Good Morning Gentleman,
Thank you for everyone's support and I hope we can put any regrettable arguments over the last days behind us and move forward.
We will be launching our new website this weekend and with it some hardware specifics I know everyone eager to find out (and yes I will still release the specs this weekend even if the website launch gets delayed for some reason).
Hopefully we can move forward in the spirit of open and friendly competition and this thread can return to what it was supposed to be used for.
I will in and out of the office working on several things this weekend and will be reachable by phone or email if anyone needs me (remember I do not return calls if you do not leave a message).
Have a nice day,
Tom
(315) 514 - 0269
Topic: High Efficiency FPGA & ASIC Bitcoin Mining Devices https://BTCFPGA.com - page 33. (Read 218494 times)
October 20, 2012, 09:27:45 AM
October 20, 2012, 09:16:47 AM
I have also decided to promote bASIC unit on my website. It will be more to encourage my fellow bitcoin miners here in South Africa to buy from Tom and not from that cocky bloke Josh.
Just his attitude alone had put me completely off from BFL.
Just his attitude alone had put me completely off from BFL.
+1, Tom is a stand up guy. BFL's 'investment' in Josh seems to be back firing on them.
October 20, 2012, 09:15:37 AM
I have also decided to promote bASIC unit on my website. It will be more to encourage my fellow bitcoin miners here in South Africa to buy from Tom and not from that cocky bloke Josh.
Just his attitude alone had put me completely off from BFL.
Just his attitude alone had put me completely off from BFL.
October 20, 2012, 05:52:07 AM
having a 7 digit ICQ number
My ICQ number was 4 digits (5xxx I can't remember exactly).
oh, and why would you ever use Juno? netcom and many other ISPs were available way before Juno was... not to mention the ability to just freeload off of any university/govt installation in your area. in richardson, I could choose from UNT, UTA, and the super conducting supercollidor. on SSC you could even access their VAX machine, sscvx1.ssc.gov
October 20, 2012, 05:26:35 AM
Just to make one thing clear.
I were still deciding which of the two ASIC units I should get myself. BFL or Tom's hardware. Then I stumbled upon this post. I read through most of it and saw Josh is also in here.
To be honest after sending a few queries through to BFL and no response I also made contact with Tom. He was very helpful so far and this made my decision easier. I will be getting the bASIC unit from Tom.
I were actually amazed to see that Josh cannot handle healthy competition and just had to, and still does, come here and dis Tom on his own personal post. Tom is an example of good customer service and Josh an example of none.
Thank you Josh for making my choice so much easier. Your simple minded "I have to be the best" attitude gives Tom the upper hand.
Well done Tom! Keep up the good work!
I were still deciding which of the two ASIC units I should get myself. BFL or Tom's hardware. Then I stumbled upon this post. I read through most of it and saw Josh is also in here.
To be honest after sending a few queries through to BFL and no response I also made contact with Tom. He was very helpful so far and this made my decision easier. I will be getting the bASIC unit from Tom.
I were actually amazed to see that Josh cannot handle healthy competition and just had to, and still does, come here and dis Tom on his own personal post. Tom is an example of good customer service and Josh an example of none.
Thank you Josh for making my choice so much easier. Your simple minded "I have to be the best" attitude gives Tom the upper hand.
Well done Tom! Keep up the good work!
October 20, 2012, 04:27:54 AM
Tom's website isn't far away, i wouldn't be surprised if pictures would come with it.
Sounds like more info is coming anyway.
Sounds like more info is coming anyway.
October 20, 2012, 03:50:12 AM
Makes me think. If Tom really wanted to throw a wrench into the debate, he'd drop his unit price by say 25% - 50%.
||bit
Why would he do that? He's already got them beat on MHs/$. ||bit
Tom only just does better on MHs/$ (maybe 10% better). And it is effectively tied if you compare his offered cost efficiency to BFL's sc-minirig. If one had the money, they'd do better to get the BFL rig for it's space advantage. And this is not considering the power consumption question.
So, why would Tom do it? Simply to create disruptions within the competition. If he did that, even for a little while, BFL new orders would essentially freeze, and he'd have all the new orders. However, there are obvious problems with that (e.g. paying off the development costs will be harder), and whatever else I'm missing. BFL could [or would have to] respond in kind once the pain threshold is met, unless it hit Tom first.
||bit
October 20, 2012, 01:00:05 AM
As much as I want to see pics of the bASIC, he shouldnt do it just cuz BFL did. This is not a "I'll show you mine if you show me yours". He should release information when he's ready, and it should be accurate, and he should be trying to outpace BFL.
That said, Tom hasn't responded to me yet. It was coming up on 2 weeks ago that he said he would have a significant news update for us. I realize he's been traveling a lot, but still... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1283526
I agree, this is not a competition , still i just would love to see what Tom has come out with in terms of a prototype. I have a crush for prototypes.
The announced website update along with detailed update informations would be lovely too.
October 20, 2012, 12:57:07 AM
As much as I want to see pics of the bASIC, he shouldnt do it just cuz BFL did. This is not a "I'll show you mine if you show me yours". He should release information when he's ready, and it should be accurate, and he should be trying to outpace BFL.
That said, Tom hasn't responded to me yet. It was coming up on 2 weeks ago that he said he would have a significant news update for us. I realize he's been traveling a lot, but still... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1283526
I agree, this is not a competition , still i just would love to see what Tom has come out with in terms of a prototype. I have a crush for prototypes.
The announced website update along with detailed update informations would be lovely too.
October 20, 2012, 12:54:51 AM
The 'derailment' is between Josh and Tom - and this is Tom's thread 
Hm... sounds like an ice cream flavor. "Josh and Tom's: Derailment (with nuts)"
October 20, 2012, 12:36:55 AM
54 GH/s @ $12/btc (after halving) = $106/day
54 GH at difficulty 19970091.25813 is 1.36 BTC/day after the halving. $16.32/day at $12.I suspect your calculator is in need of repair.
Your power figure is 22% of the income— and thats a "soon" rate, e.g. the rate after the hardware which is already ordered and paid for is turned on. And what happens when the difficulty has cranked to 100x on second gen mining asics?
Ah, yes, I had the difficulty unadjusted.
$16.32/day income, $3.6/day electricity. 22% is a far extreme estimate.
bASIC isn't going to run 500 watts. Extremeley few miners run at $.30/kwh. The normal case will be far better, more like 5% spent on electricity. Insignificant.
What's going to matter is time to start and cost to start. Not power costs.
October 20, 2012, 12:21:23 AM
54 GH/s @ $12/btc (after halving) = $106/day
54 GH at difficulty 19970091.25813 is 1.36 BTC/day after the halving. $16.32/day at $12.I suspect your calculator is in need of repair.
Your power figure is 22% of the income— and thats a "soon" rate, e.g. the rate after the hardware which is already ordered and paid for is turned on. And what happens when the difficulty has cranked to 100x on second gen mining asics?
October 19, 2012, 11:58:31 PM
The 'derailment' is between Josh and Tom - and this is Tom's thread
Hm... sounds like an ice cream flavor. "Josh and Tom's: Derailment (with nuts)"
October 19, 2012, 11:52:10 PM
Sorry for offtopic, but here is...
A bit of bitcoin pr0n from BFL blah blah
I hope Tom will come soon with good news (and pics!) too.
Actually - to be blunt - why are you posting BFL links in here?A bit of bitcoin pr0n from BFL blah blah
I hope Tom will come soon with good news (and pics!) too.
Post them in the BFL thread.
That post is actually worthy of a warning IMO.
Lucky I'm not a mod (who edits my posts ...)
Btw kano why not you rebel on the other topic derailments so far?
There is no reason to post it here.
The 'derailment' is between Josh and Tom - and this is Tom's thread
October 19, 2012, 11:49:20 PM
The current network is rougly 350 60GH rigs. For the energy costs to skyrocket, we'd have to see 35,000 new 60GH rigs come online! That ain't gonna happen in the immediate future. Energy costs are a distant 3rd priority, behind date of mining start and initial costs. By the time it does matter, next generation ASICs will take over.
Wha? The halfing will double energy costs, and there is 48TH in the BFL waitlist thread made public (actual orders are probably much greater)— I understand there will be 1000 bASIC units made, so thats another 54TH, and then another 20 from avalon. So thats 122TH. Plus whatever deepbit and the other efforts do.Just from the numbers there and the halving you have a 12x increase in power usage per unit reward— 10x if all the existing hashpower turns off as a result of the increases, and I think its not unrealistic to call that a conservative lower bound.
From 22TH to 144TH is a 6.5x increase. Feel free to run the electricity numbers for a 6.5x increase. They're still insignificant for ASICs.
Ah hell, I'll run it myself.
54 GH/s @ $12/btc (after halving) = $106/day
Forgive me Tom for a crazy estimate. Let's assume an outrageous 500 watts for a bASIC at insane California rates.
500 watts @ $.30/kwh = $3.6/day
Significant? I don't think so.
October 19, 2012, 11:48:18 PM
Now that BFL has released pictures of their Single SC ASIC, Tom should keep pace and show us something, it's been a while since last announcement.
Anyways, keep up the good stuff guys! You Rock!
As much as I want to see pics of the bASIC, he shouldnt do it just cuz BFL did. This is not a "I'll show you mine if you show me yours". He should release information when he's ready, and it should be accurate, and he should be trying to outpace BFL.Anyways, keep up the good stuff guys! You Rock!
That said, Tom hasn't responded to me yet. It was coming up on 2 weeks ago that he said he would have a significant news update for us. I realize he's been traveling a lot, but still... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1283526
October 19, 2012, 11:24:35 PM
Now that BFL has released pictures of their Single SC ASIC, Tom should keep pace and show us something, it's been a while since last announcement.
Anyways, keep up the good stuff guys! You Rock!
Anyways, keep up the good stuff guys! You Rock!
October 19, 2012, 10:33:39 PM
The current network is rougly 350 60GH rigs. For the energy costs to skyrocket, we'd have to see 35,000 new 60GH rigs come online! That ain't gonna happen in the immediate future. Energy costs are a distant 3rd priority, behind date of mining start and initial costs. By the time it does matter, next generation ASICs will take over.
Wha? The halfing will double energy costs, and there is 48TH in the BFL waitlist thread made public (actual orders are probably much greater)— I understand there will be 1000 bASIC units made, so thats another 54TH, and then another 20 from avalon. So thats 122TH. Plus whatever deepbit and the other efforts do.Just from the numbers there and the halving you have a 12x increase in power usage per unit reward— 10x if all the existing hashpower turns off as a result of the increases, and I think its not unrealistic to call that a conservative lower bound. And this should all happen in the next couple months? Thats not skyrocketing enough for you? It will rescale the difficulty charts so significantly that the introduction of gpus will be nearly invisible on them.
October 19, 2012, 09:50:44 PM
I can't believe BFL's numbers at all if they're not on a substantially more efficient process than 130nm.
Would they be believable on a 65nm process?
October 19, 2012, 09:41:00 PM
Wow, what a mess.
Tom,
I suggest starting a new thread for your product. Maybe you can just condense the info here into an initial starting post and go from there.
Unfortunately this derailment overshadows your great product and customer service.
bASIC will ship as soon as possible, some of us will be working directly to make that happen.
As many here have stated, power is bullshet when it comes to ASIC. Josh is accurate in stating power efficiency in absolute terms allows a device to remain "competitive" longer. Now as Josh stated earlier though, what is "competitive" ? Making $10 more per month in 3 years ?
Any sound economic analysis shows that capital cost is the most important factor in these devices. You can't just isolate marginal profitability years down the road as a determining factor. No reasonable business person would base a decision on that principle.
Tom, just focus on your product and customers.
+1 to this as well, too hard finding real info when all the other stuff is going onTom,
I suggest starting a new thread for your product. Maybe you can just condense the info here into an initial starting post and go from there.
Unfortunately this derailment overshadows your great product and customer service.
bASIC will ship as soon as possible, some of us will be working directly to make that happen.
As many here have stated, power is bullshet when it comes to ASIC. Josh is accurate in stating power efficiency in absolute terms allows a device to remain "competitive" longer. Now as Josh stated earlier though, what is "competitive" ? Making $10 more per month in 3 years ?
Any sound economic analysis shows that capital cost is the most important factor in these devices. You can't just isolate marginal profitability years down the road as a determining factor. No reasonable business person would base a decision on that principle.
Tom, just focus on your product and customers.
maybe even post important info in a new threads then lock it until more info is available and do an update - might solve some of the "same question asked every page coz I cbf looking back one page to see if it has already been answered" ppl too
seems there are concerted efforts to bury useful info in this thread
Good luck getting info out to those of us interested
pointless asking the tards to take the crap elsewhere - it just makes them worse - evidence of this all over the forum
good luck
Graet
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