Greece Cannot Pay, Greece Will Not Pay - page 3.

n2004al

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Quote from: Santoso on August 25, 2015, 08:54:52 AM

Greece will get up. It gets stimulus from IMF.

Greece have to do a lot of money to IMF. This is the first thing. IMF cannot do nothing if Greece don't get back that money to them. The second thing is that IMF cannot decide for itself. There are European Union and Central European Bank that must accord with those.

Santoso

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Greece will get up. It gets stimulus from IMF.

n2004al

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Quote from: Pab on August 24, 2015, 06:31:54 PM

Like i see Greece now,it will be better for them to comeback for Drachma,but thay need to preper his economy for that,itcant bedone just overnight,not so much easy,but to stay with Euro is death end

Maybe you are right and maybe not. There are to many public people who defend one or the other way. Personally think that drachma will be a drama for the Greeks. They will see their currency devaluated 50-60 immediately and go in hell half of their money. And this is only the minimum....

OROBTC

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...

Just because most people are looking at CHINA now does not mean Greece & Europe have gone away.

Greece's continuing problems are still a big problem for the rest of Europe, which has its own other problems as well (ref. Zero Hedge article on crashing ocean container rates from China to Europe).

Germany is likely suffering lower exports to China, but I have not read anything about that yet. China is a BIG customer of German machinery. And luxury car sales (also cratering in China).

But, China, for now anyway, is still the bigger story.

Pab

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Like i see Greece now,it will be better for them to comeback for Drachma,but thay need to preper his economy for that,itcant bedone just overnight,not so much easy,but to stay with Euro is death end

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Quote from: MF Doom on August 24, 2015, 08:20:18 AM

Quote from: misterycoins on August 06, 2015, 06:03:53 PM

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

Exactly. I dont see how when debt (and overspending) was their problem in the first place, how more debt could possibly help the situation at all? As they say they are just "kicking the can down the road" and hoping the problem solves itself. Well it wont, and things surely will be worse for the Greeks the next time around

Basically all the country in the world are facing the same problem, but all the other countries can kick the can down the road almost forever since they just create their own money and lend to themselves to pay back the old debt and repeat and repeat ... If Greece central bank can create euro and lend to their government, they will look as good (or bad) as US, Japan etc...

The only way for Greece to get out of current trouble is create their own money, if euro is not allowed, then drachma. Of course there will be inflation and so on, but they will never face the pressure from outside. US government also shutdown some times but it never hurts

MF Doom

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Quote from: misterycoins on August 06, 2015, 06:03:53 PM

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

Exactly. I dont see how when debt (and overspending) was their problem in the first place, how more debt could possibly help the situation at all? As they say they are just "kicking the can down the road" and hoping the problem solves itself. Well it wont, and things surely will be worse for the Greeks the next time around

n2004al

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The Greece must resolve first its political problems now. With the new political configuration Tsipras may not be more in power or must be in coalition with parties that are much more Europeans and inclined to do much more concessions. This will means much more diverse policy. Greece might go in diverse directions...

greBit

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Quote from: misterycoins on August 06, 2015, 06:03:53 PM

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

The very reason why Euro is still funding Greece and taking a hit on its finances is that if Greece leaves, so does other important countries which seem like a liability but actually are the asset to Eurozone, and the reason why Greece is still in Eurozone is because Greece knows exactly what's in store for them when they go independent and they're getting attention because of their geographical position, nothing else.

RoboRob

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Quote from: misterycoins on August 06, 2015, 06:03:53 PM

The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

Well put, every day greece is still in the euro the damage to the union increases.

Greek can no longer service its debt, which is now 200% of GDP, european partners are on the hook for billions now.

Its a downward spiral for greece, there intrest payments alone are crippling them

But what do you do, you kick greece out, then Italy and Spain will be out right behind them, both are in as much of a state as greece in reality, spanish and italian banks took a kicking from which they still aint recovered.

My vote is the EU crubles in the next 10 years, and with Member states like Britan, Ireland and Holland all seeking to renegotatie there terms in relation to the EU.

At this point, greece should be likened to pandora's box, right now its just a bottom less pit from which there will soon be no escape

misterycoins

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The question is, if Greece managed to leave euro, that could mean other countries which are also in debt can also follow suit and do the same. Eventually when more countries follow the same action, it can only mean that the whole union will collapse. These has been projected to happen for some time now and I see no other solution.

eerygarden

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Quote from: n2004al on August 03, 2015, 02:30:46 AM

Quote from: Miracal on August 03, 2015, 02:07:30 AM

Quote from: Litejavichu on August 03, 2015, 01:56:39 AM

It's funny ... as were some wealthy gentlemen thieves money from all over Europe and people are still trying to analyze the situation as mathematically.
These gentlemen were expelled from Latin America or South America and have come with money to do the same thing there. It is so difficult to assume that a few rich are allied with corrupt politicians to rob citizens? And if not, can someone tell me why in Spain the rich, now with crises they are 40% more wealthy than before? Where is the famous flight of capital?

Spain has already had its fair share of economic problems, its rather recovering now. An economic growth of 0.9 has been reported for the first quarter of 2015, I remember. Also, unemployment is falling in spain. Nearly half a million cars were also sold this year which is the record high sales there, the last time that happened was in 2010. Even mortgage activity continues to increase in spain, because they escaped their economic problems now.

Very good. An excellent example of what happen if the people is responsible and understand that only the WORK can save everything. Can get out from the crisis and maybe later even can give prosperity. Maybe needed time that they passes all their problems but the signs are good. They didn't do some referendum to not give the debt to their owners but put down their head, sweated their forehead and created value. That mean money. And are enjoyed the fruits.

So in summary work makes you free. Arbeit macht frei.

g1974ak

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Quote from: Miracal on August 03, 2015, 02:48:18 AM

Quote from: Litejavichu on August 03, 2015, 02:19:19 AM

Growth economic is false, like all what comes out of the mouth of a government that has half of the workforce in jail for stealing or investigated for it. A shame

You can call growth economics false but you cannot falsify the math. Numbers say things how they are.

Quote from: n2004al on August 03, 2015, 02:30:46 AM

Very good. An excellent example of what happen if the people is responsible and understand that only the WORK can save everything. Can get out from the crisis and maybe later even can give prosperity. Maybe needed time that they passes all their problems but the signs are good. They didn't do some referendum to not give the debt to their owners but put down their head, sweated their forehead and created value. That mean money. And are enjoyed the fruits.

The only way people can help their country is by eliminating corruption out of its roots. If the country decides to take risks and put things on the line for the people of the country, people must back the country with good support. The riches in Spain did not escape the country but invested their money which brought back positive gains into the country.

I agree with you. But corruption is only one of the the worst things that can happen to one nation. Because scour every good thing arrived with try and sweat. But is not the only. Another very big important thing is that people must understand that everything begin with the work. Without work cannot go nowhere. If the people are lazy and want that everything maked itself then nothing will arrive. Nothing will be achieved.

Miracal

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Quote from: Litejavichu on August 03, 2015, 02:19:19 AM

Growth economic is false, like all what comes out of the mouth of a government that has half of the workforce in jail for stealing or investigated for it. A shame

You can call growth economics false but you cannot falsify the math. Numbers say things how they are.

Quote from: n2004al on August 03, 2015, 02:30:46 AM

Very good. An excellent example of what happen if the people is responsible and understand that only the WORK can save everything. Can get out from the crisis and maybe later even can give prosperity. Maybe needed time that they passes all their problems but the signs are good. They didn't do some referendum to not give the debt to their owners but put down their head, sweated their forehead and created value. That mean money. And are enjoyed the fruits.

The only way people can help their country is by eliminating corruption out of its roots. If the country decides to take risks and put things on the line for the people of the country, people must back the country with good support. The riches in Spain did not escape the country but invested their money which brought back positive gains into the country.

n2004al

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Quote from: Miracal on August 03, 2015, 02:07:30 AM

Quote from: Litejavichu on August 03, 2015, 01:56:39 AM

It's funny ... as were some wealthy gentlemen thieves money from all over Europe and people are still trying to analyze the situation as mathematically.
These gentlemen were expelled from Latin America or South America and have come with money to do the same thing there. It is so difficult to assume that a few rich are allied with corrupt politicians to rob citizens? And if not, can someone tell me why in Spain the rich, now with crises they are 40% more wealthy than before? Where is the famous flight of capital?

Spain has already had its fair share of economic problems, its rather recovering now. An economic growth of 0.9 has been reported for the first quarter of 2015, I remember. Also, unemployment is falling in spain. Nearly half a million cars were also sold this year which is the record high sales there, the last time that happened was in 2010. Even mortgage activity continues to increase in spain, because they escaped their economic problems now.

Very good. An excellent example of what happen if the people is responsible and understand that only the WORK can save everything. Can get out from the crisis and maybe later even can give prosperity. Maybe needed time that they passes all their problems but the signs are good. They didn't do some referendum to not give the debt to their owners but put down their head, sweated their forehead and created value. That mean money. And are enjoyed the fruits.

Litejavichu

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Quote from: Miracal on August 03, 2015, 02:07:30 AM

Quote from: Litejavichu on August 03, 2015, 01:56:39 AM

It's funny ... as were some wealthy gentlemen thieves money from all over Europe and people are still trying to analyze the situation as mathematically.
These gentlemen were expelled from Latin America or South America and have come with money to do the same thing there. It is so difficult to assume that a few rich are allied with corrupt politicians to rob citizens? And if not, can someone tell me why in Spain the rich, now with crises they are 40% more wealthy than before? Where is the famous flight of capital?

Spain has already had its fair share of economic problems, its rather recovering now. An economic growth of 0.9 has been reported for the first quarter of 2015, I remember. Also, unemployment is falling in spain. Nearly half a million cars were also sold this year which is the record high sales there, the last time that happened was in 2010. Even mortgage activity continues to increase in spain, because they escaped their economic problems now.

But we're 1.2 trillion and rising, more indebted Greece. But it will brown eat "Boliviaranos" ... Growth economic is false, like all what comes out of the mouth of a government that has half of the workforce in jail for stealing or investigated for it. A shame

qiwoman2

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Oikos.cash | Decentralized Finance on Tron

I can't really blame this Government for everything as they inherited the Country in a big mess anyway, so they being blamed for everything isn't fair at all. When the peeps all said we don't want austerity but we wanna stay in the Euro what was Tsipras meant to do? Now the hardcore left are lobbying for a grexit and a return to the Drachma, you just can't please everyone..For me we should have grexited in January but then you would have the majority of peeps up in arms because they wanted to stay in the Euro..From the fire into the frying pan, Tsipras whatever he does just can't please anyone because the people want it all, not to pay the debt, not want austerity and stay in the Euro..It just can't happen.. You either exit the Euro and work the ass off rebuilding the country or stay in the Euro and try to negotiate and collect whatever crumbs you can.. I don't blame Tsipras at all, he has done his best with what he has to work with.

Miracal

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Quote from: Litejavichu on August 03, 2015, 01:56:39 AM

It's funny ... as were some wealthy gentlemen thieves money from all over Europe and people are still trying to analyze the situation as mathematically.
These gentlemen were expelled from Latin America or South America and have come with money to do the same thing there. It is so difficult to assume that a few rich are allied with corrupt politicians to rob citizens? And if not, can someone tell me why in Spain the rich, now with crises they are 40% more wealthy than before? Where is the famous flight of capital?

Spain has already had its fair share of economic problems, its rather recovering now. An economic growth of 0.9 has been reported for the first quarter of 2015, I remember. Also, unemployment is falling in spain. Nearly half a million cars were also sold this year which is the record high sales there, the last time that happened was in 2010. Even mortgage activity continues to increase in spain, because they escaped their economic problems now.

mindrust

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I haven't ever seen people as lazy as Greeks. They open their shops 2-3 times a week, for a limited time. (mostly afternoons of course, too lazy to wake up early) They don't give a shit if the customer really needs something from their store, they don't give a damn about money. They know their big cousins will feed them forever. (In this case they are Germany and France)

Don't get confused, It is not the Greek people who are poor at the moment, It is the government.

Time to meet with long working hours, low salaries, high taxes. But if I was a Greek guy, still i wouldn't give a crap. Let Germans think about my mess.

Grin

Litejavichu

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It's funny ... as were some wealthy gentlemen thieves money from all over Europe and people are still trying to analyze the situation as mathematically.
These gentlemen were expelled from Latin America or South America and have come with money to do the same thing there. It is so difficult to assume that a few rich are allied with corrupt politicians to rob citizens? And if not, can someone tell me why in Spain the rich, now with crises they are 40% more wealthy than before? Where is the famous flight of capital?

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