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Topic: Health and Religion - page 9. (Read 210888 times)

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 29, 2019, 10:14:24 AM

Why do I even bother?  I am guessing you don't know much except that Jesus is your king. LOL.

Oh, we know quite a bit about our origins, and nothing matches your fairy tale.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/world/human-origins-botswana-scn-trnd/index.html

You don't need logic to make your worldview coherent, magic and ancient myths is all you need.

Good luck.  I am done.  You 'win'.


That's a good question. Why do you bother? Knowing Jesus as my King places me way above you in knowledge. But since you can't get this into your head, why do you bother?

All that stuff that you suggest is knowledge about our origins - NOW GET THIS - when you look at the actual writings by the actual scientific investigators, they all say that they THINK that this is the way it is. You are basing your beliefs on the kinds of "knowledge" that has proven over and over in the past to be faulty. And they say it because they don't say that this is the way it was, rather they say that they think that this is the way it was.

I am, however, glad that you have a religion... even if it is that religion. It is a starting point for you. There is still chance that you will remember my and CoinCube's words when you are so low that you want to commit suicide. And maybe, just maybe, you will wake up to salvation.

Cool

Maybe because I care about people, and because I care about what is actually true.  Take care, my friend.

“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg

There isn't any "without religion." Nobody can get away from religion. The closest they can come is to say that they don't have religion. So saying, they have made non-religion-expression to be their religion... or at least part of it.

We might appear to be friends in some ways. We might even appear to be brothers when considering that all people came from the same prehistoric woman in the distant past. But we aren't brothers, really, and we are enemies, although not violent enemies.

This will be proven out at the return of Jesus when He sentences all people in the formal Judgment. He will place His people - the sheep - on His right, and His enemies (the children of the evil one, Satan) - the goats - on his left. He will send the goats into the eternal destruction that they asked for by the way they did what they did on Earth.

The only way to do the good required by God here on Earth, is to understand that God exists, and to do the good out of that understanding... having faith that God will do as He says.

Until you let yourself realize that God exists, and then have faith in Him, we are enemies, even though we are not violent enemies in this life.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 29, 2019, 01:30:16 AM
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg

“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
October 28, 2019, 07:23:33 PM

Why do I even bother?  I am guessing you don't know much except that Jesus is your king. LOL.

Oh, we know quite a bit about our origins, and nothing matches your fairy tale.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/world/human-origins-botswana-scn-trnd/index.html

You don't need logic to make your worldview coherent, magic and ancient myths is all you need.

Good luck.  I am done.  You 'win'.


That's a good question. Why do you bother? Knowing Jesus as my King places me way above you in knowledge. But since you can't get this into your head, why do you bother?

All that stuff that you suggest is knowledge about our origins - NOW GET THIS - when you look at the actual writings by the actual scientific investigators, they all say that they THINK that this is the way it is. You are basing your beliefs on the kinds of "knowledge" that has proven over and over in the past to be faulty. And they say it because they don't say that this is the way it was, rather they say that they think that this is the way it was.

I am, however, glad that you have a religion... even if it is that religion. It is a starting point for you. There is still chance that you will remember my and CoinCube's words when you are so low that you want to commit suicide. And maybe, just maybe, you will wake up to salvation.

Cool

Maybe because I care about people, and because I care about what is actually true.  Take care, my friend.

“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 28, 2019, 06:46:39 PM

Why do I even bother?  I am guessing you don't know much except that Jesus is your king. LOL.

Oh, we know quite a bit about our origins, and nothing matches your fairy tale.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/world/human-origins-botswana-scn-trnd/index.html

You don't need logic to make your worldview coherent, magic and ancient myths is all you need.

Good luck.  I am done.  You 'win'.


That's a good question. Why do you bother? Knowing Jesus as my King places me way above you in knowledge. But since you can't get this into your head, why do you bother?

All that stuff that you suggest is knowledge about our origins - NOW GET THIS - when you look at the actual writings by the actual scientific investigators, they all say that they THINK that this is the way it is. You are basing your beliefs on the kinds of "knowledge" that has proven over and over in the past to be faulty. And they say it because they don't say that this is the way it was, rather they say that they think that this is the way it was.

I am, however, glad that you have a religion... even if it is that religion. It is a starting point for you. There is still chance that you will remember my and CoinCube's words when you are so low that you want to commit suicide. And maybe, just maybe, you will wake up to salvation.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
October 28, 2019, 05:48:15 PM

What makes you think that:
1. Eve was created?;
2. The making of Eve was an afterthought?;
3. Adam was created?;
4. Adam originally had a penis and testicles?.

You really need to dig into it to see that what you say is assumptions.

Cool

I don't think any of the stuff Bible says happened, actually happened.  
But I am just pointing out the nonsensical part of the Christian creation story so that people like you can examine it for themselves.

1. Genesis 2:22 - God made a woman from Adam's rib bone

2. Genesis 2:7 - God made man from dirt
    Genesis 2:19 - God made different beasts as a companion for man, Adam rejected them all
    Genesis 2:22 - Then God created a woman from Adam's rib bone

The chronology provided in the Bible suggests that God after creating a man, thought it would a good idea to create a companion for him, but was not sure what creature man would like, so he started creating all kinds of animals then after all were rejected by Adam, out of the blue, he decided that he can form a woman from Adam's rib bone.  Eve was way down on the list of afterthoughts. LOL.

3. Genesis 2:7 - made man from dirt
4. Adam was created as a man.  All men have penises and testicles.

Anyway, keep reading it maybe eventually you will get it, that the Bible was written by a primitive, uneducated person who thought that life can be breathed into inanimate objects.

Just read this book for once and think for yourself. Logical inconsistencies are all over this book.

1. That's why He is God. Way advanced even over the ability of man to even think, to say nothing about what man can do.

2A. People still are made from all the materials found in the ground... dirt.
2B. All right. So only you don't have a pet dog or cat or goldfish or parakeet. Notice that Adam didn't reject them. He even named them.
2C. See "1" above.

God doesn't think the way we do, so nobody can know that the chronology suggests anything that we might think. The man was perfect at that time. His thinking was good enough for him to determine on his own that he needed a different companion besides the animals... one greater than the animals... more like himself. No afterthought after all. Simply a progression of events.

3. See "2A" above.

4. At the time of his creation, Adam was perfect. This means that we don't know what he was like, because there has never been anyone other than Adam and Eve who was perfect (except Jesus, of course. And traditions says that Jesus didn't have any children.). We have no model of perfection to see what perfection in a human is like. We don't know that a perfect man would have penis and testicles. Keep on guessing.

The Bible was written by people who were more intelligent than people of today. How do we know? Only devolution since the past. Moses, who wrote the things listed above, was a prince of Egypt, with access to writings from the Beginning... writings that have long since crumbled to dust. You are one of the great pieces of evidence of devolution. You are almost too ignorant to recognize that you (like all humans) are a religious being.

Cool

Why do I even bother?  I am guessing you don't know much except that Jesus is your king. LOL.

Oh, we know quite a bit about our origins, and nothing matches your fairy tale.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/world/human-origins-botswana-scn-trnd/index.html

You don't need logic to make your worldview coherent, magic and ancient myths is all you need.

Good luck.  I am done.  You 'win'.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 28, 2019, 03:37:31 PM

What makes you think that:
1. Eve was created?;
2. The making of Eve was an afterthought?;
3. Adam was created?;
4. Adam originally had a penis and testicles?.

You really need to dig into it to see that what you say is assumptions.

Cool

I don't think any of the stuff Bible says happened, actually happened.  
But I am just pointing out the nonsensical part of the Christian creation story so that people like you can examine it for themselves.

1. Genesis 2:22 - God made a woman from Adam's rib bone

2. Genesis 2:7 - God made man from dirt
    Genesis 2:19 - God made different beasts as a companion for man, Adam rejected them all
    Genesis 2:22 - Then God created a woman from Adam's rib bone

The chronology provided in the Bible suggests that God after creating a man, thought it would a good idea to create a companion for him, but was not sure what creature man would like, so he started creating all kinds of animals then after all were rejected by Adam, out of the blue, he decided that he can form a woman from Adam's rib bone.  Eve was way down on the list of afterthoughts. LOL.

3. Genesis 2:7 - made man from dirt
4. Adam was created as a man.  All men have penises and testicles.

Anyway, keep reading it maybe eventually you will get it, that the Bible was written by a primitive, uneducated person who thought that life can be breathed into inanimate objects.

Just read this book for once and think for yourself. Logical inconsistencies are all over this book.

1. That's why He is God. Way advanced even over the ability of man to even think, to say nothing about what man can do.

2A. People still are made from all the materials found in the ground... dirt.
2B. All right. So only you don't have a pet dog or cat or goldfish or parakeet. Notice that Adam didn't reject them. He even named them.
2C. See "1" above.

God doesn't think the way we do, so nobody can know that the chronology suggests anything that we might think. The man was perfect at that time. His thinking was good enough for him to determine on his own that he needed a different companion besides the animals... one greater than the animals... more like himself. No afterthought after all. Simply a progression of events.

3. See "2A" above.

4. At the time of his creation, Adam was perfect. This means that we don't know what he was like, because there has never been anyone other than Adam and Eve who was perfect (except Jesus, of course. And traditions says that Jesus didn't have any children.). We have no model of perfection to see what perfection in a human is like. We don't know that a perfect man would have penis and testicles. Keep on guessing.

The Bible was written by people who were more intelligent than people of today. How do we know? Only devolution since the past. Moses, who wrote the things listed above, was a prince of Egypt, with access to writings from the Beginning... writings that have long since crumbled to dust. You are one of the great pieces of evidence of devolution. You are almost too ignorant to recognize that you (like all humans) are a religious being.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
October 28, 2019, 12:20:52 PM

Quite the opposite. In war, a group of soldiers is better than one soldier alone.

You need to get together with some friends who think like you do, and hold weekly services. If you don't, you will ultimately become bitter with your ungodly stance in life.

After all, just because you say that you are not a religious person, people are religious beings, and you can't get away from religion in yourself. As I have said in the past, you simply have a religion of non-religion. Maintain your health by "worshiping" with those who believe as you do. No man is an island.

Cool

Sure man.

I will leave you with one final thought.

If Eve was created as an afterthought, why was Adam created with a penis and testicles?


What makes you think that:
1. Eve was created?;
2. The making of Eve was an afterthought?;
3. Adam was created?;
4. Adam originally had a penis and testicles?.

You really need to dig into it to see that what you say is assumptions.

Cool

I don't think any of the stuff Bible says happened, actually happened.  
But I am just pointing out the nonsensical part of the Christian creation story so that people like you can examine it for themselves.

1. Genesis 2:22 - God made a woman from Adam's rib bone

2. Genesis 2:7 - God made man from dirt
    Genesis 2:19 - God made different beasts as a companion for man, Adam rejected them all
    Genesis 2:22 - Then God created a woman from Adam's rib bone

The chronology provided in the Bible suggests that God after creating a man, thought it would a good idea to create a companion for him, but was not sure what creature man would like, so he started creating all kinds of animals then after all were rejected by Adam, out of the blue, he decided that he can form a woman from Adam's rib bone.  Eve was way down on the list of afterthoughts. LOL.

3. Genesis 2:7 - made man from dirt
4. Adam was created as a man.  All men have penises and testicles.

Anyway, keep reading it maybe eventually you will get it, that the Bible was written by a primitive, uneducated person who thought that life can be breathed into inanimate objects.

Just read this book for once and think for yourself. Logical inconsistencies are all over this book.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 28, 2019, 11:49:52 AM

Quite the opposite. In war, a group of soldiers is better than one soldier alone.

You need to get together with some friends who think like you do, and hold weekly services. If you don't, you will ultimately become bitter with your ungodly stance in life.

After all, just because you say that you are not a religious person, people are religious beings, and you can't get away from religion in yourself. As I have said in the past, you simply have a religion of non-religion. Maintain your health by "worshiping" with those who believe as you do. No man is an island.

Cool

Sure man.

I will leave you with one final thought.

If Eve was created as an afterthought, why was Adam created with a penis and testicles?


What makes you think that:
1. Eve was created?;
2. The making of Eve was an afterthought?;
3. Adam was created?;
4. Adam originally had a penis and testicles?.

You really need to dig into it to see that what you say is assumptions.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
October 28, 2019, 10:34:08 AM


Enjoy your life a bit.  Relax, nothing bad is going to happen to you because you think Jesus did not actually exist or because you stop going to church and giving them your hard-earned money.


But most of all, nothing bad will happen to you if you stop trying to save someone who is unwilling to be saved.

You have worked at warning him of the deficiencies of his ways, and he has adamantly turned against your warnings.

Somewhere along the line it is time to stop. It's time to move on to the joy of reaching those who want to understand. It's time to encourage your own faith by letting go of the folly of others.

Salvation is for you. Those others who tend to reject their salvation, need to be left behind so that they don't drag you down into their disaster.

Be at peace. Encourage yourself with Bible readings, that the Lord will reward you for trying. Move on to the many who will listen.

Absolutely maintain an open heart for af_newbie just in case he does turn and return to you.

Go in the peace and love and joy of your Lord. Hebrews 12:1b,2:
1bAnd let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

See you there, CoinCube.

Cool

What are you afraid of, BADecker?  Let him think for himself.  He does not need your encouragement.

On many levels, I am pretty sure he does not share your devotion and lack of attention to detail.

Independent thinking is discouraged in your church, isn't it?

Anyway, as you say, may the Lord be with you.


Quite the opposite. In war, a group of soldiers is better than one soldier alone.

You need to get together with some friends who think like you do, and hold weekly services. If you don't, you will ultimately become bitter with your ungodly stance in life.

After all, just because you say that you are not a religious person, people are religious beings, and you can't get away from religion in yourself. As I have said in the past, you simply have a religion of non-religion. Maintain your health by "worshiping" with those who believe as you do. No man is an island.

Cool

Sure man.

I will leave you with one final thought.

If Eve was created as an afterthought, why was Adam created with a penis and testicles?

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 28, 2019, 09:35:56 AM


Enjoy your life a bit.  Relax, nothing bad is going to happen to you because you think Jesus did not actually exist or because you stop going to church and giving them your hard-earned money.


But most of all, nothing bad will happen to you if you stop trying to save someone who is unwilling to be saved.

You have worked at warning him of the deficiencies of his ways, and he has adamantly turned against your warnings.

Somewhere along the line it is time to stop. It's time to move on to the joy of reaching those who want to understand. It's time to encourage your own faith by letting go of the folly of others.

Salvation is for you. Those others who tend to reject their salvation, need to be left behind so that they don't drag you down into their disaster.

Be at peace. Encourage yourself with Bible readings, that the Lord will reward you for trying. Move on to the many who will listen.

Absolutely maintain an open heart for af_newbie just in case he does turn and return to you.

Go in the peace and love and joy of your Lord. Hebrews 12:1b,2:
1bAnd let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

See you there, CoinCube.

Cool

What are you afraid of, BADecker?  Let him think for himself.  He does not need your encouragement.

On many levels, I am pretty sure he does not share your devotion and lack of attention to detail.

Independent thinking is discouraged in your church, isn't it?

Anyway, as you say, may the Lord be with you.


Quite the opposite. In war, a group of soldiers is better than one soldier alone.

You need to get together with some friends who think like you do, and hold weekly services. If you don't, you will ultimately become bitter with your ungodly stance in life.

After all, just because you say that you are not a religious person, people are religious beings, and you can't get away from religion in yourself. As I have said in the past, you simply have a religion of non-religion. Maintain your health by "worshiping" with those who believe as you do. No man is an island.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
October 27, 2019, 10:02:06 PM


Enjoy your life a bit.  Relax, nothing bad is going to happen to you because you think Jesus did not actually exist or because you stop going to church and giving them your hard-earned money.


But most of all, nothing bad will happen to you if you stop trying to save someone who is unwilling to be saved.

You have worked at warning him of the deficiencies of his ways, and he has adamantly turned against your warnings.

Somewhere along the line it is time to stop. It's time to move on to the joy of reaching those who want to understand. It's time to encourage your own faith by letting go of the folly of others.

Salvation is for you. Those others who tend to reject their salvation, need to be left behind so that they don't drag you down into their disaster.

Be at peace. Encourage yourself with Bible readings, that the Lord will reward you for trying. Move on to the many who will listen.

Absolutely maintain an open heart for af_newbie just in case he does turn and return to you.

Go in the peace and love and joy of your Lord. Hebrews 12:1b,2:
1bAnd let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

See you there, CoinCube.

Cool

What are you afraid of, BADecker?  Let him think for himself.  He does not need your encouragement.

On many levels, I am pretty sure he does not share your devotion and lack of attention to detail.

Independent thinking is discouraged in your church, isn't it?

Anyway, as you say, may the Lord be with you.

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 27, 2019, 08:05:16 PM


Enjoy your life a bit.  Relax, nothing bad is going to happen to you because you think Jesus did not actually exist or because you stop going to church and giving them your hard-earned money.


But most of all, nothing bad will happen to you if you stop trying to save someone who is unwilling to be saved.

You have worked at warning him of the deficiencies of his ways, and he has adamantly turned against your warnings.

Somewhere along the line it is time to stop. It's time to move on to the joy of reaching those who want to understand. It's time to encourage your own faith by letting go of the folly of others.

Salvation is for you. Those others who tend to reject their salvation, need to be left behind so that they don't drag you down into their disaster.

Be at peace. Encourage yourself with Bible readings, that the Lord will reward you for trying. Move on to the many who will listen.

Absolutely maintain an open heart for af_newbie just in case he does turn and return to you.

Go in the peace and love and joy of your Lord. Hebrews 12:1b,2:
1bAnd let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

See you there, CoinCube.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
October 27, 2019, 07:41:35 PM

To be happy: If twisted to extremes can lead one to selfish pleasure seeking and hedonism prioritizing ones happiness over all else.

To desire kids who thrive amidst competition: Twisted this towards evil takes one to a tribalistic mindset and in extreme cases a desire for eugenic supremacy by whatever means necessary.

To help others: Is noble but it is also a cornerstone of many flawed ideals such as communism and the argument that the need to help others requires we take via force from those who possess abundance to fund the redistribution.

Your stated purposes are all good ones but they are a floating list without a foundation or at least without a foundation you have shared. A solid foundation requires a rational criteria for choosing between them when they conflict as well as a structure that will keep these desires healthy and limit excess when opportunities for excess arise.  


My foundation is based on my education, both formal and informal.  Reason and logic are my lighthouses.

It is wrong to teach children that they will see their loved ones in heaven after they die.

That is what these cults of the afterlife are all about, plus the fear of hell sprinkled here and there and you have your foundation and your "lighthouse".

It is highly immoral to scare children about hell.  Both hell and heaven do not exist.  We went where they supposed to be to check.
Nada, no hell and no heaven.

Your Christian foundation is built on a fantasy.  Hardly a solid foundation. LOL.

Ok af_newbie you did not really address my critique but that is ok.

Its not wrong to teach something that is true and the assertion of Christianity is one of truth. You don't believe in that truth so you are unsurprisingly not Christian.

I have shared with you the path that lead me away from beliefs not entirely dissimilar to yours and towards Christianity. Perhaps someday you will find that reasoning helpful. More likely it be like the passing of a song something noted and quickly forgotten.

Many of us must walk for a time with our eyes closed before we learn to open them. I was such an individual. Perhaps you will be too.

Best Wishes

Coincube, I did not think it was worthwhile, but here you go:

To be happy: happiness can lead to hedonism - as opposed to mental masturbation of hell and sin Christianity offers?  Humans are pleasure-seeking animals in case you forgot this.  What is wrong with hedonism?  "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness", remember that.

To desire kids who thrive amidst competition: well, that is not exactly what I said. I said: to have kids, (comma), and help them to be rational thinkers, to help them thrive amidst competition.  I agree that genetic technology will push some parents to buy designer babies, so what?  The desire to have kids and help them succeed is a noble goal, IMHO.  Today, we are affecting the natural selection anyway.  Genetic testing, AI matchmaking, etc.  We don't live in the 18th-century Amish vacuum.

To help others: the desire to help and the actual action are voluntary.  A noble goal, so what that the communists used this in their propaganda. I am not a communist. Helping when you can help should be as natural as breathing.  You can be a selfish prick, but I think it is better to be a nice guy.
For you and the people around you.

I think you are skeptical of progressive values, or anything that does not fit into your 'Christian model' because you are afraid that it might invalidate your position.  You are insecure, your model and I think, by extension, your ego needs protection.  That is what you are doing, protecting yourself from these 'evil' influences.

Enjoy your life a bit.  Relax, nothing bad is going to happen to you because you think Jesus did not actually exist or because you stop going to church and giving them your hard-earned money.

legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 27, 2019, 06:37:07 PM

Your stated purposes are all good ones but they are a floating list without a foundation or at least without a foundation you have shared. A solid foundation requires a rational criteria for choosing between them when they conflict as well as a structure that will keep these desires healthy and limit excess when opportunities for excess arise.  


My foundation is based on my education, both formal and informal.  Reason and logic are my lighthouses.

It is wrong to teach children that they will see their loved ones in heaven after they die.

That is what these cults of the afterlife are all about, plus the fear of hell sprinkled here and there and you have your foundation and your "lighthouse".

It is highly immoral to scare children about hell.  Both hell and heaven do not exist.  We went where they supposed to be to check.
Nada, no hell and no heaven.

Your Christian foundation is built on a fantasy.  Hardly a solid foundation. LOL.

Ok af_newbie you did not really address my critique but that is ok.

Its not wrong to teach something that is true and the assertion of Christianity is one of truth. You don't believe in that truth so you are unsurprisingly not Christian.

I have shared with you the path that lead me away from beliefs not entirely dissimilar to yours and towards Christianity. Perhaps someday you will find that reasoning helpful. More likely it will be like the passing of a song something noted and quickly forgotten.

Many of us must walk for a time with our eyes closed before we learn to open them. I was such an individual. Perhaps you will be too.

Best Wishes
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
October 27, 2019, 05:47:36 PM
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 27, 2019, 11:36:26 AM

As for the purpose of life, for me, the purpose of MY life is to be happy, love people close to me, have kids, and help them become independent thinkers who can survive in our very complicated and competitive world.  I love to learn new stuff, I am always 'a fucking newbie', aka af_newbie in any new field, I start to explore.  That is why I am here in this world.  To learn and help others in my life.


Very sad story about the little girl.  Any purpose can be twisted if isolated and misunderstood. I don't know the entirety of the circumstances that lead to the tragedy but I would agree that some religious groups focus on heaven with an intensity that places them at risk of neglecting the here and now. This is an area where many Christians can in my opinion learn something from Judaism.  

All moral precepts can if isolated and misunderstood be twisted into evil. Take the purposes you shared. They are all good things but each in isolation can also be twisted.

To be happy: If twisted to extremes can lead one to selfish pleasure seeking and hedonism prioritizing ones happiness over all else.

To desire kids who thrive amidst competition: Twisted this towards evil takes one to a tribalistic mindset and in extreme cases a desire for eugenic supremacy by whatever means necessary.

To help others: Is noble but it is also a cornerstone of many flawed ideals such as communism and the argument that the need to help others requires we take via force from those who possess abundance to fund the redistribution.

Even the desire to learn and invent new things: This desire most certainly advances human technology and power but it also requires a simultaneous increase in human wisdom to be healthy. Technological innovation alone bereft of wisdom simply simply opens the door to extreme and new forms of evil.
"Slaughterbots" | Presented by ALTER
New Robot Makes Soldiers Obsolete (Bosstown Dynamics)

Your stated purposes are all good ones but they are a floating list without a foundation or at least without a foundation you have shared. A solid foundation requires a rational criteria for choosing between them when they conflict as well as a structure that will keep these desires healthy and limit excess when opportunities for excess arise.  

In regards to your argument that you cannot have moral improvement with Christianity because the Bible is fixed and unchanging here is what C.S. Lewis wrote in response to this critique.

"Q: Doesn’t tying ourselves to an immutable (unchanging) moral code cut off all progress and acquiesce in stagnation?"

"A: Let us strip the question of the illegitimate emotional power it derives from the word 'stagnation' with its suggestion of puddles and mantled pools. If water stands too long it stinks. To infer thence that whatever stands long must be unwholesome is to be the victim of metaphor. Space does not stink because it has preserved its three dimensions from the beginning. The square on the hypotenuse has not gone moldy by continuing to equal the sum of the squares on the other two sides. Love is not dishonored by constancy, and when we wash our hands we are seeking stagnation and "putting the clock back," artificially restoring our hands to the status quo in which they began the day and resisting the natural trend of events which would increase their dirtiness steadily from our birth to our death.

For the emotive term 'stagnant' let us substitute the descriptive term 'permanent.' Does a permanent moral standard preclude progress? On the contrary, except on the supposition of a changeless standard, progress is impossible. If good is a fixed point, it is at least possible that we should get nearer and nearer to it; but if the terminus is as mobile as the train, how can the train progress towards it? Our ideas of the good may change, but they cannot change either for the better or the worse if there is no absolute and immutable good to which they can recede. We can go on getting a sum more and more nearly right only if the one perfectly right is "stagnant".

And yet it will be said, I have just admitted that our ideas of good may improve. How is this to be reconciled with the view that "traditional morality" is a depositum fidei [deposit of revelations] which cannot be deserted? The answer can be understood if we compare a real moral advance with a mere innovation. From the Stoic and Confucian, "Do not do to others what you would not like them to do to you"; to the Christian, "Do as you would be done by" is a real advance. The morality of Nietzsche is a mere innovation. The first is an advance because no one who did not admit the validity of the old maxim could see reason for accepting the new one, and anyone who accepted the old would at once recognize the new as an extension of the same principle. If he rejected it, he would have to reject it as a superfluity, something that went too far, not as something simply heterogeneous from his own ideas of value. But the Nietzschean ethic can be accepted only if we are ready to scrap traditional morals as a mere error and then to put ourselves in a position where we can find no ground for any value judgements at all. It is the difference between a man who says to us: "You like your vegetables moderately fresh; why not grow your own and have them perfectly fresh?" and a man who says, "Throw away that loaf and try eating bricks and centipedes instead." Real moral advances, in fine [=in conclusion], are made from within the existing moral tradition and in the spirit of that tradition and can be understood only in the light of that tradition. The outsider who has rejected the tradition cannot judge them. He has, as Aristotle said, no arche, no premises"

The lighthouse of Christianity shines because it is based on the reality of an objective & universal Moral Code that we know & have broken. It is this truth which makes Christianity's offer of forgiveness, & its gift of supernatural help towards keeping that Moral Code, so incredible.

On Ethics by C.S. Lewis
legendary
Activity: 2702
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October 27, 2019, 08:39:44 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2476751/Polish-girl-Maria-Kislo-12-hangs-missed-dead-father.html

That is what religious dogma can do to you.  It is as dangerous as heroin.

Just don't do it.  It can really mess you up.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 27, 2019, 08:29:17 AM
Being too religious is like one with a blindfold on. Your completely blind to the other aspects of reality and stops you from asking certain conflicting questions about your faith. You see little or no truth in the facts outside your professed faith and tend to judge and segregate a lot.
Religion brings creates barrier by means of taboos in certain health practices which might be helpful and as a result, it becomes a step backwards on new helpful trends in modern day medicine.
Religion is a good emotional too depending on how you choose to view this in your locality. It can either brighten you up and make you all cheerful or depressed.

Except that being open-minded about other aspects of reality, especially when you can't see the dangers of that other reality, might mean you are not being religious enough.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1288
Merit: 504
October 26, 2019, 09:38:26 PM
Being too religious is like one with a blindfold on. Your completely blind to the other aspects of reality and stops you from asking certain conflicting questions about your faith. You see little or no truth in the facts outside your professed faith and tend to judge and segregate a lot.
Religion brings creates barrier by means of taboos in certain health practices which might be helpful and as a result, it becomes a step backwards on new helpful trends in modern day medicine.
Religion is a good emotional too depending on how you choose to view this in your locality. It can either brighten you up and make you all cheerful or depressed.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 26, 2019, 05:53:22 PM

The void is filled with reason and logic.  That is the only way to stay sane, make rational and moral decisions.

BTW, there is nothing to reject.  The 'God' proposition does not even justify serious consideration.  There is no definition of it.
There is absolutely no evidence to consider.

Every single religious myth (yours included) is based on the cultural beliefs of the people who created it.
...

Reason and logic are process not purpose. They are tools used to acquire and retain power. Power over the world power and power over ourselves. The pursuit of power is not an ends it is a means.

You imply we should reject God in favor of accumulating as much individual knowledge and thus power as possible but to what end?

The Christian goal is moral improvement forgiveness of and eventual freedom from sin, and oneness and harmony with God in the world to come. You have chosen to reject that and have replaced it with...

That’s just it you haven’t replaced it with anything you’ve just created a void. It’s that void that drives many to suicide and others to insane ideologies and depression. You can try to fill it with something artificial. You can create some purpose maybe sex, money or perhaps scientific know how. Whatever you choose, however, will forever be an artificial construct something you purposely constructed and something that can be torn down and discarded whenever the mood shifts.

You feel the ‘God' proposition does not justify serious consideration. I respectfully but profoundly disagree.

Your purpose in life is Christianity?  Jesus fucking Christ, you are wasting your life.  I thought you asked what fills the void when one does not have faith in the supernatural and the afterlife, how one explains the unknowns of this world?  The answer is still reason and logic.

As for the purpose of life, for me, the purpose of MY life is to be happy, love people close to me, have kids, and help them become independent thinkers who can survive in our very complicated and competitive world.  I love to learn new stuff, I am always 'a fucking newbie', aka af_newbie in any new field, I start to explore.  That is why I am here in this world.  To learn and help others in my life.

There is no void, I am whole, LOL.

BTW, you cannot have moral improvement with Christianity without changing (or ignoring) the moral rules specified in the Bible.  The same goes for all other religions.  That is why they have to go through revisions or 'transformations', LOL.  Basically, ignore what 'God said'.
The only idiots who think chopping heads, stoning and burning people alive is STILL a good idea are the Muslims.  Christians stopped doing that about two centuries ago.  I think the last burning alive was in Germany in 1835.

I wish people would be honest with themselves, admit they were conned, see what religions really are, a way to control people and extract money from them.

Instead, some people lock themselves into this religious thought prison and cannot admit they have made a mistake; that their God fucked up on more than one occasion.

Banning slavery should have been in the 10 commandments.   Some, weak-ass God you have there.  A 5-year-old child knows that slavery is wrong.  He supposed to be God for fuck's sake.  

But the reality is that God was just some guy in Judea who wrote what he thought was a good idea at that time.  Well, it was never a good idea.  It was wrong back then, and it is wrong now.  

Mr. God knew squat about psychology so to him if there was no blood there was no harm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5ZLuRYp8gk

Everything you have and are comes from God. Even your rebellion against God is allowed and upheld by God because he is giving you what you want. So, you are gifted by God. To make you really good, simply be thankful to Him.

Cool
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