Topic: [HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit) - page 129. (Read 565833 times)

If only you had done that 3 months ago this thread would be 30 pages shorter  Glad you finally pulled the trigger.

I had my suspicions of a connection between mike and effect. I now believe they are the same person.

One example off the top of my head would be when mike decided to bail from the project, offered up shares, effect apparently bought them


EDIT: please post screenshots cryptx, or some other form of proof. Please also at least make an attempt to refute his claims    ... it looks bad otherwise

EDIT 2: I see mike's full post, but I'm not believing anything until someone shows some proof. That said, there is no "bribe" suggestion, just a request to fix your projections cryptx, which I agree with...

(some deletes)

Everybody,

We are going to delete all posts of 2 people: mikemikemike and Effect. We have been receiving messages from them with bribe suggestions and threads. This is something that cannot be tolerated. Here are some quotes from their PM’s:

From Effect
“I know mikemikemike in real life. Infact were in the same hotel as I speak. If you want him to stop and delete his posts just pay him off and you can continue running your sham.”
“I really would like to enjoy my holiday, so just speak to him. He's a very determined person, he won't let this go until he has a reason to let it go.”
“I'm just trying to give both of you a way out, it's the only thing I can think of. And it's not the first time he's been paid to keep quiet. He's a very smart guy, but money controls him.”
“But How ever much he says he's not pissed off, he is, you guys screwed him and other investors by upping the share price of CryptX while SCRYPT was just being born.”

From mikemikemike
“So apart from you guys screwing over most of your more serious investors by artificially bumping up the price to 0.095 while all we deviated our funds to Scrypt. I'm not saying this was intentional, but it did fuck us over. I'm saying you didn't think about us. Which is fair enough, this is business, and time is of the essence.”
“If you don't then I'm gonna go fully public with everything I know. It will be said in allllot more detail, spoken in allot better language, and I will give full projections that no offence, make yours look like child's work. I used to do it for a living. When this gets out, and your motives do to, your IPO will never sell, you guys won't make anywhere near as much money, and ill make sure it gets to every article site and forum on the web. I hire people to do that for me.”
“I know this has been a pretty blunt email but I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I've never been that straight edged myself but this is ridiculous.”
“I'm going to get to work on my own projections tonight if I don't hear from you and make them public”

much thanks. its starting to sink in s l o w l y...

You are totally correct.

Only the last sentence does not add up. At 500 TH/s we cannot mine the 3,650 BTC needed from now until July for the 1,000TH/s extra hardware. This were the IPO comes in.

Thank you MrSike. That explanation was very helpful.

Let's make this simple.
We are now 0.6% of total network hashrate.
If this ipo goes the worst scenario, not a single share be sold.
Then we will have to halt all dividends until July.

Let's assume that difficulty rises 15% each stage.
By the time of July, total network hashrate would be around 135PH/s.
And with our 1.5PH/s , we own over 1% of total network hashrate, which is better than now.
That's why I didn't sell my shares.

If we can buy those Bitfury machines in small amount as reinvestment part now, and stop the new ipo would be even better.

I believe the large seller did it to buy into Scrypt-X, couldn't find the post, but I think I've read it somewhere in this topic or in Scrypt-X's topic.

Just because a large investor decides to exit their position shouldn't really say much. You say 'we should stay' that doesn't make much sense. You stay if you think it's a good investment opportunity, otherwise you leave. You don't have to buy in then exit just because someone holding a bigger position does the same.

 for all you know these shares were always owned by cryptx and just withdrawn from the market, then sold prior to announcement of the increased hashrate for max profit. I think everyone was waiting for cryptx to sell some, obviously you would expect them to boost the share price in advance because it's in their best interest, even a scammer without care for future of the project would do the same. this is why it made sense to get in because you can rest assured they will pump it... (why sell for 0.07 when you can get 0.09) so they set a floor with the announcement. I can't imagine with havelocks depth and their own scryptx offering diluting things that trying to dump 30k shares on market will work out well though, but who knows, might be surprised.

For new or old investors; 1.5PH is 3x the amount hashing right now and still more than 2x the amount projected before. to which everyone rejoiced at not long ago.. , Bitfury and peta has set a precedent in the past for timely delivery/installation. Remember that the hardware is existing, in stock. Not a preorder nonsense.

Shareprice before floating around 0.075, rising above 0.1 well before 500th is online.. who other than a very nervous individual who's been burned in the past would decide that 0.0855 is good price to cash out for right now?

sounds fair - more info, more transparency, more discussion with unit holders will go a long way...

Oh, of course, my bad, we should look at this in terms of dollars or euros, with bitcoin price fluctuation it's a guess trying to say how much coins will buy certain hardware.

We agree on your point of view. This means we will accumulate reinvestments to a certain point that enables us to benefit from the purchasing power.

The amount of Bitcoins needed to give us this advantage is hard to predict because circumstances change very fast.

You can find a price prediction of future hardware in the forecast. I do think we have overestimated this price and much lower prices can be possible in the near future.

and I thought that the decrease in cost of fees was due to scryptx launch.
14500 shares, out of 80k, your biggest investor wanted to cash out. That's really a good motivator to stay for all of us. Sure. The whale goes and we should stay.
For all your investment and cost part: show us your financials or do you want the shareholders to believe you are so generous spending money for the shareholders profit?

can you come out clean and tell us how much you paid those 14500 shares? was it the price at that moment or the new ipo price?
Was that the biggest shareholder?
Isn't the project already falling behind, and you are halting payouts to invest further? Stuck at 500ths while we should be at way more?
Wasn't the alteration of reinvestment rate something subject to shareholders voting?

Are you going to do the same in few weeks for scryptx project as well?

it could be, in fairness, that your decision was the wise one for the long term success of the project. But it is how you carried out the changes and communication that was the bad thing. At least for me.

And now, with more btc funding requests, this starts smelling as the cousin of a ponzi scheme.
Shareholders need to suggest and promote the new ipo or they will not be able to sell their expensive shares or re-start getting their dividends.

I don't see how this could possibly go wrong.

About reinvestment, how do you plan on making it, every 1000 bitcoins accumulated, 2000?

How much hash power does 1000 bitcoins buy us in the near future?

I've always saw the LK BTC MINER acquisitions with the reinvestment funds as a bad move, buying big and as cheap as possible seems the way to go.

25,000+ btc will be mined assuming either entire global hashrate remains static, which obviously it won't OR the 2% figure (representing PETA's portion of entire hashrate) used in that calculation will grow proportionally to the rate of growth the rest of the market. This is the reason for 65% rather than 100% towards dividends, which would be a losing proposition over time.

For example the mine initially started with 1G per share. Hardware was sold to expand the farm and instead of quickly paying off investors a lump sum from that sale, a decision was made to withhold those dividends to increase the capacity, therefore GH/s each share is entitled to a higher amount. at 80k shares with current deployment that increased 600%, combatting the difficulty increases.

You can see from dividend history the upwards trend.


Here we come to the second situation where a temporary sacrifice is made to ensure the long-term success of the mine.

I think there is a lot of confusion going on about the latest developments. Let me try to elaborate on this.

First we want to clear some misunderstandings:

“You bought 14,500 units and now you sell them at a higher price in the IPO to make a profit for yourself”.

The money that is raised at the IPO will go to the purchase of 1000 TH/s of mining equipment, which costs about 3,760 BTC. Financial breakdown to deploy 1PH/s:

• Cost: 3,760 BTC
• Income:

                * 33,794 shares at IPO: 3,313 BTC
                * Current reinvestment funds: 150 BTC
                * Mining revenue (16-31 May): 300 BTC

“do you think you could tell us what that 1000BTC will be spent on cryptx? Shares or what?”

We will pre-finance the 1000 BTC to be able to purchase up to 1000 TH/s after the IPO. This means it is a loan from us to the PetaMine. The more shares are sold in the IPO, the less has to be pre-financed and paid back in dividends.

“Why are dividends withheld for a few weeks?”

This is a joint effort of current investors, new investors and CryptX. Investing in new hardware now will have a much better impact in the long run on both unit value and dividends.

“But they are misleading people so they can maximize their own profits. The first few months will be the most profitable, but instead of pumping out dividends then are going to use it to reinvest so they can have more machines, which makes them more money. “

We can tell all of you that we have already invested over 1,000,000$ of our own private money into this project. This money has been spent on:

•   Datacenter: Electric installation, cooling, infrastructure, alarms, network, etc
•   Shipping costs: We have paid all the express shipping from US (Cointerra), from Switzerland (Bitmine), from China (Dragon miners, custom miners).
•   PSU: we have bought about 200 psu’s so the Coincraft desk could be delivered faster.
•   Custom miners: Apart from the chips, we have paid the full production of 250 miners.
•   Custom designs
•   Labor costs
•   Etc

We have a margin on hosting costs, so it is in our interest that PetaMine grows. We have cut hosting from 0.45$/kwh to 0.25$/kwh because we believe in the project for the long term and want it to have every chance to succeed.

Old situation:

We were hashing at about 500 TH/s with 80,760 units. What would have happened if we did not make some drastic changes? 

First we would pay the last part of the Bitmine contract and we would be in the same situation like before. We would have to wait on the RIG’s to be delivered. In best case, all RIG’s would be deployed in a couple of weeks and we would hash at 700 TH/s with 80,760 units outstanding. This would have meant 8.67 GH/share.

Second every week the dividend payments would have gone down and the hosting fees would have gone up.

The overall result would have been that the PetaMine would produce less and less dividend until costs became higher than revenue. The consequences would have been a dropping unit price and a dropping dividend.

New situation:

We have cut the hosting fee from 0.45$/kwh to 0.25$/kwh. In other words we gave up a large portion of our income to the PetaMine project.  We could have left it at 0.45$ and receive a lot more hosting for the coming months. Instead we want the project to thrive and become one of the larger players in the Bitcoin mining place.
We bought back about 14,500 shares with the money we otherwise had to spend on Bitmine for our second part of the contract. We did this because we are convinced that we could use these shares to take the PetaMine to another level.

What will be the overall result?

Plain and simple, if the IPO is successful PetaMine will be much larger and the unit holders will be owner of 15 GH/s per share instead of 8.68 GH/s per share. On top of this the costs of the mine are almost halved.
We are convinced that we all have to look at this project with our long term glasses on. Big dividends in the short run will result in a dead project in the long run. PetaMine cannot simultaneously grow exponentially and pay large dividends at the same time. We want to become and stay one of the large players in Bitcoin mining.

No worries, I obviously missed your reply.

My post further up covered this a bit. The chart you are looking at has a category named Dividends to be paid after IPO or something along those lines. What that number is is the total amount of dividends CryptX will not payout to shareholders and instead use them to pay back the company he bought the hashing power from. It also doesn't show what happens if 0 shares are sold and that is 1957 BTC worth of dividends to be withheld.  So when will the dividends start being paid back to investors? After CryptX pays off all his debts is the answer. We can do a quick estimation that is extremely optimistic at the time frame of when you will start to see a single Satoshi paid out to investors right now.

200 BTC was mined last week so tripple hash rate means triple the coins to 600 BTC expected to be mined. 25% is still gone to hosting fees so that leaves 450 BTC left to be paid out as dividends and reinvestment. But what CryptX did was force all shareholders to give up dividends to pay back the company so it's now 100% reinvestment.

Best case scenario and what you should all hope happens: All 33k shares are sold in this IPO and dividends start to be paid out next month.

Worst case scenario no IPO shares are sold and shareholders are stuck with the bill and must pay 1957 BTC. 1957 / 450 = 4.34 and that number is the amount of weeks until the hardware is paid off from shareholders. It will take just over 4 weeks, but remember this is an optimistic calculation as it doesn't take into account the difficulty increase that will happen. That is 4-5 weeks AFTER IPO ends for a total of 6-7 weeks.

If 1 batch of 10,000 is sold only 1007 BTC need to be repaid and that will end up taking 1007/450 = 2.23 weeks of no dividend payments to pay back the company. But again overly optimistic because it doesn't take into account difficulty rise so in this case it will take 4-5 weeks total to start seeing dividend payments again.

You can see that if all the shares are not sold how bad this will be for shareholders and how outraged you should be about CryptX forcing the bill onto holders via holding dividend payments. But he still gets his 25% hosting fee for his pocket. Start asking questions as to why shareholders have to foot the bill and not just use the 35% reinvestment like how the prospectus says. Ask why there was no shareholder vote on the change in direction of the mine when the prospectus says shareholders have voting rights and a few paragraphs away says that shareholders should vote if they want the dividend/reinvestment %'s changed. I am no longer a shareholder because if I still held any shares in this mine I wouldn't see a penny in dividends until at least a month - month and a half out from now. Shareholders have voting rights, it explicitly says it in the prospectus so use your voting rights to keep the mine how it was and only allow CryptX to use 35% reinvestment to pay back the company, not your dividends.

with the sentiment and the share price, do you think it's time we actually voted with these voting shares? I mean, before the IPO. What do you think cryptx, do you think maybe you should put forward options A, B or C to be voted on?

is there a method to put forward motions? how were the decisions made last year to sell existing hardware and buy next gen etc?

@rdyoung:  Sorry about the confusion.  I mistakenly assumed Anonymousg64 was talking about $$ mined per GH/s, while he meant the cost of hardware.
Realizing my mistake, but not wishing to appear reasonable and just admitting I was pwnt, I replied: