Topic: [HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit) - page 73. (Read 565833 times)

Thank you for your honesty. If you wish to protect people's money, so what do you think is a good alternative to PETA to invest in? 

You're not the first to attack my credibiliy or motives in this thread or others. Allow me to go off topic and address this. Ive been called a troll or sockpuppet countless times before (even caused me to adopt this nick, the irony of which seems to elude most), including I believe by you on several occasions. But how often was I wrong?  Lets review a few of them, feel free to check my posting history to verify my claims:

- Usagi's Nyan A/B/C, BMF, CPA, & co

Lost count of how often I was accused of trolling, being a paid shill and what not, but in the end math doesnt lie and I was dead right and usagi's deceptive house of cards mostly imploded even before GLBSE went offline. Over 17K BTC was raised in the various IPO's, only pocket change was left in BMF  (and even that may have been "lost" when Usagi claimed to have lost his wallet recenly).

- Patrick Harnett starfish/kraken

Once, one of the must trusted people on this forum. Again basic math and logic proved without a doubt he wittingly or unwittingly was running a ponzi scheme on the back off pirate; didnt stop the fanboys from trying to crucify me for months until one day, Patrick vanished and ~10K BTC debt along with him.

- Labcoin

I demonstrated their initial business case to be highly improbable and as evidence trickled in, increasingly argued it was an obvious scam. Took over 8 months and 8000 BTC before I was proven right yet again.

- Gigamining

Pretty much a carbon copy of Cryptx. Petamine "avant la lettre", poster boy for bitcoin securities. Not a scammer, ran/runs his business professionally and best I can tell, honestly, but was simply smart enough to sell his overpriced hashrate to the biggest fools, just like crypx. ROI predictably never happened. GigaVPS was however not smart enough  to consult a lawyer until after I pleaded many times to do so after GLBSE closure. Just as predictably, his lawyer told him what I had been saying all along, and gigamining bonds where turned in to private, non tradable bonds (that never ROI'd).

- AMT

Demonstrated them to be liars from the outset, promising impossible specs and impossible delivery dates. Didnt stop half the forum from attacking me and questioning my motives. Now, more than 6 months later, AMT customer are still waiting in so far they are not involved in legal action against them.

There are many more examples, obsi's and countless other ponzi's, basically anything ever listed on GLBSE that I took the trouble to look in to, but this should give you an idea.

Was I never really wrong?  Well, when it comes to AM, I was sceptical and I always considered it high risk high reward. I did invest a small amount in the IPO and achieved a nice profit, but nowhere near what I could have achieved. Most important reason I didnt bet more and got out so soon, was that I had no trust in the legal viability of the exchange (GLBSE) and had serious doubts about the anonymity of the issuer.The former fear, I was proven right about only weeks later. Friedcat managed that well and investors didnt suffer, but its difficult to call this a bad call on my part.

ANd then about the only time I did get it wrong: MtGox. I was very late in recognizing that they were indeed out of funds and running fractional reserve. I found that very hard to believe based just on their trading fee revenue alone; barring a loss of their entire cold wallet, I couldnt see how they would be illiquid. Now I did not lose a satoshi on gox, I never keep more than a small amount of coins on any exchange for longer than 5 minutes, but I will admit I was tempted to wire some funds and buy some cheap coins on Gox before the collapse. Fully aware it would be high risk. Thats the closest I recall to being dead wrong.

As far as track records go, I will hold this against anyone on this forum. Particularly against yours Dhenson. I wonder how many BTC you would have saved had you listened to me only once in a while.

So you just make an assumption that boards will be sold for premium?  There is no bag hodlers here, noone having over 5% talks here, its just small fishes holding 100-1000 shares who speak and who in fact follow you. But its good to me, every time a share price drops, fills my buy order. So thank you!

Oh! Thank you - that makes the decision a lot easier then

You can only purchase shares of this security via Havelock. There are no direct shares been held as far as I know they are all pass thru via havelock

Is it best to invest my BTC directly onto the site, or invest via Havelock do you guys think?

I thought they were already producing their own bitfury boards.
Of course, the real profit there is selling those boards,  there still seems to be a healthy margin to be had on mining boards if you can build them in volume. But any profit from that will not benefit petamine bag holders,  you didnt invest in a hardware company, you  didnt buy a piece of "cryptx", you invested in a mining bond, which used to be rightfully called a mining turd before everyone forgot how bad those have historically worked.

In fact cryptx could, if he wanted to, sell his own produced boards to all you peta bag holders at whatever inflated price he wanted to, and you'd have no say over it thanks to the reinvestment clause.

All Cryptx need is to announce plans about plans to make its own boards.
Buying minign equipment cheaper than a market price is good, but some people argue this is not enough to be successfull mining security.

Is it just me or is the Buy Support on havelock for petamine looking kinda flimsy?!

But not willing to put your money where your mouth is and take my bet based on the claims Ive actually made.
Nice.


Comforting? You'd have to be a braindead idiot to have lost money on AM. IPO at 0.1 BTC, paid a multiple of that in dividends and still trades 2.5x higher than IPO.  Of course it bubbled, and friedcat dropped the ball after gen 1,  but at least AM had and still has a business plan that doesnt defy math.


I did not. But if I had said it, it would have been as valid as making the same claim with Gigamining or pirate bonds or labcoin. In all those cases early adopters had plenty of exit opportunities at high multiples of the IPO, but unless you were betting on that for short term flipping,  they were fundamentally bad investments. Cryptx is no different in that regard.


Did you actually read what I wrote in that quote? I wasnt endorsing active mining, I was arguing Labcoin was a far more stupid bet. Was I wrong?  labcoin investors lost every last satoshi, activeminer investors at least manage a dollar denominated profit if they want out.  BTW, if you really followed that thread or browsed my posting history, you will also have noticed I predicted ActM would run in to legal trouble for selling unregistered securities, and I was ridiculed by most. Of course, I was proven correct. If you want to find an actual bad prediction of me, look harder. Take your time.

Not quite that simple. Otherwise there's no incentive to bet. the bet is whether in exactly 6 months that will still ring true.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that the bet you're proposing is much less interesting than I have assumed.  While I assumed the bet was meant to justify buying (or at least holding) PETA @ current price, the one you're suggesting does no such thing.

But as far as you're concerned, the project is a success--your shares are worth more than you paid for them, and you've collected some divs.  If you cashed out now, you would make a profit.  I don't think anyone is debating that.  The wisdom of holding, though...

So? you know how markets work. how do you propose profit in perpuity for all involved. in 6 month period no less?
there's a guy who buys bitcoin at $450 last month, someone who brought at $650 2 weeks ago, and someone who brought at $580 today.
Now if we were setting a bet about positive ROI at a fixed date (today) there's only one winner on that strict condition. Doesn't mean there will only be one winner.
you can say anyone beside the $650 guy made a bad investment, which would be true only in that timeframe. the trio might well all make more than 100% in longer timespan but it's not important, if you are arguing that anyone buying throughout the month will lose money you are saying the $450 guy can't make more than 100% which has already been proven false. in this case, I'm the $450 guy trying to  work out what subset of investors he's addressing

So the bet you wish to make is basically "over the next 6 months, I won't lose more than I have made up to now."  Overall, the project included an influx of second IPO money, with shares selling at a premium over the first.  For the project to be deemed a success, you should include those shares in your calculations.  Otherwise, you are simply profiting from the n00bs =)

Edit:  If we ignore things like (second IPO money), most ponzi schemes could be considered "successful projects."

Not looking for exit, passed some nice ones a while back that could of been taken if that was the case.

perhaps you really would have been better warning AM investors who brought at 4.5btc, they need a bit of comforting after 2200+% losses more so than buyers here. I'm sure you would of been around at peta IPO and called it a bad investment like icebreaker, deprived et al. would of looked foolish for a while.
easier to wait for a decline and try the swooping vulture approach. broken clocks and all that.


good play on the activemining confidence by the way, happy to take some lessons from you  

1) Correct, which is why the terms weren't stated as being anytime prior to 6 months, otherwise I'd take the 10btc off his hands right now

2) Also correct, but that's the bet I'm making with myself by holding. The bet I'd be making with a 3rd party would go something like this "((the sum total of the future dividends) and (cash-out price of your "holdings" in exactly 6 months is going to be) > (than today's cash-out price)." to do it anytime before or anytime after would make no sense for him.

It's true that in exactly 6 months it might be possible to earn less than today, or tomorrow or last week from combined value of shares and accumulated dividends. making holding a bad investment over selling (reverse is also true where selling at 122% gain for instance over waiting for 144% gain would of been a bad move ) but we don't need to factor any of that in. as long as positive ROI is reached from buying and sitting on your ass till the date specified, in general the project cannot be claimed to have been a bad investment (again not talking about everyone just a specific case)  

Im telling people today they are idiots for buying in at IPO price or for not cashing out, I dont have a time machine to go back to august of last year and tell them then; or make the bet; nor did I claim that back then. My time machine also doesnt allow me to go back and tell AM investors to cash out at 1BTC, but  I am not calling anyone an idiot for buying AM shares, didnt say it back it then, not saying it  today at todays market  price. AM current price seems reasonable to me,  it may or may not pan out, I have no idea since I cant just get a very good estimate on the ROI by estimating difficulty . And that makes it completely different from cryptx. Grade school math shows its virtually impossible cryptx will achieve a positive ROI at todays price,  unless difficulty growth would spectacularly grind to halt. Hint, not happening yet:
Estimated Next Difficulty:   13,400,877,470 (+13.99%)
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

Anyway  I dont understand your reasoning, you are unwilling to bet based on todays price, yet claim you are not selling your shares so you are already betting based on today's price.. So which is it, you think you will profit in 6 months  compared to today's situation or you wont? Or are you just hoping for some irrational bump to get out in the coming weeks?

1.  If you are a BTCT investor, than there is no need to wait--your investment was a success if you cash out now (hopefully you're a small investor, and there won't be too much slippage).  But only if you cash out now.

If you don't, you are effectively making a second bet, that being: "((the sum total of the future dividends) and (future cash-out price of your "holdings" is going to be) > (than today's cash-out price)."

If you don't want to take the second bet, it's irrational to hold.

Point 1- no I can't see another reason. It goes without saying it would have to be determined reasonably and objectively. I'd also not be willing to do gigamining style because headache, that's fair enough.

Point 2- define original

adjective
1.
present or existing from the beginning; first or earliest.

So BTCT.co investors were indeed the earliest, the first, and existed since the beginning- unlike havelock buyers.
so we go by that price,  (but obviously factoring in 10:1 split) . There weren't private investors prior to btct listing.
if it's no dice there then who are you preaching to? just the ones who brought above 0.0975? why not have a word with anyone who brought AM above 1btc? nobody there is getting 100% of their money back in 6 months, and they'd have to be dumb to bet on it.

Point 3 - if havelock closed down, you would expect a negative knock on effect for all securities, it's well documented in the past I'm sure you already know so no need for references.

if cryptx was delisted, it would have to be for the reason you stated, and therefore again, you'd expect prices to tumble- it's also been documented in the past.  How much is neobeeq worth these days? on both of these cases it's good for you, even if they don't become worthless.

Basically the specific question for you is: do you think will I personally will be in a position to gain more or less than 100% of my original investment in exactly 6 months? (less= bad investment more=good investment) and are you willing to bet on it.

Because I am already betting on that by investing, and willing to bet you that my bet will be successful. If you're not willing to bet on that my bet won't be succesfull, I know that any of your posts about how horrendous of an investment this is must be aimed towards saving someone else, and can just skip over them rather than trying to refute them

To be fair, today's value isn't .095, it's .075