposed to be a decentralized currency which means that no one is to control BTC including satoshi the creator.
In fact, government could help if they were to support BTC to go mainstream but rather most government will leave it as it is because supporting something unbenefical and uncontrollable to them will not bring them any good

P.S : Fun comment : is there any "That bitcoin? " Tongue

Grammatical error ofcourse should have been just "bitcoin"

Quote from: Erdogan on May 16, 2015, 04:11:33 PM

He used the words "this bitcoin". I just had to seize the opportunity.

He used "this bitcoin" words again , above

Dotakels

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Quote from: Amph on May 16, 2015, 01:40:07 PM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

I think we can't live or our life will be ruined if theres no government to support us. Even if theres so many negatives ideas or things that government done, we need them to have a peaceful life and to have a leader to lead us in a great community.

Erdogan

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Quote from: Erdogan on May 16, 2015, 09:14:34 AM

Quote from: gripflierGO on May 15, 2015, 05:34:54 PM

Without government support crypto currencies will in normal times ever be just a niche thing for nerds, techies and libertarians. You need the government regulation and acceptance to reach the mass and mainstream.

Quote from: freeyourmind on May 16, 2015, 11:37:58 AM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

No, it is for normal people. And no, there will never be government support, because there is nothing in bitcoin that is an advantage for the government.

Absolutely. Don't expect government to be so generous to the country. They are busy in making their own money and buying their own bread n butter. government will never support the bitcoin as a currency as they know it can be end of corruption if they adopts bitcoin

Government will start to adopt bitcoin when they getting the full control of this bitcoin so they will eat both of them and start to make a new regulation to a new bitcoin user and everything that they do is sure proftable to them rather than us

Not this bitcoin.

what do you mean with not this bitcoin, are you refering to the fact that they won't bother with a bitcoin that has a marketcap so tiny? or something else?

He used the words "this bitcoin". I just had to seize the opportunity.

BTCevo

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Quote from: gripflierGO on May 15, 2015, 05:34:54 PM

Without government support crypto currencies will in normal times ever be just a niche thing for nerds, techies and libertarians. You need the government regulation and acceptance to reach the mass and mainstream.

Quote from: Erdogan on May 16, 2015, 09:14:34 AM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

No, it is for normal people. And no, there will never be government support, because there is nothing in bitcoin that is an advantage for the government.

Absolutely. Don't expect government to be so generous to the country. They are busy in making their own money and buying their own bread n butter. government will never support the bitcoin as a currency as they know it can be end of corruption if they adopts bitcoin

Government will start to adopt bitcoin when they getting the full control of this bitcoin so they will eat both of them and start to make a new regulation to a new bitcoin user and everything that they do is sure proftable to them rather than us

How would you go about getting "full control" of a decentralized currency? Government has two tools when it comes controlling or manipulating an economy which is the monetary and fiscal policies. Monetary policy being the interest rate and money supply, both of which don't apply to bitcoin.

Of all the fiat currencies available, all the government can do is market their own home brew and make you think that the thin air that is backing "our" currency is far superior to the thin air backing another currency.

Thats why I said in order to make bitcoin bigger, government need a fully control of this bitcoin so bitcoin will become mainstream to everyone not the government have the power to control it, but everything is according to their regulation, besides government wouldnt get the control because no one know who control bitcoin for now.

Amph

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Quote from: gripflierGO on May 15, 2015, 05:34:54 PM

Without government support crypto currencies will in normal times ever be just a niche thing for nerds, techies and libertarians. You need the government regulation and acceptance to reach the mass and mainstream.

Quote from: freeyourmind on May 16, 2015, 11:37:58 AM

I say keepz the government out of da cryptos all together. We don't need them. we don't want them. We are strong without them.

No, it is for normal people. And no, there will never be government support, because there is nothing in bitcoin that is an advantage for the government.

Absolutely. Don't expect government to be so generous to the country. They are busy in making their own money and buying their own bread n butter. government will never support the bitcoin as a currency as they know it can be end of corruption if they adopts bitcoin

Government will start to adopt bitcoin when they getting the full control of this bitcoin so they will eat both of them and start to make a new regulation to a new bitcoin user and everything that they do is sure proftable to them rather than us

Not this bitcoin.

what do you mean with not this bitcoin, are you refering to the fact that they won't bother with a bitcoin that has a marketcap so tiny? or something else?

thejaytiesto

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Quote from: gripflierGO on May 15, 2015, 05:34:54 PM

Without government support crypto currencies will in normal times ever be just a niche thing for nerds, techies and libertarians. You need the government regulation and acceptance to reach the mass and mainstream.