How do you get free power? - page 3.

notlist3d

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on December 01, 2015, 01:41:32 AM

Quote from: lightfoot on November 30, 2015, 09:41:57 PM

Quote from: VirosaGITS on November 29, 2015, 11:25:37 PM

Instead of a battery, could you use a capacitor to keep the power stable? Since its not like you'd be outputting your dam's power directly into the miner...

Perhaps, however remember that any reasonable ASIC bitcoin miner is going to be stepping power down from 12 volts to .5 volts or so for the hashing chip. Fluctuations in the incoming power supply will make the FETs work a lot harder (ie: hotter, blow up, etc) so it's in your interest to have a stable supply. A car alternator can put out 13.4 volts regulated from a wide variety of input values (because the field current can be regulated with precision) and that will make a good 12 volt 100ah battery run for a nice long time (5-10 years).

Thats not free, but thats certainly cheap in the scope of things. I had no idea, thanks for the information.

So you could easily feed current from a turbine, or solar panel into a battery and draw 12v from it at the same time? I was under the impression that a battery that could do 1000w would cost 400$+ per year, at list thats what i read on google.

I'm not sure the exact cost but it is not cheap. So keep in mind you would also need extra panels. You would be getting enough solar power to power miners during day and at night. So it add's more parts.

It just is not going to be cheap no matter how you do it. Most miners have quite a bit of watt's of gear so again expensive. Compare that to getting cheap electricity, the cheap electricity always wins.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: lightfoot on November 30, 2015, 09:41:57 PM

Quote from: VirosaGITS on November 29, 2015, 11:25:37 PM

Instead of a battery, could you use a capacitor to keep the power stable? Since its not like you'd be outputting your dam's power directly into the miner...

Perhaps, however remember that any reasonable ASIC bitcoin miner is going to be stepping power down from 12 volts to .5 volts or so for the hashing chip. Fluctuations in the incoming power supply will make the FETs work a lot harder (ie: hotter, blow up, etc) so it's in your interest to have a stable supply. A car alternator can put out 13.4 volts regulated from a wide variety of input values (because the field current can be regulated with precision) and that will make a good 12 volt 100ah battery run for a nice long time (5-10 years).

Thats not free, but thats certainly cheap in the scope of things. I had no idea, thanks for the information.

So you could easily feed current from a turbine, or solar panel into a battery and draw 12v from it at the same time? I was under the impression that a battery that could do 1000w would cost 400$+ per year, at list thats what i read on google.

lightfoot

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I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

Quote from: VirosaGITS on November 29, 2015, 11:25:37 PM

Instead of a battery, could you use a capacitor to keep the power stable? Since its not like you'd be outputting your dam's power directly into the miner...

Perhaps, however remember that any reasonable ASIC bitcoin miner is going to be stepping power down from 12 volts to .5 volts or so for the hashing chip. Fluctuations in the incoming power supply will make the FETs work a lot harder (ie: hotter, blow up, etc) so it's in your interest to have a stable supply. A car alternator can put out 13.4 volts regulated from a wide variety of input values (because the field current can be regulated with precision) and that will make a good 12 volt 100ah battery run for a nice long time (5-10 years).

notlist3d

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Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 11:28:41 AM

Quote from: notlist3d on November 30, 2015, 09:56:14 AM

Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 09:42:41 AM

Quote from: notlist3d on November 30, 2015, 09:25:21 AM

Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 03:51:08 AM

The attraction for me of Solar, particularly if you have a system with no or a very small battery is that you can continue to mine with out of date hardware and make some money regardless of difficulty and halvings without worrying about electricity cost.

Rich

The problem is everyone I have seen that has had math behind it with estimates it's very long term. Were talking 10+ years with payment upfront. We don't know what bitcoint will be like in 10 years... so hard to even speculate.

Cheap electricity no upfront cost. So I think it's still going to win out. And I wish I was wrong I would love to have some solar just so far have not been able to justify the cost.

Yes agreed and I am not talking about ROI just the ongoing prospect of a Solar Powered Miner such that I could mine at some level without further costs regardless of Miner efficiency and Difficulty.

I am still putting together parts for my experiment, have got 500W of panels for $150 and expect to complete the project for another $100. However Weather in the UK not ideal at the moment for putting the panels up so will probably not get up and running until the Spring.

Rich

But with upfront cost I don't see that your getting to mine profitably no matter miner efficiency and difficulty. You have a upfront cost you need to cover eventually unless your just doing it because you want it. And I think it's going to be a long term investment.

Have you got a initial cost and and how big are you taking about going?

I am not making myself clear.

I am not concerned about the upfront cost or ROI on the initial investment. Most of the things I buy have an upfront cost and depreciate over time. So yes I will be out a couple of Hundred Dollars for the Solar setup and that I am happy with as it's another bit of Tech to play with and learn about, if it wasn't this it would be something else.

However when I got into Mining a few Months ago I promised myself that I would only mine if the money I was making was greater than the electricity / ongoing cost. With my 15c electricity will become impossible unless I go in for clever buying and selling of the latest equipment and I do not want to take that risk.

So that is why I am going to do my Solar Experiment. It will be fun to get going and if I get it right will have very low ongoing costs and will make money albeit as time goes by that will decrease.... But it will enable me to stay in the mining game without worrying about electricity costs, difficulty increases, or am I buying and selling the right equipment at the best times.

Rich

I think we are thinking of different scales of this is the problem. I'm thinking far bigger then a few hundred in solar gear. A LOT more.

So I guess your talking about a smaller scale. How many watts is your goal in this solar experiment?

RichBC

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Quote from: Finksy on November 30, 2015, 05:04:30 PM

Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 11:28:41 AM

I am not making myself clear.

I am not concerned about the upfront cost or ROI on the initial investment. Most of the things I buy have an upfront cost and depreciate over time. So yes I will be out a couple of Hundred Dollars for the Solar setup and that I am happy with as it's another bit of Tech to play with and learn about, if it wasn't this it would be something else.

However when I got into Mining a few Months ago I promised myself that I would only mine if the money I was making was greater than the electricity / ongoing cost. With my 15c electricity will become impossible unless I go in for clever buying and selling of the latest equipment and I do not want to take that risk.

So that is why I am going to do my Solar Experiment. It will be fun to get going and if I get it right will have very low ongoing costs and will make money albeit as time goes by that will decrease.... But it will enable me to stay in the mining game without worrying about electricity costs, difficulty increases, or am I buying and selling the right equipment at the best times.

Rich

Rich, not sure what it's like where you are but here in Ontario, the government will pay up to a (CAD)$0.29/kWh Tariff for solar PV electricity tied into the grid. It used to be upwards of $0.80/kWh around 5 years ago. You may likely find that you are better off selling the solar electricity back to the government and paying for the billed electricity off the grid, even if it's slightly less romantic feeling

And, once it's payed off or if the subsidized rate drops, you still have it to go off-the-grid mining.

My BTC

Yes we have a similar scheme here, although it is being canned at the end of the Year. I have not gone for it because we plan on moving in the next couple of Years. Hence why I am interested in a small experiment and something I can play with, which is not possible with a "proper" Grid Tied approved installation.

Rich

Finksy

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Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 11:28:41 AM

I am not making myself clear.

I am not concerned about the upfront cost or ROI on the initial investment. Most of the things I buy have an upfront cost and depreciate over time. So yes I will be out a couple of Hundred Dollars for the Solar setup and that I am happy with as it's another bit of Tech to play with and learn about, if it wasn't this it would be something else.

However when I got into Mining a few Months ago I promised myself that I would only mine if the money I was making was greater than the electricity / ongoing cost. With my 15c electricity will become impossible unless I go in for clever buying and selling of the latest equipment and I do not want to take that risk.

So that is why I am going to do my Solar Experiment. It will be fun to get going and if I get it right will have very low ongoing costs and will make money albeit as time goes by that will decrease.... But it will enable me to stay in the mining game without worrying about electricity costs, difficulty increases, or am I buying and selling the right equipment at the best times.

Rich

Rich, not sure what it's like where you are but here in Ontario, the government will pay up to a (CAD)$0.29/kWh Tariff for solar PV electricity tied into the grid. It used to be upwards of $0.80/kWh around 5 years ago. You may likely find that you are better off selling the solar electricity back to the government and paying for the billed electricity off the grid, even if it's slightly less romantic feeling

And, once it's payed off or if the subsidized rate drops, you still have it to go off-the-grid mining.

My BTC

fr4nkthetank

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Now the money is free, and so the people will be

people where I live actually buy and install electric heaters in their garages....so free power ? yeah i dont have that - but what I do have is free heat

RichBC

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Quote from: notlist3d on November 30, 2015, 09:56:14 AM

Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 09:42:41 AM

Quote from: notlist3d on November 30, 2015, 09:25:21 AM

Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 03:51:08 AM

The attraction for me of Solar, particularly if you have a system with no or a very small battery is that you can continue to mine with out of date hardware and make some money regardless of difficulty and halvings without worrying about electricity cost.

Rich

The problem is everyone I have seen that has had math behind it with estimates it's very long term. Were talking 10+ years with payment upfront. We don't know what bitcoint will be like in 10 years... so hard to even speculate.

Cheap electricity no upfront cost. So I think it's still going to win out. And I wish I was wrong I would love to have some solar just so far have not been able to justify the cost.

Yes agreed and I am not talking about ROI just the ongoing prospect of a Solar Powered Miner such that I could mine at some level without further costs regardless of Miner efficiency and Difficulty.

I am still putting together parts for my experiment, have got 500W of panels for $150 and expect to complete the project for another $100. However Weather in the UK not ideal at the moment for putting the panels up so will probably not get up and running until the Spring.

Rich

But with upfront cost I don't see that your getting to mine profitably no matter miner efficiency and difficulty. You have a upfront cost you need to cover eventually unless your just doing it because you want it. And I think it's going to be a long term investment.

Have you got a initial cost and and how big are you taking about going?

I am not making myself clear.

I am not concerned about the upfront cost or ROI on the initial investment. Most of the things I buy have an upfront cost and depreciate over time. So yes I will be out a couple of Hundred Dollars for the Solar setup and that I am happy with as it's another bit of Tech to play with and learn about, if it wasn't this it would be something else.

However when I got into Mining a few Months ago I promised myself that I would only mine if the money I was making was greater than the electricity / ongoing cost. With my 15c electricity will become impossible unless I go in for clever buying and selling of the latest equipment and I do not want to take that risk.

So that is why I am going to do my Solar Experiment. It will be fun to get going and if I get it right will have very low ongoing costs and will make money albeit as time goes by that will decrease.... But it will enable me to stay in the mining game without worrying about electricity costs, difficulty increases, or am I buying and selling the right equipment at the best times.

Rich

notlist3d

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Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 09:42:41 AM

Quote from: notlist3d on November 30, 2015, 09:25:21 AM

Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 03:51:08 AM

The attraction for me of Solar, particularly if you have a system with no or a very small battery is that you can continue to mine with out of date hardware and make some money regardless of difficulty and halvings without worrying about electricity cost.

Rich

The problem is everyone I have seen that has had math behind it with estimates it's very long term. Were talking 10+ years with payment upfront. We don't know what bitcoint will be like in 10 years... so hard to even speculate.

Cheap electricity no upfront cost. So I think it's still going to win out. And I wish I was wrong I would love to have some solar just so far have not been able to justify the cost.

Yes agreed and I am not talking about ROI just the ongoing prospect of a Solar Powered Miner such that I could mine at some level without further costs regardless of Miner efficiency and Difficulty.

I am still putting together parts for my experiment, have got 500W of panels for $150 and expect to complete the project for another $100. However Weather in the UK not ideal at the moment for putting the panels up so will probably not get up and running until the Spring.

Rich

But with upfront cost I don't see that your getting to mine profitably no matter miner efficiency and difficulty. You have a upfront cost you need to cover eventually unless your just doing it because you want it. And I think it's going to be a long term investment.

Have you got a initial cost and and how big are you taking about going?

RichBC

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Quote from: notlist3d on November 30, 2015, 09:25:21 AM

Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 03:51:08 AM

The attraction for me of Solar, particularly if you have a system with no or a very small battery is that you can continue to mine with out of date hardware and make some money regardless of difficulty and halvings without worrying about electricity cost.

Rich

The problem is everyone I have seen that has had math behind it with estimates it's very long term. Were talking 10+ years with payment upfront. We don't know what bitcoint will be like in 10 years... so hard to even speculate.

Cheap electricity no upfront cost. So I think it's still going to win out. And I wish I was wrong I would love to have some solar just so far have not been able to justify the cost.

Yes agreed and I am not talking about ROI just the ongoing prospect of a Solar Powered Miner such that I could mine at some level without further costs regardless of Miner efficiency and Difficulty.

I am still putting together parts for my experiment, have got 500W of panels for $150 and expect to complete the project for another $100. However Weather in the UK not ideal at the moment for putting the panels up so will probably not get up and running until the Spring.

Rich

notlist3d

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Quote from: RichBC on November 30, 2015, 03:51:08 AM

The attraction for me of Solar, particularly if you have a system with no or a very small battery is that you can continue to mine with out of date hardware and make some money regardless of difficulty and halvings without worrying about electricity cost.

Rich

The problem is everyone I have seen that has had math behind it with estimates it's very long term. Were talking 10+ years with payment upfront. We don't know what bitcoint will be like in 10 years... so hard to even speculate.

Cheap electricity no upfront cost. So I think it's still going to win out. And I wish I was wrong I would love to have some solar just so far have not been able to justify the cost.

RichBC

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Activity: 588

Merit: 500

The attraction for me of Solar, particularly if you have a system with no or a very small battery is that you can continue to mine with out of date hardware and make some money regardless of difficulty and halvings without worrying about electricity cost.

Rich

crazyearner

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TO me theirs no free energy to begin with as you have your equipment cost to generate free energy. First you need money 2nd you need equipment 3rd you need storage for that energy, 4th to be pumped back into the grid and get paid for it, and even then energy company's buying energy off you is getting less and less. Then you will need to get the ROE Return on Equipment first before you get any ROI after equipment is paid off then indeed it is pure profit but to reach pure profit will take time as no doubt buying all the equipment is going to cost a fair amount of money out of own pocket first.

Even the solar powered usb kit is no doubt going to cost a chunk for the solar boards. Maybe a self sustained system proving you got sun all year round and the have some back up units for night time would be good but still maybe nano tech when that comes more into play and units are more power effective then stuff like this might be a thing of the future.

notlist3d

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Quote from: philipma1957 on November 28, 2015, 11:35:17 PM

Quote from: notlist3d on November 28, 2015, 11:00:33 PM

Quote from: Vika NSFW on November 28, 2015, 06:54:25 PM

Quote from: notlist3d on November 28, 2015, 04:31:25 PM

But then only get power during sun.

You produce at day and sell to electric company.
When You consume at night, you bought from electric company.
No batteries need.

But you would need around double the panels correct? So you save on battery but spend more on panels.

Have you done any math to see cost of this? I still think it would be pretty high specifically if you are producing enough to sell to power company normally that is not a tiny amount.

panels last a real long time. As of today all batteries die too fast.

So mixed use with your power company is best in most USA states.

A panel working for 15-20 years

A battery working for 3-5 years.

So larger in house systems don't do battery they mix with power company.

What is ROI time on whole system except batteries. Seems like with panel's and wiring new box, etc. Still a lot of costs. Are we still talking 10+ years before ROI? Just in most I have seen it's a pretty long term bet.

And it truly is really hard to beat low electricity price. I think even without batteries the cheap electricity likely wins over time.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: lightfoot on November 29, 2015, 11:14:38 PM

You can also be more efficient, or use resources more efficiently. That energy that used to be wearing down rocks (a noble experience no doubt) or heating your attic in the summer (and thus your house) can be redirected into something that makes money like a bitcoin miner like a bitcoin exhaust fan system or a peltier turbine and a penstock pipe.

Back in the day my joke was to build a heating element for a 40 gallon water heater out of bitcoin hashing engines. 2,000 or so watts of power being used to heat the water in your house. Why not bitcoin ASICs, who cares if they are block erupters? (Technically the better answer is a solar domestic hot water system if you have electric heated hot water, but that is a digression).

Solar electricity is cool, but solar is only 17% efficient at light---power. SDHW is 50-70% efficient. So you have a certain amount of roof space put the hot water system on first, then the electric for bitcoin miners. Unless you have natural gas.

But on a less serious note, if you have an abandoned/beaver dam sitting around what's the harm in diverting .00001% of the water into a 4 inch pipe to a small turbine, 2,000 watt alternator, a bunch of miners, and a cheap-ass 4g plan? What else is the water going to do? :-)

You just need to return the water and just need elevation to move to water around for free. There is still hardware cost to be paid upfront and i assume the turbine has parts that has a lifetime, creating a maintenance cost, but it is probably very low.

Instead of a battery, could you use a capacitor to keep the power stable? Since its not like you'd be outputting your dam's power directly into the miner...

lightfoot

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I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

You can also be more efficient, or use resources more efficiently. That energy that used to be wearing down rocks (a noble experience no doubt) or heating your attic in the summer (and thus your house) can be redirected into something that makes money like a bitcoin miner like a bitcoin exhaust fan system or a peltier turbine and a penstock pipe.

Back in the day my joke was to build a heating element for a 40 gallon water heater out of bitcoin hashing engines. 2,000 or so watts of power being used to heat the water in your house. Why not bitcoin ASICs, who cares if they are block erupters? (Technically the better answer is a solar domestic hot water system if you have electric heated hot water, but that is a digression).

Solar electricity is cool, but solar is only 17% efficient at light---power. SDHW is 50-70% efficient. So you have a certain amount of roof space put the hot water system on first, then the electric for bitcoin miners. Unless you have natural gas.

But on a less serious note, if you have an abandoned/beaver dam sitting around what's the harm in diverting .00001% of the water into a 4 inch pipe to a small turbine, 2,000 watt alternator, a bunch of miners, and a cheap-ass 4g plan? What else is the water going to do? :-)

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: inget on November 29, 2015, 02:15:19 PM

Power is never free. If you are getting free power. Somebody is paying for it.

Could be your landowner, your boss or some unknown person. Make sure you are not misusing (stealing power).

Wrong. There are several way to pay a flat or fix cost and then afterwards not pay more for how much you are consuming. If you don't pay more for mining, then you do not pay for the quantity you use for mining and it is thus free.

Quote from: Oscoda on November 29, 2015, 03:12:08 PM

In this world is so impossible to have a free power.

Well if you are a CEO of a power company than you have free power xD

See my previous comment, its not because everything has its cost or requirement that you need to pay for your electricity rate consumption

Oscoda

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In this world is so impossible to have a free power.

Well if you are a CEO of a power company than you have free power xD

inget

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Power is never free. If you are getting free power. Somebody is paying for it.

Could be your landowner, your boss or some unknown person. Make sure you are not misusing (stealing power).

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: lightfoot on November 29, 2015, 12:06:39 AM

Solar is pretty lame. I probably generate 5kw a day on my system, which a 1kw farm can chew up in 5 hours. Helps a bit but you have to consider you could have sold that power back to the utility.

The way to go is micro-hydro. Really, find a stream on your property, install a 1,000 watt alternator/peltier turbine and you're in business 24*7*forever. Now for a real win, finding an abandoned dam and installing a turbine, miners (hey, all that water is FREE COOLING!) and a cell phone for internet and you're all set......

Yes, of course, let me find a stream in my backyard;

http://asmallgreenspace.com/home/wp-content/themes/locus/functions/img_resize/resize.php?src=http://asmallgreenspace.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Helene_a1.jpg&w=420&h=266&zc=1

*roll eyes* Tongue

But yeah it is actually much better than pretty much anything else on several factor and is why electricity is so cheap here.

Topic: How do you get free power? - page 3. (Read 6090 times)