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Topic: How Libertarianism was created by big business lobbyists - page 7. (Read 23958 times)

hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Is Singapore an  AnCap society? If not, why are the evils of Singapore being blamed on AnCap principles? There is some sort of logical trick going on there. If two things share a subset of the same properties, then they will share all the same properties, or something.

Also its funny that the main criticism of AnCap (which I agree with) is that there is a threat from assholes who want to create governments... yea, exactly. Thats what we want to figure out how to stop.

That is one criticism which you guys have now admitted to. I wouldn't qualify it as necessarily the main criticism, nor the least criticism. There are plenty of other criticisms, all quite valid. Nor do I see how it's a funny criticism. If a society can't actually be the society it wishes to be due to either internal or external threat, then it's not very viable, is it? Nothing funny about it.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Is Singapore an  AnCap society? If not, why are the evils of Singapore being blamed on AnCap principles? There is some sort of logical trick going on there. If two things share a subset of the same properties, then they will share all the same properties, or something.

Also its funny that the main criticism of AnCap (which I agree with) is that there is a threat from assholes who want to create governments... yea, exactly. Thats what we want to figure out how to stop.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Some people wear tinfoil hats, I wear a silver foil hat. I am impervious to the cult of the majority or even the vocal minority.

Don't let that scare you away, I am a very nice guy, I just take people on a case by case basis.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Wait, if it's not perfect then why do you cling to it? I mean Statism has some good elements, Communism has some good elements, and libertarianism has some good elements.

Why can't we mix all three?


Statism and communism cannot tolerate libertarianism. The opposite is not true.

All Statist countries have capital thought crimes? I thought that was just mine. Anyways, even in my country almost all thoughts are permitted.


I mean enacted, of course. Though there is some evidence that your beliefs may single you out for special attention if some of the stuff going around is to believed (I tend not to take much on faith).
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
The list goes on and on. Your solutions to each of these are inadequate, and far from being ideal. They've all been covered. And you never offered a satisfactory solution to any of them.
I admit that AnCap is not perfect. If you want perfection, you're shit out of luck. It is, however, better than any other system presented.
Let me understand: your system, essentially untested, not deployed, and with many detractors, is better than any other system?
Yes.
I see nothing but confidence (over confidence) and opinion here. Enjoy your bubble of beliefs.
And you, yours.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003

Wait, if it's not perfect then why do you cling to it? I mean Statism has some good elements, Communism has some good elements, and libertarianism has some good elements.

Why can't we mix all three?


Statism and communism cannot tolerate libertarianism. The opposite is not true.

All Statist countries have capital thought crimes? I thought that was just mine. Anyways, even in my country almost all thoughts are permitted.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Wait, if it's not perfect then why do you cling to it? I mean Statism has some good elements, Communism has some good elements, and libertarianism has some good elements.

Why can't we mix all three?


Statism and communism cannot tolerate libertarianism. The opposite is not true.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
The list goes on and on. Your solutions to each of these are inadequate, and far from being ideal. They've all been covered. And you never offered a satisfactory solution to any of them.
I admit that AnCap is not perfect. If you want perfection, you're shit out of luck. It is, however, better than any other system presented.
Let me understand: your system, essentially untested, not deployed, and with many detractors, is better than any other system?
Yes.

I see nothing but confidence (over confidence) and opinion here. Enjoy your bubble of beliefs.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
The list goes on and on. Your solutions to each of these are inadequate, and far from being ideal. They've all been covered. And you never offered a satisfactory solution to any of them.
I admit that AnCap is not perfect. If you want perfection, you're shit out of luck. It is, however, better than any other system presented.
Let me understand: your system, essentially untested, not deployed, and with many detractors, is better than any other system?
Yes.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Nah, empathy for our oppressor is a beautiful expression of humanity.

Nope, it's a subtle form of spiritual suicide.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
But you never actually refuted anything I said. You only claimed my assertions couldn't be true. Please revoke any statements you made about my assertions as a whole, or actually refute them. You can start with my statements about climate change, then proceed to my statements about libertarian think tanks and their propaganda. I'm waiting, because I never heard any refutation from you, only statements from you that my assertions had no merit.

I wasn't talking about me. Others have weighed in. I was more interested in picking apart the mechanics and context of your "argument". Something I have no intention of rehashing.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
The list goes on and on. Your solutions to each of these are inadequate, and far from being ideal. They've all been covered. And you never offered a satisfactory solution to any of them.
I admit that AnCap is not perfect. If you want perfection, you're shit out of luck. It is, however, better than any other system presented. To paraphrase, "No one pretends that AnCap is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that AnCap is the worst form of societal organization except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Wait, if it's not perfect then why do you cling to it? I mean Statism has some good elements, Communism has some good elements, and libertarianism has some good elements.

Why can't we mix all three?

Why do we have to have one consistent ideology? Isn't that kind of limiting?

hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
The list goes on and on. Your solutions to each of these are inadequate, and far from being ideal. They've all been covered. And you never offered a satisfactory solution to any of them.
I admit that AnCap is not perfect. If you want perfection, you're shit out of luck. It is, however, better than any other system presented.

Let me understand: your system, essentially untested, not deployed, and with many detractors, is better than any other system?
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Great, then why do you try to derive morals from one set of first principles?

Who says I am? My morals are different from the ethical and legal systems I would like to see prevail.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Thus my earlier criticism still stands that these people are wrong in choosing not to think.

What makes you think that we haven't examined these concepts down to first principles? Granted, some might not have, but I know I have, and found it to be a logically consistent and viable philosophy.

I believe that anything logically consistent cannot possibly be moral.

I believe that there can be no absolute truths


(Yes, that's supposed to be ironic)

Great, then why do you try to derive morals from one set of first principles?

Whooooosh!
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003

Oh, so you admit that your "free societies" never last because control is wrested from them just when things are getting good. That's a flaw.

Yes, we fail to start shooting people when they start to oppress us. We're only human after all. It's a flaw that could be fixed.

Nah, empathy for our oppressor is a beautiful expression of humanity.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000

Not this again. It's like you saying sea levels don't rise when heat is absorbed by the ocean because I only asserted it, rather than write a 1,000 page introduction to physics.

I know enough physics to know that's true. I know enough politics to know your agenda behind stating it and where to start looking for the flaws.

However, if you enter a discussion with someone and they refute your claim, you need to back it up. If you're not willing to do so and you just dismiss the person, you should just admit you're here to assert, not discuss and then kindly leave.

But you never actually refuted anything I said. You only claimed my assertions couldn't be true. Please revoke any statements you made about my assertions as a whole, or actually refute them. You can start with my statements about climate change, then proceed to my statements about libertarian think tanks and their propaganda. I'm waiting, because I never heard any refutation from you, only statements from you that my assertions had no merit.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Fix it. I'm waiting for your solution, because if you can't maintain your society, it's worthless. And when you provide that solution, fix the other many many flaws.

That it's better than your shitty solution is good enough for me. Perfection is the enemy of the good.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
The list goes on and on. Your solutions to each of these are inadequate, and far from being ideal. They've all been covered. And you never offered a satisfactory solution to any of them.
I admit that AnCap is not perfect. If you want perfection, you're shit out of luck. It is, however, better than any other system presented. To paraphrase, "No one pretends that AnCap is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that AnCap is the worst form of societal organization except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
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