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Topic: Health and Religion - page 9. (Read 211012 times)

legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 28, 2019, 11:49:52 AM

Quite the opposite. In war, a group of soldiers is better than one soldier alone.

You need to get together with some friends who think like you do, and hold weekly services. If you don't, you will ultimately become bitter with your ungodly stance in life.

After all, just because you say that you are not a religious person, people are religious beings, and you can't get away from religion in yourself. As I have said in the past, you simply have a religion of non-religion. Maintain your health by "worshiping" with those who believe as you do. No man is an island.

Cool

Sure man.

I will leave you with one final thought.

If Eve was created as an afterthought, why was Adam created with a penis and testicles?


What makes you think that:
1. Eve was created?;
2. The making of Eve was an afterthought?;
3. Adam was created?;
4. Adam originally had a penis and testicles?.

You really need to dig into it to see that what you say is assumptions.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 28, 2019, 09:35:56 AM


Enjoy your life a bit.  Relax, nothing bad is going to happen to you because you think Jesus did not actually exist or because you stop going to church and giving them your hard-earned money.


But most of all, nothing bad will happen to you if you stop trying to save someone who is unwilling to be saved.

You have worked at warning him of the deficiencies of his ways, and he has adamantly turned against your warnings.

Somewhere along the line it is time to stop. It's time to move on to the joy of reaching those who want to understand. It's time to encourage your own faith by letting go of the folly of others.

Salvation is for you. Those others who tend to reject their salvation, need to be left behind so that they don't drag you down into their disaster.

Be at peace. Encourage yourself with Bible readings, that the Lord will reward you for trying. Move on to the many who will listen.

Absolutely maintain an open heart for af_newbie just in case he does turn and return to you.

Go in the peace and love and joy of your Lord. Hebrews 12:1b,2:
1bAnd let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

See you there, CoinCube.

Cool

What are you afraid of, BADecker?  Let him think for himself.  He does not need your encouragement.

On many levels, I am pretty sure he does not share your devotion and lack of attention to detail.

Independent thinking is discouraged in your church, isn't it?

Anyway, as you say, may the Lord be with you.


Quite the opposite. In war, a group of soldiers is better than one soldier alone.

You need to get together with some friends who think like you do, and hold weekly services. If you don't, you will ultimately become bitter with your ungodly stance in life.

After all, just because you say that you are not a religious person, people are religious beings, and you can't get away from religion in yourself. As I have said in the past, you simply have a religion of non-religion. Maintain your health by "worshiping" with those who believe as you do. No man is an island.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 27, 2019, 08:05:16 PM


Enjoy your life a bit.  Relax, nothing bad is going to happen to you because you think Jesus did not actually exist or because you stop going to church and giving them your hard-earned money.


But most of all, nothing bad will happen to you if you stop trying to save someone who is unwilling to be saved.

You have worked at warning him of the deficiencies of his ways, and he has adamantly turned against your warnings.

Somewhere along the line it is time to stop. It's time to move on to the joy of reaching those who want to understand. It's time to encourage your own faith by letting go of the folly of others.

Salvation is for you. Those others who tend to reject their salvation, need to be left behind so that they don't drag you down into their disaster.

Be at peace. Encourage yourself with Bible readings, that the Lord will reward you for trying. Move on to the many who will listen.

Absolutely maintain an open heart for af_newbie just in case he does turn and return to you.

Go in the peace and love and joy of your Lord. Hebrews 12:1b,2:
1bAnd let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

See you there, CoinCube.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 27, 2019, 06:37:07 PM

Your stated purposes are all good ones but they are a floating list without a foundation or at least without a foundation you have shared. A solid foundation requires a rational criteria for choosing between them when they conflict as well as a structure that will keep these desires healthy and limit excess when opportunities for excess arise.  


My foundation is based on my education, both formal and informal.  Reason and logic are my lighthouses.

It is wrong to teach children that they will see their loved ones in heaven after they die.

That is what these cults of the afterlife are all about, plus the fear of hell sprinkled here and there and you have your foundation and your "lighthouse".

It is highly immoral to scare children about hell.  Both hell and heaven do not exist.  We went where they supposed to be to check.
Nada, no hell and no heaven.

Your Christian foundation is built on a fantasy.  Hardly a solid foundation. LOL.

Ok af_newbie you did not really address my critique but that is ok.

Its not wrong to teach something that is true and the assertion of Christianity is one of truth. You don't believe in that truth so you are unsurprisingly not Christian.

I have shared with you the path that lead me away from beliefs not entirely dissimilar to yours and towards Christianity. Perhaps someday you will find that reasoning helpful. More likely it will be like the passing of a song something noted and quickly forgotten.

Many of us must walk for a time with our eyes closed before we learn to open them. I was such an individual. Perhaps you will be too.

Best Wishes
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 27, 2019, 11:36:26 AM

As for the purpose of life, for me, the purpose of MY life is to be happy, love people close to me, have kids, and help them become independent thinkers who can survive in our very complicated and competitive world.  I love to learn new stuff, I am always 'a fucking newbie', aka af_newbie in any new field, I start to explore.  That is why I am here in this world.  To learn and help others in my life.


Very sad story about the little girl.  Any purpose can be twisted if isolated and misunderstood. I don't know the entirety of the circumstances that lead to the tragedy but I would agree that some religious groups focus on heaven with an intensity that places them at risk of neglecting the here and now. This is an area where many Christians can in my opinion learn something from Judaism.  

All moral precepts can if isolated and misunderstood be twisted into evil. Take the purposes you shared. They are all good things but each in isolation can also be twisted.

To be happy: If twisted to extremes can lead one to selfish pleasure seeking and hedonism prioritizing ones happiness over all else.

To desire kids who thrive amidst competition: Twisted this towards evil takes one to a tribalistic mindset and in extreme cases a desire for eugenic supremacy by whatever means necessary.

To help others: Is noble but it is also a cornerstone of many flawed ideals such as communism and the argument that the need to help others requires we take via force from those who possess abundance to fund the redistribution.

Even the desire to learn and invent new things: This desire most certainly advances human technology and power but it also requires a simultaneous increase in human wisdom to be healthy. Technological innovation alone bereft of wisdom simply simply opens the door to extreme and new forms of evil.
"Slaughterbots" | Presented by ALTER
New Robot Makes Soldiers Obsolete (Bosstown Dynamics)

Your stated purposes are all good ones but they are a floating list without a foundation or at least without a foundation you have shared. A solid foundation requires a rational criteria for choosing between them when they conflict as well as a structure that will keep these desires healthy and limit excess when opportunities for excess arise.  

In regards to your argument that you cannot have moral improvement with Christianity because the Bible is fixed and unchanging here is what C.S. Lewis wrote in response to this critique.

"Q: Doesn’t tying ourselves to an immutable (unchanging) moral code cut off all progress and acquiesce in stagnation?"

"A: Let us strip the question of the illegitimate emotional power it derives from the word 'stagnation' with its suggestion of puddles and mantled pools. If water stands too long it stinks. To infer thence that whatever stands long must be unwholesome is to be the victim of metaphor. Space does not stink because it has preserved its three dimensions from the beginning. The square on the hypotenuse has not gone moldy by continuing to equal the sum of the squares on the other two sides. Love is not dishonored by constancy, and when we wash our hands we are seeking stagnation and "putting the clock back," artificially restoring our hands to the status quo in which they began the day and resisting the natural trend of events which would increase their dirtiness steadily from our birth to our death.

For the emotive term 'stagnant' let us substitute the descriptive term 'permanent.' Does a permanent moral standard preclude progress? On the contrary, except on the supposition of a changeless standard, progress is impossible. If good is a fixed point, it is at least possible that we should get nearer and nearer to it; but if the terminus is as mobile as the train, how can the train progress towards it? Our ideas of the good may change, but they cannot change either for the better or the worse if there is no absolute and immutable good to which they can recede. We can go on getting a sum more and more nearly right only if the one perfectly right is "stagnant".

And yet it will be said, I have just admitted that our ideas of good may improve. How is this to be reconciled with the view that "traditional morality" is a depositum fidei [deposit of revelations] which cannot be deserted? The answer can be understood if we compare a real moral advance with a mere innovation. From the Stoic and Confucian, "Do not do to others what you would not like them to do to you"; to the Christian, "Do as you would be done by" is a real advance. The morality of Nietzsche is a mere innovation. The first is an advance because no one who did not admit the validity of the old maxim could see reason for accepting the new one, and anyone who accepted the old would at once recognize the new as an extension of the same principle. If he rejected it, he would have to reject it as a superfluity, something that went too far, not as something simply heterogeneous from his own ideas of value. But the Nietzschean ethic can be accepted only if we are ready to scrap traditional morals as a mere error and then to put ourselves in a position where we can find no ground for any value judgements at all. It is the difference between a man who says to us: "You like your vegetables moderately fresh; why not grow your own and have them perfectly fresh?" and a man who says, "Throw away that loaf and try eating bricks and centipedes instead." Real moral advances, in fine [=in conclusion], are made from within the existing moral tradition and in the spirit of that tradition and can be understood only in the light of that tradition. The outsider who has rejected the tradition cannot judge them. He has, as Aristotle said, no arche, no premises"

The lighthouse of Christianity shines because it is based on the reality of an objective & universal Moral Code that we know & have broken. It is this truth which makes Christianity's offer of forgiveness, & its gift of supernatural help towards keeping that Moral Code, so incredible.

On Ethics by C.S. Lewis
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 27, 2019, 08:29:17 AM
Being too religious is like one with a blindfold on. Your completely blind to the other aspects of reality and stops you from asking certain conflicting questions about your faith. You see little or no truth in the facts outside your professed faith and tend to judge and segregate a lot.
Religion brings creates barrier by means of taboos in certain health practices which might be helpful and as a result, it becomes a step backwards on new helpful trends in modern day medicine.
Religion is a good emotional too depending on how you choose to view this in your locality. It can either brighten you up and make you all cheerful or depressed.

Except that being open-minded about other aspects of reality, especially when you can't see the dangers of that other reality, might mean you are not being religious enough.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1288
Merit: 504
October 26, 2019, 09:38:26 PM
Being too religious is like one with a blindfold on. Your completely blind to the other aspects of reality and stops you from asking certain conflicting questions about your faith. You see little or no truth in the facts outside your professed faith and tend to judge and segregate a lot.
Religion brings creates barrier by means of taboos in certain health practices which might be helpful and as a result, it becomes a step backwards on new helpful trends in modern day medicine.
Religion is a good emotional too depending on how you choose to view this in your locality. It can either brighten you up and make you all cheerful or depressed.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 26, 2019, 05:53:22 PM

The void is filled with reason and logic.  That is the only way to stay sane, make rational and moral decisions.

BTW, there is nothing to reject.  The 'God' proposition does not even justify serious consideration.  There is no definition of it.
There is absolutely no evidence to consider.

Every single religious myth (yours included) is based on the cultural beliefs of the people who created it.
...

Reason and logic are process not purpose. They are tools used to acquire and retain power. Power over the world power and power over ourselves. The pursuit of power is not an ends it is a means.

You imply we should reject God in favor of accumulating as much individual knowledge and thus power as possible but to what end?

The Christian goal is moral improvement forgiveness of and eventual freedom from sin, and oneness and harmony with God in the world to come. You have chosen to reject that and have replaced it with...

That’s just it you haven’t replaced it with anything you’ve just created a void. It’s that void that drives many to suicide and others to insane ideologies and depression. You can try to fill it with something artificial. You can create some purpose maybe sex, money or perhaps scientific know how. Whatever you choose, however, will forever be an artificial construct something you purposely constructed and something that can be torn down and discarded whenever the mood shifts.

You feel the ‘God' proposition does not justify serious consideration. I respectfully but profoundly disagree.

Your purpose in life is Christianity?  Jesus fucking Christ, you are wasting your life.  I thought you asked what fills the void when one does not have faith in the supernatural and the afterlife, how one explains the unknowns of this world?  The answer is still reason and logic.

As for the purpose of life, for me, the purpose of MY life is to be happy, love people close to me, have kids, and help them become independent thinkers who can survive in our very complicated and competitive world.  I love to learn new stuff, I am always 'a fucking newbie', aka af_newbie in any new field, I start to explore.  That is why I am here in this world.  To learn and help others in my life.

There is no void, I am whole, LOL.

BTW, you cannot have moral improvement with Christianity without changing (or ignoring) the moral rules specified in the Bible.  The same goes for all other religions.  That is why they have to go through revisions or 'transformations', LOL.  Basically, ignore what 'God said'.
The only idiots who think chopping heads, stoning and burning people alive is STILL a good idea are the Muslims.  Christians stopped doing that about two centuries ago.  I think the last burning alive was in Germany in 1835.

I wish people would be honest with themselves, admit they were conned, see what religions really are, a way to control people and extract money from them.

Instead, some people lock themselves into this religious thought prison and cannot admit they have made a mistake; that their God fucked up on more than one occasion.

Banning slavery should have been in the 10 commandments.   Some, weak-ass God you have there.  A 5-year-old child knows that slavery is wrong.  He supposed to be God for fuck's sake.  

But the reality is that God was just some guy in Judea who wrote what he thought was a good idea at that time.  Well, it was never a good idea.  It was wrong back then, and it is wrong now.  

Mr. God knew squat about psychology so to him if there was no blood there was no harm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5ZLuRYp8gk

Everything you have and are comes from God. Even your rebellion against God is allowed and upheld by God because he is giving you what you want. So, you are gifted by God. To make you really good, simply be thankful to Him.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 26, 2019, 04:02:47 PM

The void is filled with reason and logic.  That is the only way to stay sane, make rational and moral decisions.

BTW, there is nothing to reject.  The 'God' proposition does not even justify serious consideration.  There is no definition of it.
There is absolutely no evidence to consider.

Every single religious myth (yours included) is based on the cultural beliefs of the people who created it.
...

Reason and logic are process not purpose. They are tools used to acquire and retain power. Power over the world power and power over ourselves. The pursuit of power is not an ends it is a means.

You imply we should reject God in favor of accumulating as much individual knowledge and thus power as possible but to what end?

The Christian goal is moral improvement forgiveness of and eventual freedom from sin, and oneness and harmony with God in the world to come. You have chosen to reject that and have replaced it with...

That’s just it you haven’t replaced it with anything you’ve just created a void. It’s that void that drives many to suicide and others to insane ideologies and depression. You can try to fill it with something artificial. You can create some purpose maybe sex, money or perhaps scientific know how. Whatever you choose, however, will forever be an artificial construct something you purposely constructed and something that can be torn down and discarded whenever the mood shifts.

You feel the ‘God' proposition does not justify serious consideration. I respectfully but profoundly disagree.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 26, 2019, 12:55:03 PM

That is a difference between us. You think you are a good person. I know I am a flawed sinner in need of grace.


By the divine power vested in me, I now give you an infinite grace.  

From now on, you are a good person, not a sinner.  

The deed is done.  

You are free to go, my child.

That made me laugh I will give you that.

No offense intended but my skepticism over your divine providence exceeds even your disregard of my beliefs.

Though your post was clearly in jest you should consider the degree to which your belief structure leads you to a very similar pronunciation of self-righteousness and self-justification.

When we reject God something else will inevitably fill that void. The most common modern path of the irreligious is to declare themselves their own god perhaps not explicitly as you did in jest above but in a functionally identical way via their choices and actions.



legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 25, 2019, 06:33:47 PM
...
"No humans are good". LOL.  You are cracking me up.

I guess they first have to tell you that you are sick (not well) before they will offer you their solution/treatment/salvation etc. 
Otherwise, you will not swallow their bait.

Religion poisons one's mind.  It is a virus passed on from parents/grandparents to their children/grandchildren.

The only way to cure yourself from it is to go cold turkey and face the people who infected you.

Life is worth living for, death is not.  That is what you are doing.  Engaging in a death cult.
...


That is a difference between us. You think you are a good person. I know I am a flawed sinner in need of grace.

In the end, it does not matter if what you believed was true or not, you'll rot and decompose the same, atoms in your body will be used to form something else.

You and I will rot the same

when you die, well, you'll be gone forever.  And in two or three generations nobody, and I mean nobody, will know that you ever existed or mattered.

I must politely disagree on which of the two of us are engaging in a death cult.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 25, 2019, 04:14:18 PM

It's about salvation. Science won't save you. So far science hasn't been able to extend the lives of people any more than Biblical hygiene does. Science doesn't even talk about salvation.

Step up to Christianity, and let God save you for eternal life in Heaven.

Cool

ROFL.  'Salvation' is part of your delusion, it will die with you. LOL.

The wind swirls round and round. The pine needles are blown away in the swirling wind. Guess I better not cast my swirls before the pine.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 25, 2019, 11:26:53 AM

Are you arguing that because slavery still exists today, it is ok?  If you do, your moral compass is seriously messed up.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-slavery/

The bible clearly sanctioned slavery.  You seem to be confused about both, the Bible and slavery.

There is nothing to argue about.  Just read that book for once.


No he is highlighting the fact that the Bible mitigates and restricts slavery in practice and simultaneously establishes the conditions where slavery can eventually be reduced or eliminated.

It was no coincidence that the abolitionist movement was led by Christians.

There is indeed nothing to argue about.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17342890

All I hear from you is "la-la-la, Christians good, slavery may be no good, Christians made it good, God is good, I can't hear you...."

You are both delusional.  Abolitionists went against the Christian churches in their fight to free slaves.

It is sad that you are so crazy and are willing to re-write the most painful parts of American history.

What is next, Christian Nazis were doing Jews a favor when they sent them to heaven and the Bible confirms it?

PS. The Roman Catholic church was supporting slavery until 1917 when they changed their canon law and made it a crime.  

You claim to support science and agree with it. The thing that science does is it gets down to the tiny points, examines the evidence, watches how things react together, and draws conclusions from what is happening.

Why is it that you want to disregard the science of formal religion? Formal religion isn't something you can lump together and draw conclusions about without deep examination. What you are doing is akin to religion more than it is science. So...

You again show us all that you are a religious being. And that in this case, you would rather set yourself and your ideals up as god over scientific examination.

You need to find the best formal religion you can find, and adhere to it. If you don't, your duplicity will ultimately destroy you. Your choice.

Cool

I am religious about reading non-religious books, LOL.  

Not to worry, your threats (of my ultimate destruction) do not scare me.  I am sane and quite happy to be alive.

You and I will rot the same, however.  When your brain goes offline, you'll not feel or experience a thing, 'your idea, feeling of God' will die with you, of that I am certain.

So enjoy your life, your religion, your delusional worldview because when you die, well, you'll be gone forever.  And in two or three generations nobody, and I mean nobody, will know that you ever existed or mattered. Your Bible will be relocated to the mythology section of your local library, people will be establishing new colonies in this solar system and beyond.  And your precious Jesus or Yahweh will follow the footsteps of Zeus, Ra, Thor, Osiris, Mitra and all of the other mythological figures created by primitive, ancient civilizations.

Progress will be made despite Christian, Muslim or Jewish opposition.  Maybe even in your lifetime, we'll have an openly lesbian, black Pope.

It's about salvation. Science won't save you. So far science hasn't been able to extend the lives of people any more than Biblical hygiene does. Science doesn't even talk about salvation.

Step up to Christianity, and let God save you for eternal life in Heaven.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 25, 2019, 10:52:03 AM

All I hear from you is "la-la-la, Christians good, slavery may be no good, Christians made it good, God is good, I can't hear you...."

You are both delusional.  Abolitionists went against the Christian churches in their fight to free slaves.
...

If all you hear from me is la-la-la Christians good then you are not listening.

Christians are not good. No humans are good. We are all fallen. Humanity is a worming and struggling mass of the ignorant and foolish wallowing like swine in a mud-pit each of us covered from head to toe. Most of us spend our time looking for comfortable pits or fighting with each other for the best mud.

The Christian worldview opens ones eyes to the reality. It is the wiping away of at least a portion of the mud covering our eyes so we can see the reality of the world around us. However, Christianity is far more than just a realization of our fallen state. It is also the assertion that underneath the inches of hardened mud their exists a core of infinite value something worthy of forgiveness and life. It is a calling to clean the mud off of ourselves to the best of our ability and then help others do the same.  

The only solution to the inherent flaw in humanity is to forsake all for a selfless existence. But this is extremely difficult for a human to even approximate. We are bound in our evolutionary fragment of the universe which make it impossible for us to be truly superrational of our own accord. Our biological and human limitations ensure this at least in this world and in this form.

The process is in my opinion what C.S. Lewis was referring to in his man vs rabbit essay when he said we cannot reach the top of the mountain on our own and even if we could we would perish because we currently lack what is necessary at those heights.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X9fR1vSxNEQ

The symmetry of our common human situation is what is notable. Some of us may be slightly higher up the mountain then others and further along in our climb. But we are all still among among the bottom slopes of the mountain and incapable of completing the journey on our own. Our weakness and ignorance guarantee our eventual death no matter how high we climb. Thus our desperate need for a savior.  

Christians follow Jesus but our role can only be that of a sheep following a shepherd. Wayward, foolish and prone to stray regardless of our intent.

Why does God call us sheep?
https://inhonoroftheking.blogspot.com/2011/04/why-does-god-call-us-sheep.html?m=1
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 25, 2019, 09:02:57 AM

Are you arguing that because slavery still exists today, it is ok?  If you do, your moral compass is seriously messed up.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-slavery/

The bible clearly sanctioned slavery.  You seem to be confused about both, the Bible and slavery.

There is nothing to argue about.  Just read that book for once.


No he is highlighting the fact that the Bible mitigates and restricts slavery in practice and simultaneously establishes the conditions where slavery can eventually be reduced or eliminated.

It was no coincidence that the abolitionist movement was led by Christians.

There is indeed nothing to argue about.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17342890

All I hear from you is "la-la-la, Christians good, slavery may be no good, Christians made it good, God is good, I can't hear you...."

You are both delusional.  Abolitionists went against the Christian churches in their fight to free slaves.

It is sad that you are so crazy and are willing to re-write the most painful parts of American history.

What is next, Christian Nazis were doing Jews a favor when they sent them to heaven and the Bible confirms it?

PS. The Roman Catholic church was supporting slavery until 1917 when they changed their canon law and made it a crime.  

You claim to support science and agree with it. The thing that science does is it gets down to the tiny points, examines the evidence, watches how things react together, and draws conclusions from what is happening.

Why is it that you want to disregard the science of formal religion? Formal religion isn't something you can lump together and draw conclusions about without deep examination. What you are doing is akin to religion more than it is science. So...

You again show us all that you are a religious being. And that in this case, you would rather set yourself and your ideals up as god over scientific examination.

You need to find the best formal religion you can find, and adhere to it. If you don't, your duplicity will ultimately destroy you. Your choice.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 24, 2019, 10:58:50 PM

Are you arguing that because slavery still exists today, it is ok?  If you do, your moral compass is seriously messed up.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-slavery/

The bible clearly sanctioned slavery.  You seem to be confused about both, the Bible and slavery.

There is nothing to argue about.  Just read that book for once.


No he is highlighting the fact that the Bible mitigates and restricts slavery in practice and simultaneously establishes the conditions where slavery can eventually be reduced or eliminated.

It was no coincidence that the abolitionist movement was led by Christians.

There is indeed nothing to argue about.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17342890
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 24, 2019, 09:30:02 PM

Do you think that a minimum wage worker who works for Microsoft is not a slave?

People who have slaves, don't have them just for the fun of owning people. They own their slaves so that the slaves produce some kind of product/service for them. They feed their slaves because they know slaves die without food. They give their slaves water, because they know slaves die without water to drink. They take care of their slaves in whatever ways make the slaves produce more.

Your slave master where you work pays you the way he does because he hopes that his pay will make you slave for him better.

If a person doesn't have any method for getting food, and he sells himself to a master so he won't die, that's voluntary slavery by the slave. Would you rather have a dead person than a slave working to build his value up so he can free himself?

But the USA won't let starving people do this... sell themselves to a master. Instead, they make the slaves their slaves... work for an income and pay taxes.

Wake up. It's all slavery. The only difference is the quality of life for some slaves over other slaves.

Cool

EDIT: Btw. St. Paul writing to the Corinthians, 1 Corinthians 7:21:
Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so.

It is not the slavery we are talking about here.  Microsoft cannot beat you with a physical rod.
Microsoft cannot sell you on the open slave market in Libya.  They don't OWN you.  You can quit your job and start your own Microsoft.

Exodus 21:20-21
"Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."

Over 400,000 people living in 'modern slavery' in US, report finds - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/19/us-modern-slavery-report-global-slavery-index.

What is Modern Slavery? - https://www.state.gov/what-is-modern-slavery/.

Again, what do you want? Death or slavery? If you are out of options, wouldn't it be nice if you could find a master who would feed you in return for some labor?

We have welfare systems set up. Other places in the world don't. If it is volunteer slavery so that you can survive, and if it is legal or acceptable, why die?

The Bible talks in the O.T. against stealing people (for slavery). The slavery that was the custom of ancient peoples was being reduced in O.T. times by the Bible. You don't simply take a system that people have been using for ages, and suddenly change it. It took time for things to get where they are today. However, all over Africa and the Middle East and China, slavery is presently being allowed by governments even though they formally have laws against it.

Read what Saint Paul said as I added it above. The Bible is against slavery. But the people had to be trained out of their long-time habits. And systems had to be set in place for taking care of those in need so that they didn't have to sell themselves into slavery.

Until we can set up systems to take care of impoverished people all over the world, slavery is good. It benefits the slaves.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 24, 2019, 07:21:19 PM
LOL.

And who were the bigots that use the Bible to justify slavery?  Fucking Christians, that is who.
Progressive Christians went AGAINST their religion because they were good people.


Was the emancipation of slaves a progressive change?

Did the emancipation cause moral degradation and decay, as YOU claimed?

The Christians who brought about the emancipation of slaves are the same type of Christians who today stand for the LGBT community and the dicks who opposed the emancipation then, oppose the progressive changes (sex and gender equality, women's reproductive rights) today.

Go back to your sandbox and think about it some more.

The Christians were the ones driving the abolitionist movement. Your attempt to argue that they were somehow acting against their faith are foolish hand waving. I am certain that those individuals were they alive today would be deeply insulted by your smear.

It is true that there have always been and always will be men who do evil in the name of God but the message of the Bible is one of freedom.

If you want proof of that just look at what those "religious slaveholders" felt they had to do to the Bible to make it safe for their slaves to learn about it. They chopped it up and left removed huge parts of it. They did so because they were concerned about the message of freedom it carries.

The Shocking 'Slave Bible'
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2018/february/freedom-in-christ-how-this-bible-was-used-to-manipulate
Quote
In Washington DC’s Museum of the Bible, a copy of the so-called “Slave Bible” sits on display.
...
This Bible, used by slave masters in the early 1800s, is quite different than the one used in pews today.

“It starts off with the creation story…then it jumps to Joseph getting sold into slavery by his brothers and how that ends up being a good thing for him,” Schmidt told CBN News.

“We skip over the Israelites in slavery in Egypt being let out,” said Schmidt.

Other references to freedom were also omitted.
...
Most slaves were illiterate or prohibited from reading, so what would be the point of such a Bible?

“The abolitionist movement was beginning to make waves on both sides of the Atlantic “said Schmidt.

One way slave owners could combat pressure from abolitionists was to tell them they were good Christians that taught their slaves about God.

You are not only ignorant of the Bible but the history of the slave trade.

The Bible explicitly sanctions slavery to this fucking day.  
That is what Christian slave owners and traders used as the justification for their immoral actions.

Progressives are the good people here, always were and always will be.  Christian abolitionists stuck their necks, had to break their ties with traditional churches that were in favor of slavery.  They stood up AGAINST their religion for the right reasons.  Just like some Christians today are doing when they campaign for women or gay rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Abolitionism

The Roman Catholic canon law was changed, wait for it, in 1917 to make selling human beings into slavery a crime.

You can continue to be a prick, and be against gay rights, gender equality, women's reproductive rights, etc.

You can thump your Bible all you want, nobody cares anymore about people like you.  You are like the pricks the abolitionists were up against.

Progressives will win for one reason, they are morally right.

Be a better person and join them. Or die a prick.

Do you think that a minimum wage worker who works for Microsoft is not a slave?

People who have slaves, don't have them just for the fun of owning people. They own their slaves so that the slaves produce some kind of product/service for them. They feed their slaves because they know slaves die without food. They give their slaves water, because they know slaves die without water to drink. They take care of their slaves in whatever ways make the slaves produce more.

Your slave master where you work pays you the way he does because he hopes that his pay will make you slave for him better.

If a person doesn't have any method for getting food, and he sells himself to a master so he won't die, that's voluntary slavery by the slave. Would you rather have a dead person than a slave working to build his value up so he can free himself?

But the USA won't let starving people do this... sell themselves to a master. Instead, they make the slaves their slaves... work for an income and pay taxes.

Wake up. It's all slavery. The only difference is the quality of life for some slaves over other slaves.

Cool

EDIT: Btw. St. Paul writing to the Corinthians, 1 Corinthians 7:21:
Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
October 24, 2019, 07:12:42 PM

None of that stuff you say is wrong regarding your government, if it is part of your government.

How does a government get to be your government? By your acceptance of it... a contract or agreement between you and your government.

For example, consider Stockholm Syndrome. You are a hostage in a hostage situation. Your captor says, "Submit or die." What are you going to do? You have the choice of maintaining your prior government and dying, or of making a deal with your captor that he is your new government through the force he is exerting.

The example of this is King Zedekiah of Judah, when he made a deal with Nebuchadnezzar. Zedekiah accepted Babylon as his government. Then he broke the agreement that he had made with Nebuchadnezzar, and God was against him for this.

God talks about the preservation of your government - even Democracy - right in Romans 13. Obey your government. But before you can obey your government, you have to choose your government. If you choose Democracy, then obey, just like Romans 13 says.

So, think clearly about which government you want to obey. If you don't obey the right government, you will wind up being a slave. But God's government is a government of freedom... Galatians 5:1:
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Cool

Romans 13 has nothing to do with democracy, more like a monarchy with God the ultimate monarch.

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment..."


Keep looking.  You won't find it.

You quoted it: Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. If the government is set up as a democracy, then it is: Let every person be subject to the democracy.

The point is, whatever government you choose, be subject to the governing authorities of that government. After all, how does a government become your government if not by your choosing of it? And how do you choose it: by accident by being born there; by formal acceptance; by force in a hostile takeover; etc.

God is the head of all government. But for you, government is what you choose. Since you don't accept God as your government, and since God is for freedom, He will give you over to the government you choose. What is that government? You don't really know, do you?

Cool

You ignored the rest of the quote. 

By your logic, the Bible supports Islamic governments, Nazism, Communism, etc. 
Basically, any government because "those that exist have been instituted by God.".

Nothing to do with democracy.

What is there to ignore? God supports people. People select their government no matter what government it is. All you are trying to do is tell people to not support the government they promised to support. Do you think that governments that are democracies aren't supported by God, somehow?

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
October 24, 2019, 02:51:05 PM
LOL.

And who were the bigots that use the Bible to justify slavery?  Fucking Christians, that is who.
Progressive Christians went AGAINST their religion because they were good people.


Was the emancipation of slaves a progressive change?

Did the emancipation cause moral degradation and decay, as YOU claimed?

The Christians who brought about the emancipation of slaves are the same type of Christians who today stand for the LGBT community and the dicks who opposed the emancipation then, oppose the progressive changes (sex and gender equality, women's reproductive rights) today.

Go back to your sandbox and think about it some more.

The Christians were the ones driving the abolitionist movement. Your attempt to argue that they were somehow acting against their faith are foolish hand waving. I am certain that those individuals were they alive today would be deeply insulted by your smear.

It is true that there have always been and always will be men who do evil in the name of God but the message of the Bible is one of freedom.

If you want proof of that just look at what those "religious slaveholders" felt they had to do to the Bible to make it safe for their slaves to learn about it. They chopped it up and removed huge portions of it. They did so because they were concerned about the message of freedom it carries.

The Shocking 'Slave Bible'
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2018/february/freedom-in-christ-how-this-bible-was-used-to-manipulate
Quote
In Washington DC’s Museum of the Bible, a copy of the so-called “Slave Bible” sits on display.
...
This Bible, used by slave masters in the early 1800s, is quite different than the one used in pews today.

“It starts off with the creation story…then it jumps to Joseph getting sold into slavery by his brothers and how that ends up being a good thing for him,” Schmidt told CBN News.
“We skip over the Israelites in slavery in Egypt being let out,” said Schmidt.
Other references to freedom were also omitted.
...
Most slaves were illiterate or prohibited from reading, so what would be the point of such a Bible?
“The abolitionist movement was beginning to make waves on both sides of the Atlantic “said Schmidt.

One way slave owners could combat pressure from abolitionists was to tell them they were good Christians that taught their slaves about God.
 

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