How do you keep your mnemonic phrases? - page 4.

xIIImaL

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Forsyth Jones on May 24, 2018, 05:17:39 PM

has anyone had the idea of simply jotting down your mnemonic with a pen with invisible ink?

see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaSJxMOB7j8

This one may be useful thing mate, partially you have promoted your youtube videos link here right. We can find the mnemonic phrase saving assistance while you are logging into the wallet itself mate. I advice you to check that and do what ever wallet you use.

If you use the hardware wallet or desktop wallet you can just save that fund on personal flash drive or somewhere mate.
That is enough to keep your wallet safe. Nothing else needed.

Orcunland

newbie

Activity: 31

Merit: 0

A lot of great ideas have been popped up to this. Most of them lighted up new ideas in my mind.
But here is my way to do it.

There is no need to know cryptography to hide or secure anything. You should come up with the idea which is developed by you and only yourself.
Let's say you have 24 words which are generated by your Nano S. First, you can find 24 different places for your 24 different words to hide. Of course, those places should not locate anywhere near each other, or should not be the same one.

Finding a pattern which is going to reveal the mnemonic phrases one by one as in order will be the second job you should handle.
This way, you only need to learn a pattern which will help you to solve the puzzle.

P.S: In case of any problem, you should have plan B too

jenyAE88

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

There are many different ways
Since other posters already suggested good ideas, I'd like to share one sort of "unorthodox" way of storing your mnemonic phrases.

evrenistik

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

i keep it in my brain

Forsyth Jones

hero member

Activity: 1120

Merit: 540

Duelbits - Play for Free | Win for Real

has anyone had the idea of simply jotting down your mnemonic with a pen with invisible ink?

see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaSJxMOB7j8

f3tus

sr. member

Activity: 317

Merit: 275

Quote from: bob123 on May 24, 2018, 09:33:40 AM

This doesn't change anything.
Trezor is simply going to implement this algorithm.

It doesn't matter who is (or: is not) going to implement it. You can always use this algorithm on your own.

This algorithm does exist since 1979.

I thought it was an implementation similar to https://github.com/oed/seedsplit that converts the shards into actual mnemonic words. This is what TREZOR are working on. I would not recommend storing e.g.:

Quote

80154d8c529c4a29ee9a2882e8ac10f14d6d9875b47ef626832675fcb3e4453c4e39699bd21ca4f f52a2e9df1a59cb469d6fa03170e6b1d82800e41b47552223e6e72a9a04b59dcd7503abc8996379 9e2d4c38985ecb20050a9826170a08f55562e2e3b1ff3559ecb7617ad60839b372870b25c454868 c992926f08e0d126898992

as your seed words at all.

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: f3tus on May 23, 2018, 11:16:07 AM

That's not a recommended way to store your mnemonic - if the above code changes/gets removed, you're fucked.

Shamirs secret sharing is not some 'script' created by a 3rd person which can be changed.
It is an algorithm. It has been created by Adi Shamir (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing).
The code used on the website is open source: https://github.com/iancoleman/shamir39.

Quote from: f3tus on May 23, 2018, 11:16:07 AM

Not until this becomes a BIP anyway. TREZOR are working on it: https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/blob/master/slip-0039.md

This doesn't change anything.
Trezor is simply going to implement this algorithm.

It doesn't matter who is (or: is not) going to implement it. You can always use this algorithm on your own.

This algorithm does exist since 1979.

f3tus

sr. member

Activity: 317

Merit: 275

Quote from: bob123 on May 23, 2018, 08:24:26 AM

It is better to use shamir's secret sharing. You can split your seed into any kind of combination needed (e.g. 2 of 4, 3 of 5, ... ).

You can take a look at https://iancoleman.io/shamir/ to check shamirs secret sharing. Try it out yourself. With 2 out of 4 you just need ANY 2 out of these 4 to reconstruct the seed. Not 2 specific ones (like in your example).

But make sure to download the site and run it offline if you are going to use it.

That's not a recommended way to store your mnemonic - if the above code changes/gets removed, you're fucked. Not until this becomes a BIP anyway. TREZOR are working on it: https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/blob/master/slip-0039.md

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: tranthetai on May 23, 2018, 10:02:03 AM

The Mnemonic phrase is a private key that is not encrypted.

The mnemonic phrase is just a depiction of a (big random) number. This big random number (seed) is used to derive private keys.
The mnemonic phrase is being used because it is less error-prone when backing up (12 - 24 words) than a 256 bit long decimal/hex value.
It basically just is a big number which is being encoded into words using a special 'sheme'. See more here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki.

tranthetai

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

The Mnemonic phrase is a private key that is not encrypted. If someone did get ahold of your Mnemonic phrase, it is equivalent to taking control of your wallet.

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: LtMotioN on May 23, 2018, 06:45:01 AM

Store two sets of the first 50% of the phrase and 2 sets of the last 50% of the phrase in four places. Places like your parents house, inside your roof, safety deposit boxes or a close friends house are good to consider.

You dont have to trust the person that much because they wont have the complete phrase.

There are better approaches than this one.
With your approach if you split your seed into part A and B, store them at 4 different places and 2 now get lost you have a 50/50 chance that you can't recover your seed anymore.
In this case it would depend which of these 2 parts (A or B) got lost. If both A-parts get lost, you are out of luck and have 2 redundant part B left.

It is better to use shamir's secret sharing. You can split your seed into any kind of combination needed (e.g. 2 of 4, 3 of 5, ... ).

You can take a look at https://iancoleman.io/shamir/ to check shamirs secret sharing. Try it out yourself. With 2 out of 4 you just need ANY 2 out of these 4 to reconstruct the seed. Not 2 specific ones (like in your example).

But make sure to download the site and run it offline if you are going to use it.

LtMotioN

member

Activity: 210

Merit: 29

Store two sets of the first 50% of the phrase and 2 sets of the last 50% of the phrase in four places. Places like your parents house, inside your roof, safety deposit boxes or a close friends house are good to consider.

You dont have to trust the person that much because they wont have the complete phrase.

mettalmag

legendary

Activity: 1084

Merit: 1003

≡v≡

it is ironic but one copy of my hard wallet mnemonics are stored in bank storage
other copies in fire proof safe
never copy paste, never use word or any other digital document for those.
I always right them down on paper, then do a reset and check in action if everything works and only after then I store them.
For 2fa QR codes I use offline pc and printer and hideez key

Wahyud11

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Save,
before saving we must complete the enconding first, then it can be stored for a certain time, at this stage there is storage of some notes, impressions that have been received from previous experience.

Emmy92

jr. member

Activity: 837

Merit: 1

Mnemonic phrase you say? Not private key right. As for me I write it down and keep in secure and strategic places within my home. I don't keep in my phone nor system. The best way is to write it down... Hope it helps.

anhzaibro

member

Activity: 238

Merit: 10

You can store them in a personal notebook or a notebook software written by yourself. I think it's quite safe. And you should mess up the information according to your own rules.

Stedsm

legendary

Activity: 3052

Merit: 1273

First, try billfodl. It's a better way if you want to keep your seeds and keys secured - https://billfodl.com/pages/compare-to-cryptosteel

Second way, and the most cheaper one that I personally follow is, you can buy some small (memory) sized memory cards and keep your private keys secured in them as well, you can put each of your cards at different places so that you can have alternatives that if one card goes corrupt, you can use the other ones.

Sonofshmidt

newbie

Activity: 336

Merit: 0

Quote from: Spendulus on May 09, 2018, 07:00:43 PM

Quote from: triciaa478 on April 29, 2018, 05:30:53 AM

Mostly websites recommend you to write your mnemonic phrases or backups but I don't think is a safety habit. For years, what I do is to copy and paste it in microsoft word document. I password protect it and then send it to my own email that is secured with a google 2fa and my phone number. In such a case, I walk with my backup wherever I go, and it will take miracle for anyone to get break into.

There are 18,000 ways your method can and has been hacked.

Just one example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZdTP8erZE0

I just wrote it once in my diary and use it when in need:)

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2926

Merit: 1386

Quote from: triciaa478 on April 29, 2018, 05:30:53 AM

Mostly websites recommend you to write your mnemonic phrases or backups but I don't think is a safety habit. For years, what I do is to copy and paste it in microsoft word document. I password protect it and then send it to my own email that is secured with a google 2fa and my phone number. In such a case, I walk with my backup wherever I go, and it will take miracle for anyone to get break into.

There are 18,000 ways your method can and has been hacked.

Just one example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZdTP8erZE0

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2926

Merit: 1386

Quote from: Commie on April 19, 2018, 05:01:02 AM

Here's a total paranoid way of storing it. It was (and probably still is) used a lot for message coding by intelligence services of many countries, so old, but still effective.
Take a book. Any book you like.
Find all the words your mnemonic phrase contains.
Mark their location using page-paragraph-word number combination, ie 120826 would mean page 12, paragraph 8, word 26.
As a result you will have a series of 6 digit numbers which you are free to store on your Google drive, email to yourself or paint on your roof

Without knowing what the key book is no one will be able to decipher it.

Actually there's a bit more to it than that.

Not "any book you like" but "any book you can get an exact page for page, word by word" copy of anytime in the future.

For example the first edition of Heinlien , The Moon is a Harsh Mistress."

First editions are really good for this purpose. For a famous book these are not going to be cheap, a couple hundred USD or so.

Topic: How do you keep your mnemonic phrases? - page 4. (Read 1584 times)