Author

Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 290. (Read 880461 times)

legendary
Activity: 1112
Merit: 1000
I sued BFL and won. Since I live in California, I had to hire an attorney in Johnson County KS. I won by default with damages and atty fees awarded, as BFL failed to show at trial.

Quote
Now the caveat: BFL is very skilled at moving its money and its accounts around the various banks in Leawood Kansas. Our investigator has determined that they had accounts in certain banks which are now closed, but we suspect that they are no longer using the registered corp-name BF Labs Inc as the corporate name on the account they use to pay their local employees-- and they DO have to pay their employees somehow.

So you sued, won, but have no way if getting your money. Great. How is that any good?

I've successfully sued people in the past but if they refuse to pay, or can't pay, it's a waste of time and money. The only one that is gaining here is your lawyer. You paid him, right? Or if there is a partial payment by BFL, is he first in line to cover the legal fees?

I'm sorry but I don't see much of a happy end here
legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4248560
Looks like Cedivad may have gotten his full BTC back.
So, by refunding BTC to Mr Cedivad, HF finally admits that the refund should equal to the original amount of BTC spent? Thus, everyone else is getting the same amount of BTC spent? HF turns out to be a decent company after all.

Did I miss something?  I have the feeling by his posts that he went to Arbitration and possibly had a good outcome which could be anything over the initial USD refund.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
knc-shill-wannabe

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4248560
Looks like Cedivad may have gotten his full BTC back.
So, by refunding BTC to Mr Cedivad, HF finally admits that the refund should equal to the original amount of BTC spent? Thus, everyone else is getting the same amount of BTC spent? HF turns out to be a decent company after all.
copper member
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1465
Clueless!
How the hell do these companies not get prosecuted?  This forum makes it seem like it is legal to defraud people of their money.

Huh



as someone who went paypal ..paypal executive committee route....ftc.......ftc referral to county attorney bfl is located at....bbb (which was sympathetic but had no clout but the rating)..and of course class action suit ie and in my case asking an individual lawyer..it all came down to this in the USA (some people had more success with refunds from bfl in Europe from what I heard)

tHEY shipped you the product ...sure it was a year late but the regulators we're not impressed..paypal it was after 4 months if you don't get it in another 6 months contact us again ....all the lawyers would not touch this for this reason

ie same reason no class action suit as long as bfl ships you something even if 9 months late and an asic brick the regulators are "whats the problem you got it late but you got it"

so lack of enforcement esp ftc (who punted to county attorney which is prob not gonna go after the multi million dollar business in their county)

also know of folk who have 'won' small claims court ...again ...bfl just ships them a product late...and they ship it back or keep it either way bfl is then off the hook

but mostly from what I heard bfl just ignores small claim losses

again lack of enforcement

so hashfast probably will NOT do the same..but they could at least in the USA.....product in hand is all the regulators care about or else I'd be part of a very large class action lawsuit against bfl with others..but no lawyer will take it

hopefully all will work out with hashfast but that is the way things have been going so far and why bfl folks have had to eat this stuff

again hashfast will likely simply give you more hash ...in bfl's case it was no refund forced to update fall bricks to monarch bricks in future

again ...if no refunds and no enforcement form asic companies.....you are limited on what you can do at this time it may change but...not soon I'm afraid

again don't see this with hashfast..just saying their is that much slack in enforcement that at the present time asic companies can get away with this imho

Searing
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Can anyone tell me how many devices was available in Batchs 1, 2,3,4 etc
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
How the hell do these companies not get prosecuted?  This forum makes it seem like it is legal to defraud people of their money.

Huh
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
There are all kinds of nasty little things in that refund agreement.
Quote
It is further understood and agreed that the general release referred to in Section 1 above a are a full and final release and shall apply to all unknown and unanticipated Claims, including, without limitation, those resulting from or based upon or in any way connected with the matters referred to herein as well as those now known or disclosed. Buyer hereby agrees that all rights under Section 1542 of the California Civil Code are hereby waived. Such section reads as follows: “A general release does not extend to claims which a creditor does not know of or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the release which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement with the debtor.”
What's this, HashFast is asking you to waive your rights? They wouldn't do such a thing.

The release as written will mean that should you suspect you're owed a BTC refund but choose to get the USD refund anyway, you will have no recourse at a later time should it become apparent that HashFast does in fact owe you your Bitcoins back as originally promised.
It is certainly incredible they would even offer that form publicly. It is nothing short of ridiculous. It only seems to be a 5 page agreement to screw the customer and indemnify (sp?) HashFast.

I am curious as to the date when the PDF was drawn up...


Edit: Ah, their lawyer made it, figures.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4248560
Looks like Cedivad may have gotten his full BTC back.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
There are all kinds of nasty little things in that refund agreement.
Quote
It is further understood and agreed that the general release referred to in Section 1 above a are a full and final release and shall apply to all unknown and unanticipated Claims, including, without limitation, those resulting from or based upon or in any way connected with the matters referred to herein as well as those now known or disclosed. Buyer hereby agrees that all rights under Section 1542 of the California Civil Code are hereby waived. Such section reads as follows: “A general release does not extend to claims which a creditor does not know of or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the release which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement with the debtor.”
What's this, HashFast is asking you to waive your rights? They wouldn't do such a thing.

The release as written will mean that should you suspect you're owed a BTC refund but choose to get the USD refund anyway, you will have no recourse at a later time should it become apparent that HashFast does in fact owe you your Bitcoins back as originally promised.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
Amount Paid: US$ 36,267.70 (44.5001466 BTC)
Refund Amount: US$ 36,267.70 (44.5001466 BTC)
Equipment Ordered: 1 Babyjet

[OPTIONAL: _____ I hereby cancel all of my orders and request a refund in the amount shown above, but to be paid in Bitcoin at the exchange rate quoted by Bitstamp on the day HashFast provides such Bitcoins. I hereby attest that it is legal for me to receive Bitcoin under the applicable laws of my jurisdiction.] Please provide your Bitcoin wallet address here: ____________________________________________________________

lol someone had to do it  Grin
You missed the fine print. In red highlights the (Hashfast's template) says:

Quote
Please initial only one of the following:

_____ I hereby cancel all of my orders and request a prompt refund in the amount shown above, paid to me in
United States Dollars.

[OPTIONAL: _____ I hereby cancel all of my orders and request a refund in the amount shown above, but to be
paid in Bitcoin at the exchange rate quoted by Bitstamp on the day HashFast provides such Bitcoins. I hereby
attest that it is legal for me to receive Bitcoin under the applicable laws of my jurisdiction.] Please provide
your Bitcoin wallet address here: ____________________________________________________________

_____ I prefer to wait up to an additional 30 days from the Notice Date above for HashFast to deliver the
equipment. I acknowledge and consent to a revised ship date of January 30, 2014.



=======================

It should read:

[OPTIONAL: _____ I hereby cancel all of my orders and request a refund in the amount shown above, but to be
paid in Bitcoin at the exchange rate quoted by Bitstamp on the day the order was placed. I hereby
attest that it is legal for me to receive Bitcoin under the applicable laws of my jurisdiction.] Please provide
your Bitcoin wallet address here: ____________________________________________________________

========================

It is a SMALL difference, but this is how they can take away several dozens of bitcoins from your pocket. This is why you should not use the REQUEST REFUND FORM they have prepared for you. Someone should honestly open up an Adobe PDF editor and work their way down the document and release an edited version for the community.

You should also create a back channel to discuss your individual resolutions. As it is against the HashFast Terms to discuss your particular resolution publicly.

If you get your full BTC refund amount awarded to you, then you should or should not contact me via PM with one simple word.

"YES"

I will casually "interpret" this however I may to indicate that a full BTC refund was issued and therefore indicate that to others publicly as a third party observer. So that everyone knows...you can get your full BTC amount back and there are folks who have....without actually discussing your refund resolution.
donator
Activity: 798
Merit: 500

Amount Paid: US$ 36,267.70 (44.5001466 BTC)


Oh if only...many of us were at 60 BTC...
donator
Activity: 686
Merit: 519
It's for the children!
There will be a Baby Jet at my door in 1.5 hours?
full member
Activity: 428
Merit: 100
Amount Paid: US$ 36,267.70 (44.5001466 BTC)
Refund Amount: US$ 36,267.70 (44.5001466 BTC)
Equipment Ordered: 1 Babyjet

[OPTIONAL: _____ I hereby cancel all of my orders and request a refund in the amount shown above, but to be paid in Bitcoin at the exchange rate quoted by Bitstamp on the day HashFast provides such Bitcoins. I hereby attest that it is legal for me to receive Bitcoin under the applicable laws of my jurisdiction.] Please provide your Bitcoin wallet address here: ____________________________________________________________

lol someone had to do it  Grin
legendary
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
Looks like he took the advice I made a while back on small claims and getting liens.

I am quite comforted to know that he has been awarded judgements, has found someone competent in the execution of BitCoin related cases, recovery of funds and is seeking a subpoena to evaluate where funds are stored at BFL headquarters.

No doubt he may not be alone? Only time can tell, please help donate to him so that his path may be smooth...for himself and others following their own cases.
Reading required ... thread is about ... HF ...

... and Lulz the article states that he won coz BFL didn't show.
Claiming competence based on winning with a no-show is ... well ... called ignorance.
donator
Activity: 686
Merit: 519
It's for the children!
Saw this on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1u4v0o/i_sued_bfl_in_kansas_jurisdiction_and_won/

I sued BFL and won. Since I live in California, I had to hire an attorney in Johnson County KS. I won by default with damages and atty fees awarded, as BFL failed to show at trial.
My case is a matter of public record, case 13LA09619
BFL has now failed to respond to their loss of the suit and we are looking for ways to collect via lien, direct bank account deduction, etc. In addition we will be shortly expanding a second lawsuit based upon the proof of fraud whereby our bitcoins will be returned to us via a court procedure known as 'recession' [where the court orders that you are returned to the same position today that existed before the fraud occurred] and will seek to secure our bitcoins by way of a replevin order.
These processes are time and money consuming, but as BFL continues to ignore the court orders, their fines and fees are increasing from the date of our original judgment.
The chief obstacle for execution of a recession and replevin order is the notion that bitcoins [even though digital] are a type of property that can be 'seized' or returned, by an action provisioned under instructions given to a sheriff acting on orders from the court.
Of course, we crypto-geeks know that this can be easily accomplished, but BTCs are a new "unknown" to the US jurisprudential system, and our attorney has to guide them through the process and allow them to conclude that "this can be done".
If anyone is interested in filing suit against BFL remotely, I have an EXCELLENT attorney-- and since he has already won the first suit, it is a foregone conclusion he can win yours.
Now the caveat: BFL is very skilled at moving its money and its accounts around the various banks in Leawood Kansas. Our investigator has determined that they had accounts in certain banks which are now closed, but we suspect that they are no longer using the registered corp-name BF Labs Inc as the corporate name on the account they use to pay their local employees-- and they DO have to pay their employees somehow.
Speculation is that they have moved to using ADP or another third party payroll system and have masked their accounts.
We are pursuing a subpoena to force a court appearance by Sect/Treasurer Jody Drake to disclose the location of assets.
Anyone wishing information on the progress of the suit and information regarding process and procedures can contact me at info at coinpositive dot com.
This has been an expensive process, but BFL should not be allowed to defraud the public.
If you found this helpful, you can donate mBTCs to this address: 14nu944b3Lpe1yPEAzCoaTyMrs6rsPNbtM
Or mLTCs to this address: LL1LPKCkxJwQpyKphtKqkBoVE7xXi1eZzd
I will try to help as many who ask. God Bless and Happy New Year
Looks like he took the advice I made a while back on small claims and getting liens.

I am quite comforted to know that he has been awarded judgements, has found someone competent in the execution of BitCoin related cases, recovery of funds and is seeking a subpoena to evaluate where funds are stored at BFL headquarters.

No doubt he may not be alone? Only time can tell, please help donate to him so that his path may be smooth...for himself and others following their own cases.

This deserves it's own thread.

If BFL is actively working to hide their accounts that means there are a lot of judgements out there...

This deserves to be used against HF...  Hi HF.  I'm not your customer so feel free to follow me around.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
I emailed them demanding a refund.

Error detected.

Is there a better way?

Certified mail return receipt.
Indeed...
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
Saw this on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1u4v0o/i_sued_bfl_in_kansas_jurisdiction_and_won/

I sued BFL and won. Since I live in California, I had to hire an attorney in Johnson County KS. I won by default with damages and atty fees awarded, as BFL failed to show at trial.
My case is a matter of public record, case 13LA09619
BFL has now failed to respond to their loss of the suit and we are looking for ways to collect via lien, direct bank account deduction, etc. In addition we will be shortly expanding a second lawsuit based upon the proof of fraud whereby our bitcoins will be returned to us via a court procedure known as 'recession' [where the court orders that you are returned to the same position today that existed before the fraud occurred] and will seek to secure our bitcoins by way of a replevin order.
These processes are time and money consuming, but as BFL continues to ignore the court orders, their fines and fees are increasing from the date of our original judgment.
The chief obstacle for execution of a recession and replevin order is the notion that bitcoins [even though digital] are a type of property that can be 'seized' or returned, by an action provisioned under instructions given to a sheriff acting on orders from the court.
Of course, we crypto-geeks know that this can be easily accomplished, but BTCs are a new "unknown" to the US jurisprudential system, and our attorney has to guide them through the process and allow them to conclude that "this can be done".
If anyone is interested in filing suit against BFL remotely, I have an EXCELLENT attorney-- and since he has already won the first suit, it is a foregone conclusion he can win yours.
Now the caveat: BFL is very skilled at moving its money and its accounts around the various banks in Leawood Kansas. Our investigator has determined that they had accounts in certain banks which are now closed, but we suspect that they are no longer using the registered corp-name BF Labs Inc as the corporate name on the account they use to pay their local employees-- and they DO have to pay their employees somehow.
Speculation is that they have moved to using ADP or another third party payroll system and have masked their accounts.
We are pursuing a subpoena to force a court appearance by Sect/Treasurer Jody Drake to disclose the location of assets.
Anyone wishing information on the progress of the suit and information regarding process and procedures can contact me at info at coinpositive dot com.
This has been an expensive process, but BFL should not be allowed to defraud the public.
If you found this helpful, you can donate mBTCs to this address: 14nu944b3Lpe1yPEAzCoaTyMrs6rsPNbtM
Or mLTCs to this address: LL1LPKCkxJwQpyKphtKqkBoVE7xXi1eZzd
I will try to help as many who ask. God Bless and Happy New Year
Looks like he took the advice I made a while back on small claims and getting liens.

I am quite comforted to know that he has been awarded judgements, has found someone competent in the execution of BitCoin related cases, recovery of funds and is seeking a subpoena to evaluate where funds are stored at BFL headquarters.

No doubt he may not be alone? Only time can tell, please help donate to him so that his path may be smooth...for himself and others following their own cases.
donator
Activity: 686
Merit: 519
It's for the children!

Wtf are they shipping if everyone got the we're f ing you email instead of tracking? 1 unit to Luke?

Why not?  It worked for BFL.



And who all sued BFL and won?  I'll wait.
donator
Activity: 686
Merit: 519
It's for the children!
I emailed them demanding a refund.

Error detected.

Is there a better way?

Certified mail return receipt.
donator
Activity: 798
Merit: 500

Wtf are they shipping if everyone got the we're f ing you email instead of tracking? 1 unit to Luke?
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