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Topic: How do you keep your mnemonic phrases? - page 5. (Read 1584 times)

legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
OK, this would sound noobish but I'm interested to know how other people keep the mnemonic phrase generated by the wallet. I do have the wallets secured with a pw and backed up (still not enough to warrant a hardware wallet) but I also have the passphrases handwritten in paper (someone said be wary of printers) and stashed somewhere but I'm wondering if there's a better way to keep them.

I don't know any cryptography but I'm thinking of shuffling the words rather than writing them down in order. Like a 12x12 grid where I'd spread them out in certain patterns and then finished with filler words. Since it's no longer as straight-forward should anyone get their hands on it, I think it would finally be safer to keep digital copies of it. Any suggestions?
very interesting topic . i will convert mnemonic phrases to arabic numerals . each word as a group . each letter as a unit . such as :" good day"  it is "[7, 15,15,4][4,1,25]" the numbers are the order of letters in the alphabet . you can also assign a specific number to each letter .

Very briefly, may I explain why each of these is a bad idea?

Cryptographic security is not a new topic and anything you think up has like been thought up decades ago and critiqued.

Actually the 12x12 grid is a variation of an old technique.

Why not just read about and use industry standard methods?
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
Since other posters already suggested good ideas, I'd like to share one sort of "unorthodox" way of storing your mnemonic phrases.

Memorize it. Yes, you heard that right. A 12-word recovery seed is a lot easier to memorize that most people thought(though memorizing 24-word seed is still possible, just significantly harder). But I understand that this is definitely not for everyone.
This is very wrong because you can easily forget it

Hence the reason why I said "this is definitely not for everyone".

As someone who has just for fun memorized card decks and just to prove he could do it memorized four decks, I strongly advise against this.

Yes this is a method which is usable for a person with a trained memory. But for people who do not even know what that means, it is an extremely bad idea.
hero member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 540
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thanks Bob, I know nothing is encrypted in the sentence, just an additional word that derives another HD wallet, if anyone see my mnemonic phrase, they will not know if it have BIP39 password or additional word, actually I made a topic about it and a tutorial on how to protect your mnemonic with password BIP39 at a glance here, but the wallets Coinomi, electrum, mycelium and samourai allow you to add BIP39 password in your mnemonic. I think this is the best way to protect your backup wallet with your founds.
jr. member
Activity: 105
Merit: 1
I am using an archive width a random name: The key hunter couldn't to find it through a search on documents.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 2481
There is a way to encrypt the mnemonic code at the time of creating the wallet, if it is called BIP39 encryption consists of adding a password on top of your mnemonic, as if it were an additional word, a second authentication factor, I use this method and do not need worry about hiding my mnemonic, because even if someone has access, it's encrypted, it works like encrypting a paperwallet with BIP38.

BIP39 does not define any encryption. The additional word (passphrase) is not used to encrypt your mnemonic seed.
The additional word is used to derive a different (pseudorandom) seed (which is then used to derive HD wallets) from your mnemonic seed.

If someone gets access to your mnemonic seed, he will see all words. Nothing is encrypted.
But this mnemonic seed will generate a different seed (which is then used to generate HD wallet) than the same mnemonic seed with the additional word.

This is two-factor-authentication because you need to (1) have something (the mnemonic seed) and (2) know something (the additional word (=passphrase)).
This way you can add plausible deniability to your wallet. Use the mnemonic seed without a passphrase for a low-value wallet and use one with a passphrase for your 'big' holdings.
You will be able to disclose your seed/wallet to authorities/gangster/etc. without them being able to know you have a second (hidden) wallet tied to that seed.


You can read more about the additional word (passphrase) usage of BIP39 on github: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki#from-mnemonic-to-seed
hero member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 540
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There is a way to encrypt the mnemonic code at the time of creating the wallet, if it is called BIP39 encryption consists of adding a password on top of your mnemonic, as if it were an additional word, a second authentication factor, I use this method and do not need worry about hiding my mnemonic, because even if someone has access, it's encrypted, it works like encrypting a paperwallet with BIP38.

See it: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mnemonic_phrase#Two-Factor_Mnemonic_Phrases
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 2481
When it comes to my mnemonic phrases, I just copy and paste it in a word document then store it here in my smartphone.

Though sounds careless, I'm still confident that they are safe because I do not permit anyone to touch my personal stuffs especially that wallet and phone.

This sounds more than just careless.
Storing your mnemonic seed on your mobile phone (unencrypted  Huh ) is a bad idea.
Mobile phone manufacturer often skip security patches while displaying everything would be up-to-date. [1]

You are running a relatively huge risk of getting your seed compromised.

A digital storage is never a good idea for such sensitive information (doesn't matter whether encrypted or not).
The only form of digital storage which seems to be 'ok' is to have a backup encrypted on a device which is not connected to the internet (USB only used for this purpose, Offline PC, ...).


Storing your seed printed/written on a piece of paper in your wallet at home would probably be way more secure.



[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/13/android-phone-makers-skip-security-updates-users-smartphone-software-google
hero member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 540
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read my post Here that I did, I approached strategies on how to protect their mnemonic codes, it is in Portuguese but if they want me to translate it into the English language I can do it later. I hope you can understand.
full member
Activity: 1232
Merit: 186
We're the same somehow, I also write my usernames and passwords of my crypto-related accounts in a piece of paper and put it inside my wallet. That wallet is not the wallet I daily used because I'm scared that I will lose it so I just place it in my personal drawer. When it comes to my mnemonic phrases, I just copy and paste it in a word document then store it here in my smartphone. Though sounds careless, I'm still confident that they are safe because I do not permit anyone to touch my personal stuffs especially that wallet and phone. Besides, my drawer has a padlock and my phone is full of locks so  I'm not worried at all. Smiley 
hero member
Activity: 2926
Merit: 722
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Things that are simple can easily caught up if there is someone that's trying to breach your keys out.

Especially when that someone is using a simple baseball bat to get them from you LOL.
Jokes aside though, the method I have described above is about as simple as it may get and very secure.
Not just a baseball bat but also a gun?
https://themerkle.com/bitcoin-seeking-gangsters-hold-cryptocurrency-trader-at-gunpoint-in-his-own-home/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/28/britains-first-bitcoin-heist-trader-forced-gunpoint-transfer/
Its really a worrying thing but only to those people who holds up huge amounts into their own stashes. Therefore we should really remain silent on what we possess. Dont expose or do create awareness publicly because once criminal minds will able to know then your life is at risk.You might able to avoid online hackers but you would really be prone into physical harm. On my side i do store up my mnemonic phrases on a notepad and then save it on a USB into 3 copies or files. Then store it up into places which someone in the house didnt know where i do placed it.
Yes keeping silent and remaining to be a low key holder will suit everyone to protect yourself from such incidents like the links that I posted.

This is why crypto's are anonymous because it helps us to hide on how much we are holding and that makes you remain low key by not letting someone know it.

Don't be too boastful with your holdings -- this kind off topic, I'll leave.
Some people cant really resist on saying it out regarding into their own bitcoin holdings which will mold up bad intentions if someone will able to know. Just keep low and be sensible on the things you do as long you do keep yourself away from danger.We should mind basic stuffs and do all sort of things that will increase  security if your holdings.
newbie
Activity: 80
Merit: 0
i remember this phrases only, nothing special.
I starting to remember it only without any writing, when my friend lose his bag with notebook and phone.

newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
I have two handwritten ones, both hidden in extremely secure places. You should never have a printed one or any digital "shadow" of them.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 5637
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Mostly websites recommend you to write your mnemonic phrases or backups but I don't think is a safety habit. For years, what I do is to copy and paste it in microsoft word document. I password protect it  and then send it to my own email that is secured with a google 2fa and my phone number. In such a case, I walk with my backup wherever I go, and it will take miracle for anyone to get break into.

I think something so important and sensitive should never be stored in digital form,especially not in e-mail even if it is protected with strong password and 2FA.There is a at least 3 risk in such storage :


- E-mail service can go down anytime.
- 2FA can be cracked/bypassed.
- Password can be hack by malware/keylogger.

This is not something that happens to anyone and every day,but should certainly be taken into consideration.For me best way to store seed it to carve words in some durable material (water&fire resistant) and hide them in a safe place.It is necessary to avoid places that will thieves first search,so you should turn on the imagination, in the end everyone is responsible for its assets.
jr. member
Activity: 203
Merit: 3
ledger nano and mnemonic phrases (24 caracters) into a secret box at home
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 520
Guys many people should keep a part of the mnemonic in 2 or 3 different places, this is a bad strategy that has a great chance of causing the loss of your funds, DO NOT DO THAT because if a set of 6 words is discovered, it becomes easier to bruteforce the rest of the sentence.

Seeds are as simple like keeping the fund on one place mate. We all people keep the private key secured right. Same like that you can keep the mnemonic phrases also in a safe place mate.
I usually go with the cloud storage like OneDrive or GoogleDrive. I did not loose any fund so far on MEW or bitcoin wallets.
Usually seeds are been asking on metamask, electrum and some desktop wallets.
sr. member
Activity: 317
Merit: 275
Guys many people should keep a part of the mnemonic in 2 or 3 different places, this is a bad strategy that has a great chance of causing the loss of your funds, DO NOT DO THAT because if a set of 6 words is discovered, it becomes easier to bruteforce the rest of the sentence.
This is an issue only if you have a 12-word seed, if you have 24, it'll take thousands of years to bruteforce 12 of them. Even if you have a 12-word seed, if you encrypt it, it shouldn't be a problem.
hero member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 540
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Guys many people should keep a part of the mnemonic in 2 or 3 different places, this is a bad strategy that has a great chance of causing the loss of your funds, DO NOT DO THAT because if a set of 6 words is discovered, it becomes easier to bruteforce the rest of the sentence.
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
I keep it in my notebook Smiley and put it in a cabinet with lock Smiley
jr. member
Activity: 102
Merit: 5
That would be too cumbersome for you to comprehend. I understand the insecurity thought attached to being careful. Easy way out is create like a 4layer folder (You know like a folder inside a folder which is inside another folder and all inside a folder and save ur screenshot of the picture and also text note. Naming them accordingly.
newbie
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
I keep in secure place away from home also not easy access.
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