High prices mean even higher volatility - page 3.

michellee

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Quote from: shoreno on June 26, 2020, 04:38:07 AM

Quote from: michellee on June 26, 2020, 03:33:08 AM

Most people know about the volatility, but the biggest problem in this matter is they have greediness, which prevents them from stopping trading or they don't sell their bitcoin once the price increase so high. They always want to make more and more profit, and it seems they forgot that the high price would not stay in there, and there will be a time for the price to go down and make a correction. The volatility helps us make the profit, but that doesn't mean we don't need to close the trading at the highest price because we need to save the money that we use to trade and take those profits as much as we can. We can wait for more for the low price to buy back bitcoin again at a low price.

thats us we love money thats why we keep on pushing our luck into the highest level . its fine as long as you are willing to loose your capital but its not good if you will regret and cry on the end . i saw many people complain that they made a high money from x capital . i cant imagine my self not stopping or withdrawing once i already earned some profits . i know the risk is high when prices is increasing because volatility is also high knowing that people are also selling fast

We need to get out after we make a profit because we can not expect to make more profit if we stay for more. We know the risk is high, and that is why we need to know when we need to stay or when we need to take profit. People complain about why they can not make more profit, and they still waiting for more, but the fact is they can not even make a profit. I always try to withdrawing the profit, no matter if that is a small profit because I know that everything will start from small, and soon, that will become bigger.

Kez1817

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Volatility is what we liked in cryptocurrency because it help us make profit.The higher the price the better to sell but we need to closed the trade or else we lose instead of profit. Being greedy won't help us to gain specially when the price is higher because there is also a high possibilities that the price will go down drastically.

shoreno

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Quote from: michellee on June 26, 2020, 03:33:08 AM

Quote from: Latviand on June 26, 2020, 02:51:56 AM

Quote from: AniviaBtc on June 24, 2020, 06:59:53 AM

When you know that price of bitcoin will increase higher then you should be careful because there is probably a huge drop in its price after that.

That's right, you always need to be aware about the sudden drop it bitcoin price once the market experience collapses. It is not that hard to make your self stop from doing transactions once the volatility of bitcoin occur, as the bitcoin price increases, that's not the best thing that you should focus on. You also need to know how long it will lasts so as soon as possible, you can prevent losses once you see its price changes. Cryptocurrencies really have that kind of ability to expand its volatility depending on the market volume and demand. Huge drops will always come so you need to also prepare and be ready for that so that you will not have a hard time to recover all your losses due to its volatility.

Most people know about the volatility, but the biggest problem in this matter is they have greediness, which prevents them from stopping trading or they don't sell their bitcoin once the price increase so high. They always want to make more and more profit, and it seems they forgot that the high price would not stay in there, and there will be a time for the price to go down and make a correction. The volatility helps us make the profit, but that doesn't mean we don't need to close the trading at the highest price because we need to save the money that we use to trade and take those profits as much as we can. We can wait for more for the low price to buy back bitcoin again at a low price.

thats us we love money thats why we keep on pushing our luck into the highest level . its fine as long as you are willing to loose your capital but its not good if you will regret and cry on the end . i saw many people complain that they made a high money from x capital . i cant imagine my self not stopping or withdrawing once i already earned some profits . i know the risk is high when prices is increasing because volatility is also high knowing that people are also selling fast

michellee

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Quote from: Latviand on June 26, 2020, 02:51:56 AM

Quote from: AniviaBtc on June 24, 2020, 06:59:53 AM

When you know that price of bitcoin will increase higher then you should be careful because there is probably a huge drop in its price after that.

That's right, you always need to be aware about the sudden drop it bitcoin price once the market experience collapses. It is not that hard to make your self stop from doing transactions once the volatility of bitcoin occur, as the bitcoin price increases, that's not the best thing that you should focus on. You also need to know how long it will lasts so as soon as possible, you can prevent losses once you see its price changes. Cryptocurrencies really have that kind of ability to expand its volatility depending on the market volume and demand. Huge drops will always come so you need to also prepare and be ready for that so that you will not have a hard time to recover all your losses due to its volatility.

Most people know about the volatility, but the biggest problem in this matter is they have greediness, which prevents them from stopping trading or they don't sell their bitcoin once the price increase so high. They always want to make more and more profit, and it seems they forgot that the high price would not stay in there, and there will be a time for the price to go down and make a correction. The volatility helps us make the profit, but that doesn't mean we don't need to close the trading at the highest price because we need to save the money that we use to trade and take those profits as much as we can. We can wait for more for the low price to buy back bitcoin again at a low price.

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Quote from: AniviaBtc on June 24, 2020, 06:59:53 AM

When you know that price of bitcoin will increase higher then you should be careful because there is probably a huge drop in its price after that.

That's right, you always need to be aware about the sudden drop it bitcoin price once the market experience collapses. It is not that hard to make your self stop from doing transactions once the volatility of bitcoin occur, as the bitcoin price increases, that's not the best thing that you should focus on. You also need to know how long it will lasts so as soon as possible, you can prevent losses once you see its price changes. Cryptocurrencies really have that kind of ability to expand its volatility depending on the market volume and demand. Huge drops will always come so you need to also prepare and be ready for that so that you will not have a hard time to recover all your losses due to its volatility.

Mauser

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Quote from: Alert31 on June 25, 2020, 05:14:47 PM

Based on my experienced while doing trade move higher volatility when the price go up because the demand increasing at the same time but be careful when the price go up because it will go down drastically,that's why always watch your buy and sell order to make sure that you will make profit and avoid loses. Those higher volatility is also a chance to earn if you know how to play with it.

It's best to work with limit orders so you don't sell by mistake a quick downturn.

But who knows what the real price for 1 Bitcoin is? Since there is a fixed supply we can only speculate about the price. Also with inflation and expansionary monetary policies the price for bitcoin is only up. With a higher price bitcoin doesn't not need to be more volatile - if the price would be rising constantly for a year, the volatility would be very small - just avoid panic sells.

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Quote from: FanEagle on June 25, 2020, 12:29:11 PM

High prices would mean more stability for one simple reason. It would take a lot more money to move it to begin with. When the price is let's say 100 thousand dollars per bitcoin, if it is already there that means there was a ton of people that sold beforehand and not many early birds are left that bought from very cheap, you also can't buy in bulk neither because buying in bulk would mean tens of millions of dollars at least and probably hundreds of millions of dollars

Mate, you are almost 3 years late

Obviously, you are not the first who came up with this idea. It could have sounded plausible in early December, 2017, when we were yet to reach 20k. But now we have half that price, even less than that, which kinda contradicts such logic. Speaking more generally, if this assumption were true, the price would always have less resistance to go up than to go down, which would lead to ever growing prices. However, reality seems to be quite different, and at higher prices in case of Bitcoin, the market becomes thin which leads to bursts of volatility, as per OP

Quote from: FanEagle on June 25, 2020, 12:29:11 PM

So, when you get rid of those early buyers until the 100k price that means the price would be more stable with significant amount of money required to move it to begin with. Sure it could be easier since there is no regulations and it could move however it wants but I do not see that much money changing hands that quickly and easily

Yeah, right. I remember that argument about millions of dollars sitting in the orderbooks. Sorry, it didn't work out

Alert31

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Based on my experienced while doing trade move higher volatility when the price go up because the demand increasing at the same time but be careful when the price go up because it will go down drastically,that's why always watch your buy and sell order to make sure that you will make profit and avoid loses. Those higher volatility is also a chance to earn if you know how to play with it.

deisik

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Quote from: AniviaBtc on June 24, 2020, 06:59:53 AM

Quote from: Gerci on December 22, 2017, 11:30:49 AM

For example, if you own options when implied volatility increases, the price of these options climbs higher. A change in implied volatility for the worse can create losses, however, even when you are right about the stock's ...
But a high volatility in the price of an underlying also means that there is a higher chance that the underlying price ... So even though there is a possibility of prices falling, you wouldn't mind paying higher premiums in a volatile ...

There are factors that really affect the volatility and intensity of changes in price of bitcoin, just like the stock market and other economic factors

There's definitely certain influence of the stock market as well as impact of other external factors

Or rather, the factors that affect the stock market are also affecting cryptocurrency. It would be unwise bordering on naïve to ignore them. However, this is not what is at play here. Bitcoin is inherently volatile due to its deflationary nature (hard-capped supply and people hoarding it). It could even be said its volatility is a function of time as more and more bitcoins get stashed away. You would expect prices to rise under such circumstances, and they do. But volatility still runs ahead, thus it is not so much prices that are rising but volatility surging

StonksStonksStonks

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The dow jones, as it got bigger resulted in lower volatility. As things get bigger it takes more money to move them.

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High prices would mean more stability for one simple reason. It would take a lot more money to move it to begin with. When the price is let's say 100 thousand dollars per bitcoin, if it is already there that means there was a ton of people that sold beforehand and not many early birds are left that bought from very cheap, you also can't buy in bulk neither because buying in bulk would mean tens of millions of dollars at least and probably hundreds of millions of dollars.

So, when you get rid of those early buyers until the 100k price that means the price would be more stable with significant amount of money required to move it to begin with. Sure it could be easier since there is no regulations and it could move however it wants but I do not see that much money changing hands that quickly and easily.

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Quote from: cheann20 on December 24, 2017, 11:19:23 AM

If bitcoin price is high. Thats good lot of profit we will gain. Bitcoin is volatile we wont pridect if the price will go up or down. Bitcoin is the numver one interms of digital currency its value will increase and increase if it is more people used it

It still depends, high prices can still increase and it depends on you if you will settle with that certain price or you will risks the chance of getting much higher price. That's how volatility of bitcoin works, it is not that certain on when we will sell our bitcoin especially that it can occur some changes in its price. That's why as soon as possible we need to always check the price of bitcoin in the market and check for those possible factors that can trigger its volatility. Sometimes we need to become more conscious about our assets so that we can manipulate it properly and earn more profits than losses. There are a lot of economic factors that can contribute to the changes in the price of bitcoin from time to time.

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on June 24, 2020, 05:22:26 AM

Moreover, when bitcoin was trading around $1k and now trading around $10k , it is always fluctuating in same percentage. Usually +/-5% to 10%. It means when it was around $1k, it moved ups down for $50 to $100 and now even $500/$1000 movements are most common. So, higher price tends to higher volatility as per basics.

As per thread title, high prices mean even higher volatility (emphasis added)

So it is about volatility going up with prices rising. Since volatility is usually measured in relative terms (think variance here), higher volatility at higher prices means greater price swings in percentages as well. At first I thought that this dynamic was going to reveal itself at prices exceeding 20k (like 50-100k price range). However, as it turns out now, the same dynamic is happening even at lower prices. We saw the price easily crash to 4k and then rebound to 10k in a matter of couple months, with the implication being that we are still likely to see increasing volatility even without the price rising as such

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Quote from: Gerci on December 22, 2017, 11:30:49 AM

For example, if you own options when implied volatility increases, the price of these options climbs higher. A change in implied volatility for the worse can create losses, however, even when you are right about the stock's ...
But a high volatility in the price of an underlying also means that there is a higher chance that the underlying price ... So even though there is a possibility of prices falling, you wouldn't mind paying higher premiums in a volatile ...

There are factors that really affect the volatility and intensity of changes in price of bitcoin, just like the stock market and other economic factors.

High volatility can make highs and lows in improvement of bitcoin's price, you just need to deal with it in order to achieve your goal in making a cryptocurrency as your asset.Just don't be so affected if the bitcoin's price become low, hope for its improvement and believe on its ability that it will increase its price in a certain time.

When you know that price of bitcoin will increase higher then you should be careful because there is probably a huge drop in its price after that.

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Bitcoin is a very lucrative currency to invest in As the demand for Bitcoin increases so will its price Prices fluctuate depending on the situation in the market but so far Bitcoin has not been affected by the virus, but the demand for Bitcoin is increasing due to the virus and reaching higher positions. The front has the potential to rise further Due to the high price most traders invest in Bitcoin to make money.

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Having high fluctuations means that Bitcoin will not be able to achieve the main thing that it was created for. People will just understand it as an asset they could buy and make money in return. But, none of us will say something about that because we like to make money from the asset and that's it, when it goes down everybody starts running from it. And you're right, when more money goes into the market the price goes up high and eventually they will still withdraw these money and the price will still comes crashing again. It's just how it's been and you can't really change anything about it.

Moreover, when bitcoin was trading around $1k and now trading around $10k , it is always fluctuating in same percentage. Usually +/-5% to 10%. It means when it was around $1k, it moved ups down for $50 to $100 and now even $500/$1000 movements are most common. So, higher price tends to higher volatility as per basics.

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Well, it's been over two years after the last resurrection of this thread

Today's prices are half of what they were in December 2017 when this thread had been started. A lot changed since then, but volatility is stable, no matter how ironic or oxymoronic it sounds. So I'm curious once more if someone is seriously going to challenge the point that Bitcoin volatility cannot be expected to subside in due course? I'm not already speaking about volatility running ahead of prices like 20-50-100k dollars per coin. Meanwhile, it has rather become a question of whether volatility is not going to continue notching up on its own within the established yearly range of price action, i.e. 4-14k (give or take) as years slowly go by

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Quote from: olubams on December 24, 2017, 12:08:08 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on December 22, 2017, 03:40:01 PM

If you watched the charts i'm sure you've noticed that the jump between 17 and 20K USD was on low volume. The price was never really there. If you don't get it i'll explain.
If you have very little orders on exchanges and not many people willing to sell at given prices you can put up a buy order of 1 BTC and move the price up by 100 USD, simply because there are no orders at certain price range. People saw a very fast increase and set up for sale at the level of $20k with very little orders between 100 and 20. So the price went there in numbers but only a very small group of people did the trading. If that happens you usually also need a very small amount of coins to push the price down and this is exactly what happened. The real trading starts much lower and you can see it's taking more and more time to push the price through the support levels. Every $1000 down takes much more time than it did to dump the first 3k. It's all normal, but you see it like something huge and keep asking "damn it went down by $5k already what's going on?"

Thank you for this subtle analysis which is exactly the way we just need to start seeing things when the price just went on the increase within a few days a lot of people wanted answers but still don't want the right answers. Its all about the forces of demand and supply rather than blaming the whales for everything. The price tanked, a lot of people panicked, which then led to a further crash of price now we can have something to talk about than the issues of fees.

Now it's time to resurrect this thread

Ultimately, it all comes down to the balance of supply and demand, but it is the forces working behind them which are actually interesting. So I am utterly curious, first, whether someone still doubts it is some of the whales behind this price collapse (since this is what my hypothesis basically hinges on), and, second, if there is still anyone who is going to challenge the idea presented in this thread. Also, I would like some dude to come here and explain in the open where all many million dollars allegedly waiting in the orderbooks for cheap bitcoins disappeared:

Quote from: TheQuin on December 07, 2017, 10:57:36 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 07, 2017, 10:41:40 AM

That's likely the reason why Tether continues to create their tokens out of thin air. But, as I said, it makes the market susceptible to extreme volatility.

Now if the Tethers really didn't have the backing and all of a sudden all those USD vanished that would be another matter entirely. I don't believe for one moment for that to be the case, certainly not on the quality of the arguments put forward by the agitators. That brings us back to the start, CBoE and CME will bring in money that isn't in any way under question and will make the market more stable

So where's the money that should have made market more stable?

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Quote from: darkangel11 on December 22, 2017, 03:40:01 PM

If you watched the charts i'm sure you've noticed that the jump between 17 and 20K USD was on low volume. The price was never really there. If you don't get it i'll explain.
If you have very little orders on exchanges and not many people willing to sell at given prices you can put up a buy order of 1 BTC and move the price up by 100 USD, simply because there are no orders at certain price range. People saw a very fast increase and set up for sale at the level of $20k with very little orders between 100 and 20. So the price went there in numbers but only a very small group of people did the trading. If that happens you usually also need a very small amount of coins to push the price down and this is exactly what happened. The real trading starts much lower and you can see it's taking more and more time to push the price through the support levels. Every $1000 down takes much more time than it did to dump the first 3k. It's all normal, but you see it like something huge and keep asking "damn it went down by $5k already what's going on?"

Thank you for this subtle analysis which is exactly the way we just need to start seeing things when the price just went on the increase within a few days a lot of people wanted answers but still don't want the right answers. Its all about the forces of demand and supply rather than blaming the whales for everything. The price tanked, a lot of people panicked, which then led to a further crash of price now we can have something to talk about than the issues of fees.

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Quote from: darkangel on December 24, 2017, 05:51:31 AM

Quote from: bluefly on December 22, 2017, 04:52:43 PM

I think it really depends on the trading volume. I do not deny that right now the volatility is really high

Trading volume is an important factor, it is also the decisive factor of the fluctuation of a currency. The value of a currency does not affect its fluctuations; conversely, its value depends heavily on its fluctuations.

Trading volume and the thickness of an order book are pretty much the main factors in volatility. Some coins that trade at 100 satoshi have much higher volatility than others at 0.01 BTC.

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