HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 289.

frank93

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Quote from: Gyrsur on January 01, 2014, 10:01:46 AM

cannot imagine we have such few people which are interested to fight against HF. who has serious interest and willing to pay to get back a at least a portion of his invested money?

i've got serious interests, but i don't believe in group efforts when they'd have to be coordinated internationally, i'm afraid - even less so when it comes to law-stuff.

at least it's getting clearer (for me, personally) that i WILL ask for a refund instead of accepting some hardware at this point. and according to "my" terms of service, the asking-for-refunds-window started today and is open until january 15th, and i'm taking that time to (hopefully) do it right. i'm in contact with a local (german, as far as i'm concerned) lawyer to get some advice how to react (from me to hashfast, directly) in a way that's hopefully/kinda unimpeachable - asking for a refund in btc, full amount that i paid back in november. only afterwards i'll think about suing (or taking other legal actions), i.e. if that other stuff doesn't work.

Gyrsur

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cannot imagine we have such few people which are interested to fight against HF. who has serious interest and willing to pay to get back at least a portion of his invested money?

btw. I believe also the timeframe on Ciara is over for HF. they have to book an another one. this means additional delays.

jspielberg

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Quote from: ImI on January 01, 2014, 09:36:00 AM

Quote from: jspielberg on January 01, 2014, 09:27:59 AM

Quote from: dogjunior on December 31, 2013, 08:03:35 PM

Well looks like people will get a extra 5% for a refund not 500% . HF is asking for another 30 days to ship Oct 2013 Jets.

If I had to guess... their time booked at Ciarra has expired for Batch1 and they won't get access again until the end of January... ergo 30 days.

This is of course speculation, as I have no information other than what they write.
Hopefully they realize how much they have screwed up and when the assembly line re-opens, they just ship B1 with MPP (since it will be past the 90days from Oct 30th).

If another 30 days are needed and batch#1 customers are seriously screwed, i would propose that HF offers some kind of compensation.

This compensation doesnt have to be hurried. Instead they could offer us for example units of their (probably happening) second generation units for free including shipping. Similar to whats Cointerra doing at the moment. They are giving free march Terraminer to their screwed Dec customers. Thats not second generation but it shows how such a situation could be handled between Hashfast and their customers in a satisfying way for both sides.

It seems clear to me that they are way over their heads and don't know what the heck they are doing.

Why do you think a 2nd generation would be any better?
If I thought they had a chance in hell of succeeding, I would demand that my guaranteed 60%+ loss B1 order be cancelled and all the BTC be applied to their next generation. But... I don't have any confidence in them succeeding there when they failed so clearly and miserably with this generation.

No... I am afraid the best option other than legal is to get the machines as quickly as possible and dig out of the hole as much as possible. Hard lessons... engineering doesn't overcome bad management and businesses hellbent on not ensuring value for their customers.

augustocroppo

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Quote from: Gyrsur on January 01, 2014, 09:56:33 AM

let us know about the refund to split the costs in case if the refund is not sucessfull.

All right. I paid with Paypal, so if I am refused the refund I will open a dispute and certainly win. I will let you know what happens. Thank you for the support.

Gyrsur

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Quote from: augustocroppo on January 01, 2014, 09:50:32 AM

Quote from: cedivad on January 01, 2014, 08:32:08 AM

I don't think it will be of any real use (not in my case at least, I've already decided that i will go against them), but let's do it. (0.01BTC here?)

Quote from: Gyrsur on January 01, 2014, 09:07:24 AM

would also pay 0.01 btc for this report.

I just discovered the report is almost empty... I mean, the only information that Experian have about them is already public. I literally paid for a report which is not a report. How nice from Experian to offer empty reports for money.

Sorry for that guys, I will contact the proper channels to obtain a refund.

let us know about the refund to split the costs in case if the refund is not sucessfull.

augustocroppo

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Quote from: cedivad on January 01, 2014, 08:32:08 AM

I don't think it will be of any real use (not in my case at least, I've already decided that i will go against them), but let's do it. (0.01BTC here?)

Quote from: Gyrsur on January 01, 2014, 09:07:24 AM

would also pay 0.01 btc for this report.

I just discovered the report is almost empty... I mean, the only information that Experian have about them is already public. I literally paid for a report which is not a report. How nice from Experian to offer empty reports for money.

Sorry for that guys, I will contact the proper channels to obtain a refund.

ImI

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Quote from: jspielberg on January 01, 2014, 09:27:59 AM

Quote from: dogjunior on December 31, 2013, 08:03:35 PM

Well looks like people will get a extra 5% for a refund not 500% . HF is asking for another 30 days to ship Oct 2013 Jets.

If I had to guess... their time booked at Ciarra has expired for Batch1 and they won't get access again until the end of January... ergo 30 days.

This is of course speculation, as I have no information other than what they write.
Hopefully they realize how much they have screwed up and when the assembly line re-opens, they just ship B1 with MPP (since it will be past the 90days from Oct 30th).

If another 30 days are needed and batch#1 customers are seriously screwed, i would propose that HF offers some kind of compensation.

This compensation doesnt have to be hurried. Instead they could offer us for example units of their (probably happening) second generation units for free including shipping. Similar to whats Cointerra doing at the moment. They are giving free march Terraminer to their screwed Dec customers. Thats not second generation but it shows how such a situation could be handled between Hashfast and their customers in a satisfying way for both sides.

jspielberg

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 255

Quote from: dogjunior on December 31, 2013, 08:03:35 PM

Well looks like people will get a extra 5% for a refund not 500% . HF is asking for another 30 days to ship Oct 2013 Jets.

If I had to guess... their time booked at Ciarra has expired for Batch1 and they won't get access again until the end of January... ergo 30 days.

This is of course speculation, as I have no information other than what they write.
Hopefully they realize how much they have screwed up and when the assembly line re-opens, they just ship B1 with MPP (since it will be past the 90days from Oct 30th). Then B1 can wash our hands of the whole ordeal.

I have "optimistically" updated my spreadsheet.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auya3iRE6az1dGtKTGZDXzVDeFVjbHl3VmNsT216dHc&usp=drive_web#gid=8

"Optimistic Assumptions":
This assumes we will get delivered a working B1+MPP combined in early February (very unlikely that HF will have found their butt by then with both hands)
This assumes linear daily difficulty in March (unlikely... supra-exponential still likely).
This assumes zero power costs (unlikely for most)

Total lifetime earnings per BJ order with these assumptions: ~25BTC

To make a long story short... It won't make sense to buy any miners from any company for the next 12 months. Expect most mining companies to start self-mining once they finish their customer batches or to sell at a price point ensuring heavy miner losses, as this model is starting to take shape.

Gyrsur

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would also pay 0.01 btc for this report.

cedivad

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I don't think it will be of any real use (not in my case at least, I've already decided that i will go against them), but let's do it. (0.01BTC here?)

augustocroppo

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Quote from: Gyrsur on January 01, 2014, 03:36:51 AM

what is the address to send them a registered letter from outside of US? thank you!

The best choice for legal purposes is always to use the company registered address to send notification letters. Do not forgot to authenticate your signature and date in the letter:

By the way, is anyone interested to obtain an Experian credit report of HASHFAST TECHNOLOGIES LLC? I could got one, but it have a cost. A credit report would be good to anyone verify what is the financial situation of the company. You could all participate with a little bit and pool the amount to pay for the report, which in BTC would cost more or 0.04 BTC at the moment.

Gyrsur

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Quote from: SolarSilver on January 01, 2014, 03:53:43 AM

Quote from: cedivad on January 01, 2014, 03:51:28 AM

Quote from: PuertoLibre on December 31, 2013, 11:30:36 PM

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4248560
Looks like Cedivad may have gotten his full BTC back.

No No No No No.

That thing has nothing to do with me personally, as i wrote, it has to do with the "extent of my op"; alias, let the world know about HashFast.

You should append that post, it's really confusing

to all! please let us focus on the fight against HF because they hire a lawyer early in Dec 2013 to protect themselves against their customers.

as of my understanding no one received a full BTC refund so far!

focus on the fight! this forum is public. HF (or the lawyer Adam Ettinger) laugh about us if they reading some post here.

it is a good sign for us if they feel so defensively they have to hire a expensive lawyer. they did a lot of mistake in the past, e.g. changing the TOS over and over again. if the lawyer come to the conclusion he cannot protect them from full BTC refund they will pay a full BTC refund. they have no other chance anymore. stay in business or go bankrupt. I'm sure they choose to stay in business beause they invested a lot in this business (not only money) also heart and brain. they want to stay in the business somehow!

and again! do not sign anything additional after your initial order! it is a trap from a very clever lawyer. and it is their last chance to avoid a full BTC refund!

RickJamesBTC

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Quote from: SolarSilver on January 01, 2014, 03:53:43 AM

Quote from: cedivad on January 01, 2014, 03:51:28 AM

Quote from: PuertoLibre on December 31, 2013, 11:30:36 PM

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4248560
Looks like Cedivad may have gotten his full BTC back.

No No No No No.

That thing has nothing to do with me personally, as i wrote, it has to do with the "extent of my op"; alias, let the world know about HashFast.

You should append that post, it's really confusing

Not really. I took it to mean he got some larger press coverage of this fiasco.

SolarSilver

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Quote from: cedivad on January 01, 2014, 03:51:28 AM

Quote from: PuertoLibre on December 31, 2013, 11:30:36 PM

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4248560
Looks like Cedivad may have gotten his full BTC back.

No No No No No.

That thing has nothing to do with me personally, as i wrote, it has to do with the "extent of my op"; alias, let the world know about HashFast.

You should append that post, it's really confusing

cedivad

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Quote from: PuertoLibre on December 31, 2013, 11:30:36 PM

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4248560
Looks like Cedivad may have gotten his full BTC back.

No No No No No.

That thing has nothing to do with me personally, as i wrote, it has to do with the "extent of my op"; alias, let the world know about HashFast.

Bicknellski

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Witness

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Quote from: Gyrsur on January 01, 2014, 03:36:51 AM

Quote from: SolarSilver on January 01, 2014, 03:26:28 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cedivad on December 31, 2013, 09:45:57 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I emailed them demanding a refund.

Error detected.

Is there a better way?

Yes, on the 2nd of Jan when the post office opens, I will send them a registered letter stating I want to know how they are going to solve the problem they are causing. It's called a notice of default and it's the first step one can take to start a conversation with HF to come to some kind of agreement. You can later escalete it to a lawyer if no comprimise can be found.

what is the address to send them a registered letter from outside of US? thank you!

1+

Gyrsur

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Quote from: SolarSilver on January 01, 2014, 03:26:28 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cedivad on December 31, 2013, 09:45:57 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I emailed them demanding a refund.

Error detected.

Is there a better way?

Yes, on the 2nd of Jan when the post office opens, I will send them a registered letter stating I want to know how they are going to solve the problem they are causing. It's called a notice of default and it's the first step one can take to start a conversation with HF to come to some kind of agreement. You can later escalete it to a lawyer if no comprimise can be found.

what is the address to send them a registered letter from outside of US? thank you!

SolarSilver

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cedivad on December 31, 2013, 09:45:57 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I emailed them demanding a refund.

Error detected.

Is there a better way?

Yes, on the 2nd of Jan when the post office opens, I will send them a registered letter stating I want to know how they are going to solve the problem they are causing. It's called a notice of default and it's the first step one can take to start a conversation with HF to come to some kind of agreement. You can later escalete it to a lawyer if no comprimise can be found.

SolarSilver

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Quote from: jimbobway on December 31, 2013, 09:25:38 PM

I sued BFL and won. Since I live in California, I had to hire an attorney in Johnson County KS. I won by default with damages and atty fees awarded, as BFL failed to show at trial.

Quote

Now the caveat: BFL is very skilled at moving its money and its accounts around the various banks in Leawood Kansas. Our investigator has determined that they had accounts in certain banks which are now closed, but we suspect that they are no longer using the registered corp-name BF Labs Inc as the corporate name on the account they use to pay their local employees-- and they DO have to pay their employees somehow.

So you sued, won, but have no way if getting your money. Great. How is that any good?

I've successfully sued people in the past but if they refuse to pay, or can't pay, it's a waste of time and money. The only one that is gaining here is your lawyer. You paid him, right? Or if there is a partial payment by BFL, is he first in line to cover the legal fees?

I'm sorry but I don't see much of a happy end here

Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 289. (Read 880816 times)