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Topic: How do you keep your mnemonic phrases? - page 7. (Read 1584 times)

newbie
Activity: 19
Merit: 0
April 23, 2018, 06:18:48 AM
#48
Here's a total paranoid way of storing it. It was (and probably still is) used a lot for message coding by intelligence services of many countries, so old, but still effective.
Take a book. Any book you like.
Find all the words your mnemonic phrase contains.
Mark their location using page-paragraph-word number combination, ie 120826 would mean page 12, paragraph 8, word 26.
As a result you will have a series of 6 digit numbers which you are free to store on your Google drive, email to yourself or paint on your roof Smiley Without knowing what the key book is no one will be able to decipher it.

I think think this was one of the best ideas so far. Distributed and fault tolerant.
member
Activity: 378
Merit: 12
Secure, scalable blockchain that actually works
April 20, 2018, 06:49:53 PM
#47
from wikipedia:
most people write down phrases on paper but they can be stored in many other ways such as memorizing, engraving on metal, writing in the margins of a book, chiseling into a stone tablet or any other creative and inventive way.

For storing on paper writing with pencil is much better than pen[4]. Paper should be acid-free or archival paper, and stored in the dark avoiding extremes of heat and moisture

Some people get the idea to split up their phrases. Storing 6 words in one location and the other 6 words in another location. This is a bad idea and should not be done, because if one set of 6 words is discovered then it becomes easier to bruteforce the rest of the phrase. Storing bitcoins in multiple locations like this should be done via multisignature wallets instead.

Another bad idea is to add random decoy words that are somehow meaningful to you, and later remove them to be left only with the 12 word phrase. The phrase words come from a known dictionary (see next section), so anybody can use that dictionary to weed out the decoy words.

It could be a good idea to write some words of explanation on the same paper as the mnemonic phrase.
full member
Activity: 621
Merit: 108
April 20, 2018, 04:30:42 PM
#46
Things that are simple can easily caught up if there is someone that's trying to breach your keys out.

Especially when that someone is using a simple baseball bat to get them from you LOL.
Jokes aside though, the method I have described above is about as simple as it may get and very secure.
hero member
Activity: 3066
Merit: 629
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
April 20, 2018, 07:45:07 AM
#45
But how you will identify it if you are about to retrieve the wallet? You have to put some hint of doing this. This came to my mind but I'm very easy to forget and my memory doesn't works well now.
The "story" part gave me an idea. Maybe it can be encrypted into a poem that can be then memorized. Would be longer but seems easier to memorize than a random sequence of words. Thanks for the suggestion.
Wooah I remember someone suggested and created this type of encryption to his private key. Making a story with the use of your private keys will give confusion if someone accidentally sees your PK's. Thanks for reminding me about this type of sequence and the story thing.  This is familiar to me and it's a good way to protect it that way, you don't have to memorize it you only need some hints on what are the most important words.

Yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of a number sequence you can easily remember (special dates, etc) and using that as key to extract the words form the sentence. Am starting to read up on cryptography now. Interesting stuff.
Good luck about that mate and give us your little update if you are done with it.

I think this is over the top. I've never seen a book printed on a grid, so I presume you'd have to do that yourself, too.
He has to do it alone and it's DIY security.


Why bother? Keep things simple.
Things that are simple can easily caught up if there is someone that's trying to breach your keys out.
full member
Activity: 621
Merit: 108
April 19, 2018, 09:29:55 PM
#44
But how you will identify it if you are about to retrieve the wallet? You have to put some hint of doing this. This came to my mind but I'm very easy to forget and my memory doesn't works well now.
The "story" part gave me an idea. Maybe it can be encrypted into a poem that can be then memorized. Would be longer but seems easier to memorize than a random sequence of words. Thanks for the suggestion.
Wooah I remember someone suggested and created this type of encryption to his private key. Making a story with the use of your private keys will give confusion if someone accidentally sees your PK's. Thanks for reminding me about this type of sequence and the story thing.  This is familiar to me and it's a good way to protect it that way, you don't have to memorize it you only need some hints on what are the most important words.

Yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of a number sequence you can easily remember (special dates, etc) and using that as key to extract the words form the sentence. Am starting to read up on cryptography now. Interesting stuff.

Here's a total paranoid way of storing it. It was (and probably still is) used a lot for message coding by intelligence services of many countries, so old, but still effective.
Take a book. Any book you like.
Find all the words your mnemonic phrase contains.
Mark their location using page-paragraph-word number combination, ie 120826 would mean page 12, paragraph 8, word 26.
As a result you will have a series of 6 digit numbers which you are free to store on your Google drive, email to yourself or paint on your roof Smiley Without knowing what the key book is no one will be able to decipher it.

That's quite cool. I think the good thing about is is that you can use any book, there's less danger of you losing it since many books are available online, you can just download them if you lost your physical copy and then just do a pen-and-paper solving.

You mentioning books reminded me of a technique I saw in a Kdrama. To decipher the number sequence, basically the content of the book is written on a grid. The number are actually pairs showing the coordinates in the grid so they'd spell out the words. I suppose the hard part is keeping the sequence. Most people are not that good a remembering strings of numbers.

I think this is over the top. I've never seen a book printed on a grid, so I presume you'd have to do that yourself, too. Why bother? Keep things simple.
sr. member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 279
April 19, 2018, 04:12:18 PM
#43
But how you will identify it if you are about to retrieve the wallet? You have to put some hint of doing this. This came to my mind but I'm very easy to forget and my memory doesn't works well now.
The "story" part gave me an idea. Maybe it can be encrypted into a poem that can be then memorized. Would be longer but seems easier to memorize than a random sequence of words. Thanks for the suggestion.
Wooah I remember someone suggested and created this type of encryption to his private key. Making a story with the use of your private keys will give confusion if someone accidentally sees your PK's. Thanks for reminding me about this type of sequence and the story thing.  This is familiar to me and it's a good way to protect it that way, you don't have to memorize it you only need some hints on what are the most important words.

Yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of a number sequence you can easily remember (special dates, etc) and using that as key to extract the words form the sentence. Am starting to read up on cryptography now. Interesting stuff.

Here's a total paranoid way of storing it. It was (and probably still is) used a lot for message coding by intelligence services of many countries, so old, but still effective.
Take a book. Any book you like.
Find all the words your mnemonic phrase contains.
Mark their location using page-paragraph-word number combination, ie 120826 would mean page 12, paragraph 8, word 26.
As a result you will have a series of 6 digit numbers which you are free to store on your Google drive, email to yourself or paint on your roof Smiley Without knowing what the key book is no one will be able to decipher it.

That's quite cool. I think the good thing about is is that you can use any book, there's less danger of you losing it since many books are available online, you can just download them if you lost your physical copy and then just do a pen-and-paper solving.

You mentioning books reminded me of a technique I saw in a Kdrama. To decipher the number sequence, basically the content of the book is written on a grid. The number are actually pairs showing the coordinates in the grid so they'd spell out the words. I suppose the hard part is keeping the sequence. Most people are not that good a remembering strings of numbers.
full member
Activity: 621
Merit: 108
April 19, 2018, 05:01:02 AM
#42
Here's a total paranoid way of storing it. It was (and probably still is) used a lot for message coding by intelligence services of many countries, so old, but still effective.
Take a book. Any book you like.
Find all the words your mnemonic phrase contains.
Mark their location using page-paragraph-word number combination, ie 120826 would mean page 12, paragraph 8, word 26.
As a result you will have a series of 6 digit numbers which you are free to store on your Google drive, email to yourself or paint on your roof Smiley Without knowing what the key book is no one will be able to decipher it.
hero member
Activity: 3066
Merit: 629
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
April 18, 2018, 10:49:34 PM
#41
But how you will identify it if you are about to retrieve the wallet? You have to put some hint of doing this. This came to my mind but I'm very easy to forget and my memory doesn't works well now.
The "story" part gave me an idea. Maybe it can be encrypted into a poem that can be then memorized. Would be longer but seems easier to memorize than a random sequence of words. Thanks for the suggestion.
Wooah I remember someone suggested and created this type of encryption to his private key. Making a story with the use of your private keys will give confusion if someone accidentally sees your PK's. Thanks for reminding me about this type of sequence and the story thing.  This is familiar to me and it's a good way to protect it that way, you don't have to memorize it you only need some hints on what are the most important words.
Mnemonic is an unencrypted private key. If it's discover by unauthorized parties, then they can have complete access to it. The following are the key points to remember.

1. Back up mnemonic immediately, when you create a wallet in imToken
2. Copy mnemonic on a piece of paper, don't use screenshots.
3. Ensure the mnemonic is correct, you can check out by Myetherwallet.
4. Keep your mnemonic safe when you save it.

Anyone who discovers the phrase can steal the bitcoins, so it must be kept safe like cash. Never type it on a website.
You miss our little discussion. Before telling us on what we should you at least read on what we are talking about the encryption thing and by the way of hiding PK's through making a "story" type which is composed of those words. Maybe you just misquote our conversion mate but we are on bitcoin discussion and MEW is an altcoin so you better put that piece of advice on the Altcoin Discussion if someone asks on how he can keep his mnemonic phrases on MEW.
full member
Activity: 304
Merit: 100
April 18, 2018, 10:33:06 PM
#40
Since I only have one wallet and one mnemonic phrase, hence I have crammed up that line in my mind. I do not trust physical or virtual memory and hence memorizing it was the best option I had. I feel there isn't anything which is as secure as this is. But, if I hadn't memorized, I would have probably stored it on google drive.
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 250
April 18, 2018, 10:25:44 PM
#39
But how you will identify it if you are about to retrieve the wallet? You have to put some hint of doing this. This came to my mind but I'm very easy to forget and my memory doesn't works well now.
The "story" part gave me an idea. Maybe it can be encrypted into a poem that can be then memorized. Would be longer but seems easier to memorize than a random sequence of words. Thanks for the suggestion.
Wooah I remember someone suggested and created this type of encryption to his private key. Making a story with the use of your private keys will give confusion if someone accidentally sees your PK's. Thanks for reminding me about this type of sequence and the story thing.  This is familiar to me and it's a good way to protect it that way, you don't have to memorize it you only need some hints on what are the most important words.
Mnemonic is an unencrypted private key. If it's discover by unauthorized parties, then they can have complete access to it. The following are the key points to remember.

1. Back up mnemonic immediately, when you create a wallet in imToken
2. Copy mnemonic on a piece of paper, don't use screenshots.
3. Ensure the mnemonic is correct, you can check out by Myetherwallet.
4. Keep your mnemonic safe when you save it.

Anyone who discovers the phrase can steal the bitcoins, so it must be kept safe like cash. Never type it on a website.
hero member
Activity: 3066
Merit: 629
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
April 18, 2018, 09:40:09 PM
#38
But how you will identify it if you are about to retrieve the wallet? You have to put some hint of doing this. This came to my mind but I'm very easy to forget and my memory doesn't works well now.
The "story" part gave me an idea. Maybe it can be encrypted into a poem that can be then memorized. Would be longer but seems easier to memorize than a random sequence of words. Thanks for the suggestion.
Wooah I remember someone suggested and created this type of encryption to his private key. Making a story with the use of your private keys will give confusion if someone accidentally sees your PK's. Thanks for reminding me about this type of sequence and the story thing.  This is familiar to me and it's a good way to protect it that way, you don't have to memorize it you only need some hints on what are the most important words.
member
Activity: 150
Merit: 25
April 17, 2018, 05:22:53 PM
#37
I always keep my mnemonic phrases in the usb flash drive)And it is always with me in any case))
sr. member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 279
April 17, 2018, 01:37:58 PM
#36
I suppose the malware can simply track whether you have wallet software installed and only then it would check the printer memory? I was reading an article yesterday. Apparently even the pass phrase is not save anymore since they can just take a screenshot of the screen.

yeah well if you have a keylogger they can simply notice and record every action you take such as keys you press on your keyboard, what you see on your screen, clicks of your mouse,... this is actually why air-gapped machines are used for generating your private keys and notion of cold storage exists https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Cold_storage

Yes I've heard about that. Didn't had that option though coz I only have one laptop so I can't have any dedicated computer that won't connect to internet.

I don't know any cryptography but I'm thinking of shuffling the words rather than writing them down in order.
But how you will identify it if you are about to retrieve the wallet? You have to put some hint of doing this. This came to my mind but I'm very easy to forget and my memory doesn't works well now.

I think it would finally be safer to keep digital copies of it. Any suggestions?
Keeping to a laptop that isn't in use anymore and you are the only one that can access that laptop will make it secure. Keeping some back up with a flash drive that's dedicated to be a storage of your private keys only.

The "story" part gave me an idea. Maybe it can be encrypted into a poem that can be then memorized. Would be longer but seems easier to memorize than a random sequence of words. Thanks for the suggestion.
hero member
Activity: 3066
Merit: 629
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
April 16, 2018, 11:54:57 AM
#35
I don't know any cryptography but I'm thinking of shuffling the words rather than writing them down in order.
But how you will identify it if you are about to retrieve the wallet? You have to put some hint of doing this. This came to my mind but I'm very easy to forget and my memory doesn't works well now.

I think it would finally be safer to keep digital copies of it. Any suggestions?
Keeping to a laptop that isn't in use anymore and you are the only one that can access that laptop will make it secure. Keeping some back up with a flash drive that's dedicated to be a storage of your private keys only.
brand new
Activity: 0
Merit: 0
April 16, 2018, 10:43:01 AM
#34
I do something a little bit different than usual:

1) I write a "story" with a size of around one page that contents the 24 words. I keep this story in physical paper (2 or 3 copies hidden in different places)
2) Digitally and encrypted I have a simple "code" that allows me to know which of the words of the story are the correct.

So, if someone wants to steal de words, needs to have physical access to the paper with the story, locate and decrypt the digital file with the code. I see it hardly possible.


sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 257
April 16, 2018, 11:42:02 AM
#34
I use the old and traditional way by writing down private keys and seed words on papers. I keep 2 copies, one in the drawer of my home and the other in my parent house. Currently, my portfolio don’t worth millions. If one day, my holdings are worth millions of dollars, I will keep one copy in several safes in banks.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1293
There is trouble abrewing
April 16, 2018, 10:06:12 AM
#33
I suppose the malware can simply track whether you have wallet software installed and only then it would check the printer memory? I was reading an article yesterday. Apparently even the pass phrase is not save anymore since they can just take a screenshot of the screen.

yeah well if you have a keylogger they can simply notice and record every action you take such as keys you press on your keyboard, what you see on your screen, clicks of your mouse,... this is actually why air-gapped machines are used for generating your private keys and notion of cold storage exists https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Cold_storage
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
April 16, 2018, 10:00:09 AM
#32
Written in paper, hidden among many other papers. Even if someone knew that I have them there, it would take him long to find them. I have two copies in two different houses.
member
Activity: 215
Merit: 10
April 16, 2018, 09:59:52 AM
#31
Better keep it on a flash drive or memory card that no one could steal. The main thing do not use the online services like evernote and so on. There is always a chance that they will be hacked and stealing your data
full member
Activity: 634
Merit: 118
Bounty Hunter Indonesia
April 16, 2018, 09:57:20 AM
#30
OK, this would sound noobish but I'm interested to know how other people keep the mnemonic phrase generated by the wallet. I do have the wallets secured with a pw and backed up (still not enough to warrant a hardware wallet) but I also have the passphrases handwritten in paper (someone said be wary of printers) and stashed somewhere but I'm wondering if there's a better way to keep them.

I don't know any cryptography but I'm thinking of shuffling the words rather than writing them down in order. Like a 12x12 grid where I'd spread them out in certain patterns and then finished with filler words. Since it's no longer as straight-forward should anyone get their hands on it, I think it would finally be safer to keep digital copies of it. Any suggestions?
for safety, personally i save all important data in to flashdisk and im double save it to my computer. i use notepad to mnemonic phrase and for google authenticator im double too, save it to my phone and my computer too. cause i think this is a better way to save my private data
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