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Topic: Hashnest 's newest PACMiC Cloud Mining Contract - page 9. (Read 20716 times)

hero member
Activity: 918
Merit: 1002
Hi, I've bought pacmic and it was running for 5 days. You say estimated ROI is 22%. So far I've paid back almost 5% in principal and my profit is almost 0.003 BTC. Given that I'd continue at the same rate until the principal is paid in full I'd get 0.06 BTC. That would be only 6% of ROI. However, according to the formula, the closer to the end I am the less profit I will receive, so it'll likely be even less than 6%.

Can I ask some questions?
Why is it that the better the pool does (the quicker the blocks are found) the less profit I receive?
Should I therefore root that antpool would get stuck on blocks to accumulate profit?
Why is it that there had to be some special formula involved instead of, you know, just give like 10% ROI hardcoded?
Because if the principal is paid in 100 days, wouldn't it be simpler just to run 10 more measly days just for profit?
Because the way I see it I've paid 1BTC and I'll get 1BTC with some cents back and that'll be about it.

You should get just over 5% at end of your contract which makes it about 22% a year. What are you saying, it does not deliver that?
Cause according to my calculation, if you keep getting 0.003 BTC every 5 days, u ll end up with 0.054 in 90 days, which is 5.4% on your 1 BTC invested. Since it ll probably take about 100+ days to get your principal back, it does not matter that you ll face diminishing profits towards the end, you should end up with above 5% at the end.

Yeah, I guess it is partially my fault for not fully reading into the posts and etc. but I think it's deceptive to say "It's 22% annually" because I'm pretty sure 99% of the people would think in terms of 1 contract not in one year. I might as well say that you'll receive 50% ROI in 10 years while ROI per contract would be 1.25%. I guess it's kinda ok then but I'd like sellers of the contract to be more straightforward, if it's 5.5% per three months I am smart enough to multiply it by four on my own.
I don't mean to disagree with you for the sake of disagreeing, but this is a common practice when speaking about interest.  I had to read through the terms about 20 times before I sorted it all in my head, but the practice is in no way deceptive.
newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
Hi, I've bought pacmic and it was running for 5 days. You say estimated ROI is 22%. So far I've paid back almost 5% in principal and my profit is almost 0.003 BTC. Given that I'd continue at the same rate until the principal is paid in full I'd get 0.06 BTC. That would be only 6% of ROI. However, according to the formula, the closer to the end I am the less profit I will receive, so it'll likely be even less than 6%.

Can I ask some questions?
Why is it that the better the pool does (the quicker the blocks are found) the less profit I receive?
Should I therefore root that antpool would get stuck on blocks to accumulate profit?
Why is it that there had to be some special formula involved instead of, you know, just give like 10% ROI hardcoded?
Because if the principal is paid in 100 days, wouldn't it be simpler just to run 10 more measly days just for profit?
Because the way I see it I've paid 1BTC and I'll get 1BTC with some cents back and that'll be about it.

You should get just over 5% at end of your contract which makes it about 22% a year. What are you saying, it does not deliver that?
Cause according to my calculation, if you keep getting 0.003 BTC every 5 days, u ll end up with 0.054 in 90 days, which is 5.4% on your 1 BTC invested. Since it ll probably take about 100+ days to get your principal back, it does not matter that you ll face diminishing profits towards the end, you should end up with above 5% at the end.

Yeah, I guess it is partially my fault for not fully reading into the posts and etc. but I think it's deceptive to say "It's 22% annually" because I'm pretty sure 99% of the people would think in terms of 1 contract not in one year. I might as well say that you'll receive 50% ROI in 10 years while ROI per contract would be 1.25%. I guess it's kinda ok then but I'd like sellers of the contract to be more straightforward, if it's 5.5% per three months I am smart enough to multiply it by four on my own.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Hi, I've bought pacmic and it was running for 5 days. You say estimated ROI is 22%. So far I've paid back almost 5% in principal and my profit is almost 0.003 BTC. Given that I'd continue at the same rate until the principal is paid in full I'd get 0.06 BTC. That would be only 6% of ROI. However, according to the formula, the closer to the end I am the less profit I will receive, so it'll likely be even less than 6%.

Can I ask some questions?
Why is it that the better the pool does (the quicker the blocks are found) the less profit I receive?
Should I therefore root that antpool would get stuck on blocks to accumulate profit?
Why is it that there had to be some special formula involved instead of, you know, just give like 10% ROI hardcoded?
Because if the principal is paid in 100 days, wouldn't it be simpler just to run 10 more measly days just for profit?
Because the way I see it I've paid 1BTC and I'll get 1BTC with some cents back and that'll be about it.

You should get just over 5% at end of your contract which makes it about 22% a year. What are you saying, it does not deliver that?
Cause according to my calculation, if you keep getting 0.003 BTC every 5 days, u ll end up with 0.054 in 90 days, which is 5.4% on your 1 BTC invested. Since it ll probably take about 100+ days to get your principal back, it does not matter that you ll face diminishing profits towards the end, you should end up with above 5% at the end.
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
Are you considering to lower the minimum investment in the future?

Dear flyingplows,

User may freely invest with only 1 GH/s in the trading market if you are not referring to PACMiC  Cool
However, we will continue thinking the possible oppurtunities to reach a win-win model.

Thanks!

I was talking about PACMiC, I would like to try it, but after AMHash fiasco I don't feel very comfortable sending my money without trying it out with a smaller amount first... well, I guess I wil try umisoo and will jump in PACMiC at the next batch  Wink
newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
Hi, I've bought pacmic and it was running for 5 days. You say estimated ROI is 22%. So far I've paid back almost 5% in principal and my profit is almost 0.003 BTC. Given that I'd continue at the same rate until the principal is paid in full I'd get 0.06 BTC. That would be only 6% of ROI. However, according to the formula, the closer to the end I am the less profit I will receive, so it'll likely be even less than 6%.

Can I ask some questions?
Why is it that the better the pool does (the quicker the blocks are found) the less profit I receive?
Should I therefore root that antpool would get stuck on blocks to accumulate profit?
Why is it that there had to be some special formula involved instead of, you know, just give like 10% ROI hardcoded?
Because if the principal is paid in 100 days, wouldn't it be simpler just to run 10 more measly days just for profit?
Because the way I see it I've paid 1BTC and I'll get 1BTC with some cents back and that'll be about it.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Are you considering to lower the minimum investment in the future?

Dear flyingplows,

User may freely invest with only 1 GH/s in the trading market if you are not referring to PACMiC  Cool
However, we will continue thinking the possible oppurtunities to reach a win-win model.

Thanks!
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
Are you considering to lower the minimum investment in the future?
full member
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
Oh boy!
Bought 3 Th/s (three contracts I guess?) almost 10 days ago. So far - so good Smiley Reinvest option OFF for now.
full member
Activity: 151
Merit: 100
Update:

Quote
Q: what is Auto-Rebuy feature ?
A:After enabling the Auto-Rebuy feature, your payout and profit payments will be used to automatically and incrementally purchase more PACMiC hashrate.
When you disable the feature, mining revenue and profit payments will continue accumulating inside your account balance as usual.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1004
Not sure to understand the purpose of that.
I buy a contract and the contract end when the capital have been paid back.
So I buy a contract for 1 BTC and at they end I receive only 1 BTC. No profit??

Not sure to understand. Im sure I'm missing something but will like to understand.

Thanks

Keep innovating Bitmain!

Of course you profit, why would anyone even invest here if at best they would only get what they invested  Grin
look here:

Q:How does the user make profit?
A:Profit is calculated by the formula: unpaid principal (BTC) * 0.7 (satoshis per BTC per second) * time to find a block (seconds). Mining revenue will be prior to pay for the profit, the remaining of mining revenue will be paid for the principal.

Do you understand now?  Wink

Ok good! Yeah I knew I was not understanding it well this is why I ask. So they paid profit and after the paid back a part of capital.
Good

Thanks
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
Not sure to understand the purpose of that.
I buy a contract and the contract end when the capital have been paid back.
So I buy a contract for 1 BTC and at they end I receive only 1 BTC. No profit??

Not sure to understand. Im sure I'm missing something but will like to understand.

Thanks

Keep innovating Bitmain!

Of course you profit, why would anyone even invest here if at best they would only get what they invested  Grin
look here:

Q:How does the user make profit?
A:Profit is calculated by the formula: unpaid principal (BTC) * 0.7 (satoshis per BTC per second) * time to find a block (seconds). Mining revenue will be prior to pay for the profit, the remaining of mining revenue will be paid for the principal.

Do you understand now?  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1004
Not sure to understand the purpose of that.
I buy a contract and the contract end when the capital have been paid back.
So I buy a contract for 1 BTC and at they end I receive only 1 BTC. No profit??

Not sure to understand. Im sure I'm missing something but will like to understand.

Thanks

Keep innovating Bitmain!
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
I buy 1 TH/s for 1 bitcoin.  The first block is solved and I am awarded 50,000 satoshi's, of which 10,000 is profit.  I am paid and my contract is decreased by the 40,000 that goes towards principal, leaving my unpaid balance at .99960000, but I now have 50,000 satoshi's in my wallet.  I now buy another contract for 50,000 satoshi's, which is supposed to pay me back 50,000 satoshi's plus profit.  Adding that into my other contract, I now have a contract hashing at 1.00050000, but they only owe me 1.00010000.


Hi DebitMe,
Excellent answer, you know how PACMiC works very well  Cool

When your contract hashing at  1.00050000TH/s, but your cost/capital is 1.00010000BTC. Mining revenue per PPLNS payout is increasing along with your reinvest, so daily profit and and paid back are increasing too.

Some day, if you disable 'rebuy', Duration of ROI is further speeding up due to the only increasing of hashing power.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Something I am not able to find, how many watts are said to be used for each PACMiC in determining how long it stays on for?

From my understanding they are the equiv of an s5.  I believe that is what I read.

Right, but we are not getting the same hashrate as an S5, so I am wondering if it is based off of 590 watts of power (.51 watts per GH/S), or scaled down to the amount of hash we actually get, which at .51 watts per GH/s, would be 510 watts.

I don't fully understand how it works so I turned it off.

Thinking about it this way......

Yes, the hashrate increased which you would think is good but your PACMIC expires when your unpaid balance reaches zero.  So yes, your Hash rate increases which just pays you back faster and gets your unpaid balance to zero faster right?  So thinking about it it didn't feel right to me.

For example 5 blocks found with auto rebuy turned on increased my unpaid balance by far less then it decreased my unpaid balance with it turned off for 5 blocks.

Like I said when it was turned on I increases my hashing obviously ( which means I get paid back more/decreases my unpaid balance faster )  Still there are so many factors it just wasn't obvious for me.

I need to think about it more...


Hey man, I will try to explain this to help you out, but I think the way it is working right now is correct.  Forgive me if this gets really confusing.

Ok, first you buy 1 TH/s for 1 bitcoin and are supposed to get paid back 1 bitcoin.  Cool, the contract takes 120 days, you get your 1 btc back, plus some profit, lets say that ends up being .1 btc to make it easy.  So now you have 1.1 bitcoins and can buy another contract for 1 TH/s for 1 btc.  No problem, nice and easy to follow, now lets add in the rebuy option.

I buy 1 TH/s for 1 bitcoin and am supposed to get paid back 1 bitcoin.  After 120 days of reinvesting my profit, my contract now hashes at 1.5 TH/s and I am owed 1.1 btc (it would obviously be more due to compounding interest and all, but for the sake of explanation lets assume).  If each block found were to add the total amount and the principal together, I would now be owed 2.1 btc, which obviously isn't right.  Another way to think about it is...
I buy 1 TH/s for 1 bitcoin.  The first block is solved and I am awarded 50,000 satoshi's, of which 10,000 is profit.  I am paid and my contract is decreased by the 40,000 that goes towards principal, leaving my unpaid balance at .99960000, but I now have 50,000 satoshi's in my wallet.  I now buy another contract for 50,000 satoshi's, which is supposed to pay me back 50,000 satoshi's plus profit.  Adding that into my other contract, I now have a contract hashing at 1.00050000, but they only owe me 1.00010000.

I hope that helps, please let me know if there are any questions.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Something I am not able to find, how many watts are said to be used for each PACMiC in determining how long it stays on for?


PACMiC is runnig backed by S5 (1155Gh/s, 590W), which is indicated in the 'PACMIC Terms of Service'

Quote
Contract Suspension

If after 120 days, a PACMiC has still not recovered the initial capital for its user, and is not mining enough revenue to pay for its own electricity cost (fixed at 0.098 USD per kWh, calculated using an ideal AntMiner S5 hashing at 100% uptime per PPS payout), whether because of difficulty increase or BTC price decrease, the PACMiC will continue paying out for ten days as though it were running, even if the machine is turned off. If these conditions persist for ten continuous days, the contract will be considered temporarily suspended. During the suspension period, mining revenues and profit payments will also be temporarily stopped. If after the suspension period, difficulty has dropped or bitcoin price has risen, making mining possible again, the contract will be reinstated and pick up where it left off.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Quote
*After enabling the Auto-Rebuy feature, your mining revenue and profit payments will be used to automatically and incrementally purchase more PACMiC hashrate.
When you disable the feature, mining revenue and profit payments will continue accumulating inside your account balance as usual.

Taken from their website, sounds like the value of your PACMiC will increase when you have a payout, thereby reinvesting profits.  Not sure how often "incrementally" is, but def interested to find out!  Great new feature, only 1 more confirm to see what is going to happen.

Ok here is my experience.

We found a block and my " additional principal " increased.

Also my " Unpaid " increased

So from the unpaid increasing it does in fact sound like it increased your actual PACMIC holdings.

But it is still early.  Will be nice to hear from Rob or Janet when they get on.

Edit - I don't see any other way it could be working.  Because what if I turned it on but then later decided to turn it off?  They would need to credit that btc back to my wallet.
From what I see it does actually incrementally buy actual additional fractions of PACMIC every block that is paid out which is a very nice feature.

yes agreed, but I am curious if I am getting more hash power, or if my principle is only increasing?  If I am not getting any extra hashpower out of the deal, I might as well just hold my payouts for a few days, then buy a new PACMiC.

Also, it shows my profit as 0, but it should still show a profit number I think.  this is purely cosmetic as I still am getting profit, but I think it should still show it.

EDIT: If my hashpower is not increasing with each block, then all I am effectively doing is betting that when it is not profitable to run anymore will be further down the line than the current estimate.

I guess we wait and see what Janet or rob say about how it works later.

You make a very good point though is it that our hashrate increases or are we just extending the time in which our current amount of pacmic are active by increasing our principal that it needs to pay off before the contract ends.

Again, good question you have... hope Janet or Rob can answer when they get on.

Edit - ahh with the 2nd block the actual hashrate did increase like you said above.  Very nice!
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Nice new feature for PACMIC. 

You can no set autorebuy.

I just turned it on so not sure if it buys more every block rewarded or waits for it to accumulate.  Will update when a block goes through.

If it works smooth it will probably cause less buying on the other ant2,3,4,5 and umisoo markets as people will no longer be using their PACMIC to buy ghs.  ( For example the profits I was using from PACMIC will now be going back into pacmic and not the others )

Something to think about.

Hmm, that would be awesome if it constantly was rebuying more PACMiC's, I would continuesly be putting more money into this as the returns are pretty good right now, but I am wondering how that will work, especially since they are still only being sold by the 1 btc ea mark.

I have a hard time working out how it would constantly be rebuying PACMiC power.  I really hope it isn't waiting for 1 btc to accumulate before it buys another one.

EDIT:  Some cool new graphs and layout features though, nicely done guys!
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Dear Users,

Recently, maybe you can not login hashnest.com smothly due to DDoS attacking, however the miners are mining perfectly in the private network, so mining payouts as usual will not be affected.

Thanks for all your support and patience.

Janet
full member
Activity: 151
Merit: 100
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