Topic: High Efficiency FPGA & ASIC Bitcoin Mining Devices https://BTCFPGA.com - page 32. (Read 218469 times)

Normally I wouldn't be posting in your thread, but since you called BFL out directly I figured it was an invite.  I'm a little confused here, Tom, so maybe you can enlighten me.  You say you are far enough along in your process to have prototype boards (or was it production boards?) arriving in your hands this week or next week... yet you can't give any power numbers?  If your crack team of engineers that are designing this are so great, they should have some power estimates, within a reasonable margin (say +/- 10%? 20%?) that you could give out, right?  Why aren't you publishing these numbers with the caveat that they are estimates?  Do you actually have numbers or are you not as far along in the process as you'd like people to believe?  

You say you guarantee your device will be competitive with any other ASIC on the market.  What is competitive?  Can you define that for everyone?  Is it 2x the power consumption?  Is that still "competitive" or what does the value of "competitive" mean to you?

Here's what I think your customers deserve:

1. A power estimate, even with the understanding that may be off a bit.
2. A guarantee that if your power estimates are in fact not competitive with other products, you will offer unlimited refunds (Just like BFL did when the FPGA power consumption turned out to be wrong).

A power estimate should not be a problem if you have the excellent engineers you say you have.  They should already have pretty accurate power estimates and you should be aware of them.  Why not be open about it?   Maybe guaranteeing refunds to people if your power turns out to be non competitive would go a long way towards easing peoples concerns that you're hiding something in order to collect orders from the naive.  After all, once difficulty matures, the difference could determine whether reasonable payback is even possible or not.

For my part, I'm sure you have a competitive power envelope but the fact that you aren't stepping up to share estimates with the rest of the community while everyone else has may give people reason to doubt.  

Once again, sorry to step into your thread, but since you called us out directly, I felt it appropriate to respond.

Enough from me for one day.

Just one last thought. I think inaba is destroying his own company's reputation. The little attention seeking whore.

Countering speculation with speculation?  How do you figure that?  Can you show me where our power usage is speculation?

Josh/BFL I will not engage you on such a childish level.


Instead I will attempt to reach out to Buttefly Labs management and see if I can find an answer to this, maybe we can work out a truce. Maybe they have no idea this kind of behavior is even going on.

In any case, I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt.

If this helps Josh:

I apologize if what I said was wrong, incorrect or abusive to BFL in any way.

I have no idea of the energy efficiency of their products, I was voicing a personal opinion and I could be totally incorrect.

Although I do not know energy efficiency of our end user production boards yet - we do have estimates like everyone else and in my opinion our products will be competitive with other ASIC mining units that are currently for sale, this opinion like all of this other speculation could be incorrect.

I have nothing bad to say about Butterfly Labs what so ever and I encourage anyone who is in the market for an ASIC based Bitcoin mining device to consider Butterfly Labs along with myself, AVALON, and the other companies that are producing similar products. as always do your research and form your own opinion before making an investment such as this.

-Tom
BTCFPGA/BitcoinASIC.com

Countering speculation with speculation?  How do you figure that?  Can you show me where our power usage is speculation?

As for point number two, if you'll stop and read before flying off and hitting that reply button, you'll understand that I already said that if he's defining competitive as some ridiculous multiple of other offerings, then it's not a lie.  But the fact that he's refusing to even define what "competitive" means is telling in and of itself.

PS - My job isn't customer service, it's operations.

1. He is countering speculation with speculation. When BFL has actual prototype numbers the 1 gh/s per watt is still just speculation not fact.
2. He said it is competitive, how does refusing to designed what competitive mean equal a lie?

Stop trolling. Go do your customer service job instead of trying to ruin what little reputation BFL has left.

Sure, no problem, here you go:


Two lies, same post.  You lied about BFL power and you guarantee your ASIC will be competitive to any other ASIC on the market.  Now, if you are defining competitive as some ridiculous multiple of other units, well, then I guess you're being honest about it.  But since you refuse to define "competitive" it makes it kind of obvious that you are lying about that as well.

That's an easy question to answer, Tom.  Because you are lying to your customers.  More specifically, you lied about BFL's power and I called you out.  You are also lying about being "competitive*"  If you had not lied, I wouldn't be here... but there you have it.

Please, prove me wrong, Tom.  Tell us what your "competitive" power is likely to be. While you're at it, please show figures as to how you know BFL's power is impossible.

* For any reasonable value of "competitive"

Please show evidence when you accuse someone of lying.

But guess what? EITHER DO MY COMPETITORS!

Sure I can post a "simulated" or "estimated" power usage number - but its not going to be accurate. You really think BFL is going to give 1Gh/s per watt? keep dreaming.
...
I give you my personal guarantee that our products will have energy efficiency that is competitive to any other ASIC product on the market.

Attitude like this that makes BFL stink. Rotten to the core...

Haha good job sweeping that pesky "power" issue under the rug, Tom!  Maybe you can ...

Haha good job sweeping that pesky "power" issue under the rug, Tom!  Maybe you can keep your dirty little power problem a secret long enough to gain a few more pre-orders before the secret comes out.    WTG for transparency.

I also notice you squeaked your way out of the bet, too.  Quality work there!  Won't even back up the bet YOU tried to initiate for charity.

Good Morning Gentleman,


Thank you for everyone's support and I hope we can put any regrettable arguments over the last days behind us and move forward.

We will be launching our new website this weekend and with it some hardware specifics I know everyone eager to find out (and yes I will still release the specs this weekend even if the website launch gets delayed for some reason).

Hopefully we can move forward in the spirit of open and friendly competition and this thread can return to what it was supposed to be used for.

I will in and out of the office working on several things this weekend and will be reachable by phone or email if anyone needs me (remember I do not return calls if you do not leave a message).

Have a nice day,

Tom
(315) 514 - 0269