The only responsible course of action for Merkel and EU is to heavily cut Greece's debt. Even if it wasn't for the fact that German and EU banks are partially responsible for the crisis with their irresponsible lending, it is as you said, Greece cannot pay. They can either continue their draconian austerity measures and repayment demands which will cause further destabilization and harm Greece's economy even more, or accept the very real fact that Greece simply cannot pay, cut their losses and move on.
Topic: Greece Cannot Pay, Greece Will Not Pay - page 6. (Read 8229 times)
No matter what caused it to happen. I feel sorry for them, I see it getting even worse personally.
But watching lines of people in this day and age waiting in line to get money from ATM and are limited per day is scary.
But watching lines of people in this day and age waiting in line to get money from ATM and are limited per day is scary.
I think thats the point. Its a message as to the consequences of a nation`s default. Conclusion = just keep borrowing (fear and insanity)
Greece will default.
No it won't!
Your model of the goal and outcome is wrong. Read my my post at the following link:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11937734
The entire EU will brought into debt crisis and only then will there be a monetary reset in a NWO slavery system.
Dumb ass European people can't even see what is so obvious to me since 2010 when I predicted this outcome.
Like the Greek government who wastes money casually, and debts with people to live, and do not make efforts for improving themselves, leading to the fiscal deficits exploded. What could EU do? If Greece quits from eurozone, it would be the disaster of euro. The countries which are on their way up do not need to attend the defective currency system.
Agree with you Dinofelis,but the reason to keep Greece in EuroZone and EU is also Greece geopolitical location
One big issue is,that even IMF,USA and even Mario Draghi were saying ,that debt reduction is needed,without that that money will not go to Greece economy and situation will repeat.It will be like that faster than in three years
One big issue is,that even IMF,USA and even Mario Draghi were saying ,that debt reduction is needed,without that that money will not go to Greece economy and situation will repeat.It will be like that faster than in three years
And expect a payment of some form, I`d actually just cut my losses if I was the one of the bigger countries that lend the euro.
The point is that the leaders of those countries are not the owners of the debt: their country is. The only thing that those leaders want to put safe is their next election. If you "take your losses" (which would, from a business PoV, be indeed the most sensible thing to do), then YOU are the cullprit who is responsible for that loss. If you can kick the can to your successor, then you might still win a few elections before it becomes impossible to kick the can.
So from a personal advantage PoV of a poltical leader, there's no benefit to be taken in taking the losses now. You prefer having your country having larger losses, but later, when another dude has to face it.
It was for instance the main motivation for Frau Merkel. She was facing the fact that at her next potential election, she would have to explain to the Germans that she "broke" Europe, and that she incurred a loss of about 80 billion Euros to Germany (which they already have lost, but can pretend to still own as long as Greece didn't default officially).
In that respect, Hollande, the French president, was more thoughtful of his country, which is also seriously indebted and fighting deficit: for him it was a dreamed-of occasion to try to shove all European debt in Germany's ass, France's included.
Why Greece don't leave the EU? it may the only way to avoid bankruptcy of the country.
This is indeed something I can't wrap my mind around, why Tsipras didn't want to leave (but was trying to blackmail the rest of Europe with his Grexit, until, just after the referendum, this became a realistic option, and he got scared as hell).
Greece leaving would have been far far better for everybody, including Europe and Greece.
The only one saying that out load was Germany's finance minister, Schaeuble, and he got all the sins of Israel on his head for saying so.
If the rate of crime will continue to increase this it will be a very big problem for the Greece. Not only for the simple people which will be more unsure while going on the streets but for the economy too. The tourists will be less and less and the tourism is one of the major resources for the Greece. The Government need to solve quickly this problem without being returned big problem.
Its only a problem for greece, and the rest of the euro just watches while it crumbles.
And expect a payment of some form, I`d actually just cut my losses if I was the one of the bigger countries that lend the euro.
No matter what caused it to happen. I feel sorry for them, I see it getting even worse personally.
But watching lines of people in this day and age waiting in line to get money from ATM and are limited per day is scary.
But watching lines of people in this day and age waiting in line to get money from ATM and are limited per day is scary.
I don't know why people blame the EU for this.
Greece cooked their books in order to make it so they could join the EU, they were already a house of cards financially before they joined.
Greece cooked their books in order to make it so they could join the EU, they were already a house of cards financially before they joined.
cooking the books is a old thing. most companies do it esp when they want more profits, but when a country does it pretty much hits global level.
as for the repayment, we all know that they wouldnt or couldnt have paid regardless based on past history.
...
"What cannot be repaid, will not be repaid."
- traditional
Despite the five year drama on Greece and their attempts to stay in the EU and with the euro, it is clear that Greece will NOT repay their external debts. Despite this latest "deal", the math cannot be ignored: Greece cannot pay their debts, so they will not. Some kind of default is inevitable.
In general there are three ways extreme debtors use to extinguish debts (other than paying up):
1) Inflate them away. This (as well as number three below) is what most governments around the world are doing. Printing the money. An increased inflation rate lowers the real value of the debt, borrow money, and repay in devalued money in the future. This is easy to do.
2) Default (don't pay). This happens from time-to-time. Argentina has defaulted twice in recent years. Greece has defaulted many times in its +/- 100 year modern history as a nation. A large scale default tends to be deflationary, there are perils to a population and government in a country that defaults.
3) Increase the debts! Debtor countries, including the USA, can often get away with this as long as lenders perceive that they will get their money back (at least recently-loaned money). This is the easiest of them all in the short-term But, increasing debts almost always leads to ever increasing problems trying to pay (or later restructure). Because at some point, no one will loan them any more money...
* * *
Of course, any country just getting into trouble would find that total long-term harm is less by biting the bullet and paying their debts quickly. The problem is that politicians, and their electorates, only want EASY solutions. Paying debt is never the "easiest" solution.
Greece is in an advanced state of huge debts (their debt: GDP ratio is around 177%). They cannot pay them off, at least in uninflated terms.
Greece will default. The mathematics is irrefutable. The only question is how and when. Which of the above options they will use.
Beware. Prepare. European debts (US debt too) are a big problem, with big consequences, that will likely spread here.
"What cannot be repaid, will not be repaid."
- traditional
Despite the five year drama on Greece and their attempts to stay in the EU and with the euro, it is clear that Greece will NOT repay their external debts. Despite this latest "deal", the math cannot be ignored: Greece cannot pay their debts, so they will not. Some kind of default is inevitable.
In general there are three ways extreme debtors use to extinguish debts (other than paying up):
1) Inflate them away. This (as well as number three below) is what most governments around the world are doing. Printing the money. An increased inflation rate lowers the real value of the debt, borrow money, and repay in devalued money in the future. This is easy to do.
2) Default (don't pay). This happens from time-to-time. Argentina has defaulted twice in recent years. Greece has defaulted many times in its +/- 100 year modern history as a nation. A large scale default tends to be deflationary, there are perils to a population and government in a country that defaults.
3) Increase the debts! Debtor countries, including the USA, can often get away with this as long as lenders perceive that they will get their money back (at least recently-loaned money). This is the easiest of them all in the short-term But, increasing debts almost always leads to ever increasing problems trying to pay (or later restructure). Because at some point, no one will loan them any more money...
* * *
Of course, any country just getting into trouble would find that total long-term harm is less by biting the bullet and paying their debts quickly. The problem is that politicians, and their electorates, only want EASY solutions. Paying debt is never the "easiest" solution.
Greece is in an advanced state of huge debts (their debt: GDP ratio is around 177%). They cannot pay them off, at least in uninflated terms.
Greece will default. The mathematics is irrefutable. The only question is how and when. Which of the above options they will use.
Beware. Prepare. European debts (US debt too) are a big problem, with big consequences, that will likely spread here.
Very good post,whan Greece will default,Whan banksters will steal what thay can steal,and than thay will let Greece goes,no mercy
you know about that 50blnto50bln fund,that idea is not new one,mrSchauble did it 25 years ago in east Germany,it causes poverty and east Germany citzens mass emigration to West,stiil after25 years East Germany is Germany B
look link,very interesting http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/17/germany-greece-wolfgang-schauble-bailout
Next big question is,what will happen whan Russia will be bankrupt,it may happen in two years
I don't know why people blame the EU for this.
Greece cooked their books in order to make it so they could join the EU, they were already a house of cards financially before they joined.
Greece cooked their books in order to make it so they could join the EU, they were already a house of cards financially before they joined.
I have not heard of crime rates alarmly increasing. The smart greeks took their money out months ago anyway... the TV watchers... well they actually thought they were gonna get out this without the bank deposits taking a "hair cut" 
that's cute.
that's cute. 
I have not heard of crime rates alarmly increasing. The smart greeks took their money out months ago anyway... the TV watchers... well they actually thought they were gonna get out this without the bank deposits taking a "hair cut" that's cute.
that's cute.you won't have crimes increase, because no one will buy anything there without money, hell they can't even rob a bank, because they have no money, at least until the new funds arrive from the central banks
the best thing that criminals can do is robbing stuff there and go sell abroad, but it's too tedious to be worth it
If the rate of crime will continue to increase this it will be a very big problem for the Greece. Not only for the simple people which will be more unsure while going on the streets but for the economy too. The tourists will be less and less and the tourism is one of the major resources for the Greece. The Government need to solve quickly this problem without being returned big problem.
I have many Greek friends and they say with the increase of unemployment, the crime rate has increased. You have to be more vigilant for pick pockets on the streets and theft has increased dramatically. Mostly things like phones, cameras and money clips.
The prices on food hasn't changed much and prices have stay reletively the same.
So this talk on increases in VAT for tourists is ok by my friend
He lives in a rural area where he doesn't care much what happens in the big cities.
The prices on food hasn't changed much and prices have stay reletively the same.
So this talk on increases in VAT for tourists is ok by my friend
He lives in a rural area where he doesn't care much what happens in the big cities.
They need a kind of inspiration of Aristotle,Socrates,Demosthenes,Plato and the great Greek philosophers any of them would tell them to do.
I don't think that's gonna help right now. Greece needs a slap in the face to get back on the right track and work it out otherwise if they run back to drachma, it will be the most worthless money in the world.
The worlds leaders want the world to be in debt, cause that is the only way you can enslave a human, a communities, a states, a reigns and in the end the whole world. The world is run by debt. Just take a look which state is the most indebted at the moment.
Big words but for me are a paranoia. If all the leaders are such the human kind is dead. The leaders are created and elected by the people. If the peoples of all the world are so stupid to create and elect such people we are truly at the end.
The debt is only a economic tool that is used in difficulties, needs or even desires. Everyone in difficulties, in need or to fulfill a desire which want money create a debt. Then work to pay it. Who is responsible take a debt that can afford. Who is irresponsible think only about new ways to take debt over debts.
The same for the leaders. There are responsible and irresponsible ones. Greece, most of the times, was governed by irresponsible leaders. End of the story.
The worlds leaders (not their government, in the eyes of the people government has its own sovereignty and independence, but that is not the case, this is just a mask) want the world to be in debt, cause that is the only way you can enslave a human, a communities, a states, a reigns and in the end the whole world. The world is run by debt. Just take a look which state is the most indebted at the moment.
Hi, I think its Greece last option to get out of his problems. They have to take right decisions regarding Economy. But on the other hard, it will be counter productive if they will implement for austerity measures in pensions etc
Greeks are planning on increase of VAT of tourist sector. For now Restaurants and Cafes pay 13% VAT - it will increase to 23%. Hotels and other similar services pays 6.5% now and will be paying 13%.But I am afraid that this is not enough to save them. Their debt is already unpayable at this point.
Jump to: