I didn't pay capital gains tax on bitcoin sales to IRS today - page 3.

dscotese

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I prefer evolution to revolution.

Quote from: 7Priest7 on June 16, 2014, 02:12:38 AM

Quote from: boumalo on June 15, 2014, 03:15:28 AM

The burden of proof is in the hands of the accuse; it is commun that tax payers end up having huge fines when they didn't cheat or broke the law

The fact that it was not intentional may be considered attenuating circumstance in some cases but it will not save you of paying some fines

In order for them to initiate a audit they must have some evidence that fraud occurred.

The "evidence" can come from MANY sources, but there must be a discrepancy in your taxes.
They will not simply audit random people who may or may not have bought/sold bitcoins. If you were intelligent enough to trade your bitcoins in a pseudo-anonymous format, they will never know.

That all said, if they have some evidence you have been dealing in bitcoins that you never reported, you will likely be audited, and you will have to prove that you have never traded bitcoins.

This is not true. If you avoid exercising any federal privilege in your bitcoin dealings, then you have no obligation to report them. An analysis of Title 26 demonstrating this pretty clearly (and proving it with evidence from the IRS and Treasury) is available at losthorizons.com.

boumalo

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Activity: 1918

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Quote from: 7Priest7 on June 16, 2014, 02:12:38 AM

Quote from: boumalo on June 15, 2014, 03:15:28 AM

The burden of proof is in the hands of the accuse; it is commun that tax payers end up having huge fines when they didn't cheat or broke the law

The fact that it was not intentional may be considered attenuating circumstance in some cases but it will not save you of paying some fines

In order for them to initiate a audit they must have some evidence that fraud occurred.

The "evidence" can come from MANY sources, but there must be a discrepancy in your taxes.
They will not simply audit random people who may or may not have bought/sold bitcoins. If you were intelligent enough to trade your bitcoins in a pseudo-anonymous format, they will never know.

That all said, if they have some evidence you have been dealing in bitcoins that you never reported, you will likely be audited, and you will have to prove that you have never traded bitcoins.

I didn't say they will randomly try to punish you but if friends/neighbourgs think you are avoiding taxes and you make money through Bitcoin you may gave you up and they may decide to audit you then you will need to prove your innocence or you may already be audited and they find Bitcoin transactions to your bank account ect.

Don't do anything illegal and keep records should be enough

7Priest7

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Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: boumalo on June 15, 2014, 03:15:28 AM

The burden of proof is in the hands of the accuse; it is commun that tax payers end up having huge fines when they didn't cheat or broke the law

The fact that it was not intentional may be considered attenuating circumstance in some cases but it will not save you of paying some fines

In order for them to initiate a audit they must have some evidence that fraud occurred.

The "evidence" can come from MANY sources, but there must be a discrepancy in your taxes.
They will not simply audit random people who may or may not have bought/sold bitcoins. If you were intelligent enough to trade your bitcoins in a pseudo-anonymous format, they will never know.

That all said, if they have some evidence you have been dealing in bitcoins that you never reported, you will likely be audited, and you will have to prove that you have never traded bitcoins.

Harley997

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: boumalo on June 15, 2014, 03:15:28 AM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 15, 2014, 01:53:45 AM

Quote from: silverfuture on June 14, 2014, 09:02:06 PM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 10, 2014, 10:33:12 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 15, 2014, 08:17:08 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on April 15, 2014, 07:32:21 PM

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

They would still have to prove that I owe them something.

The burden is on the taxpayer (you) to prove that your tax return is accurate.

if the IRS feels like your standard of living is significantly above your income/assets then they will audit you and they have great investigative ability.

I wonder if they accept the "computer crashed and lost all documents" argument from their victims?

http://freebeacon.com/issues/irs-lost-lerner-emails-due-to-computer-crash-agency-says/

If you cannot produce documents then they can pretty much accuse you (and win) of pretty much everything.

LOL on the Louis Lenner link.

The burden of proof is in the hands of the accuse; it is commun that tax payers end up having huge fines when they didn't cheat or broke the law

The fact that it was not intentional may be considered attenuating circumstance in some cases but it will not save you of paying some fines

This is a very sad fact about our current set of tax laws.

dscotese

sr. member

Activity: 444

Merit: 250

I prefer evolution to revolution.

USC 26 6702(c) States:

Quote

(c) Listing of frivolous positions
The Secretary shall prescribe (and periodically revise) a list of positions which the Secretary has identified as being frivolous for purposes of this subsection. The Secretary shall not include in such list any position that the Secretary determines meets the requirement of section 6662 (d)(2)(B)(ii)(II).

Here is the "list of positions which the Secretary has identified as being frivolous," but there is one position that is missing. It's my position, and if they would like to add it to the list, then I will have to admit that I no longer have a legal basis for refusing to support their criminal operations. Here is my position, which I think would go under section B ("The Meaning of Income: Taxable Income and Gross Income"):

Quote

"Taxable Income" can only mean what a person gets by exercising some kind of federal privilege, so those who exercise no such privilege are not liable for the tax.

This was copied from my blog entry on the same subject.

boumalo

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Activity: 1918

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Quote from: Harley997 on June 15, 2014, 01:53:45 AM

Quote from: silverfuture on June 14, 2014, 09:02:06 PM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 10, 2014, 10:33:12 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 15, 2014, 08:17:08 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on April 15, 2014, 07:32:21 PM

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

They would still have to prove that I owe them something.

The burden is on the taxpayer (you) to prove that your tax return is accurate.

if the IRS feels like your standard of living is significantly above your income/assets then they will audit you and they have great investigative ability.

I wonder if they accept the "computer crashed and lost all documents" argument from their victims?

http://freebeacon.com/issues/irs-lost-lerner-emails-due-to-computer-crash-agency-says/

If you cannot produce documents then they can pretty much accuse you (and win) of pretty much everything.

LOL on the Louis Lenner link.

The burden of proof is in the hands of the accuse; it is commun that tax payers end up having huge fines when they didn't cheat or broke the law

The fact that it was not intentional may be considered attenuating circumstance in some cases but it will not save you of paying some fines

Harley997

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: silverfuture on June 14, 2014, 09:02:06 PM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 10, 2014, 10:33:12 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 15, 2014, 08:17:08 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on April 15, 2014, 07:32:21 PM

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

They would still have to prove that I owe them something.

The burden is on the taxpayer (you) to prove that your tax return is accurate.

if the IRS feels like your standard of living is significantly above your income/assets then they will audit you and they have great investigative ability.

I wonder if they accept the "computer crashed and lost all documents" argument from their victims?

http://freebeacon.com/issues/irs-lost-lerner-emails-due-to-computer-crash-agency-says/

If you cannot produce documents then they can pretty much accuse you (and win) of pretty much everything.

LOL on the Louis Lenner link.

silverfuture

legendary

Activity: 947

Merit: 1008

central banking = outdated protocol

Quote from: Harley997 on June 10, 2014, 10:33:12 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 15, 2014, 08:17:08 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on April 15, 2014, 07:32:21 PM

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

They would still have to prove that I owe them something.

The burden is on the taxpayer (you) to prove that your tax return is accurate.

if the IRS feels like your standard of living is significantly above your income/assets then they will audit you and they have great investigative ability.

I wonder if they accept the "computer crashed and lost all documents" argument from their victims?

http://freebeacon.com/issues/irs-lost-lerner-emails-due-to-computer-crash-agency-says/

LostDutchman

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

You don't have to break the law to pay little or no tax.

Would you like to know more?

Harley997

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: dscotese on June 07, 2014, 12:35:09 AM

Quote from: redwhitenblue on June 06, 2014, 11:18:12 PM

If you sold BTC today then you would not own capital gains taxes on these sales until "tax time" next year.

It is highly advisably to not openly break the law. The IRS is a very powerful agency.

It is difficult to avoid breaking the law if you don't know the law. Most people who understand the law (Title 26, that is) well enough to avoid breaking it also avoid engaging in taxable activities so that they don't owe any income tax and can get back everything that was withheld from their paychecks (if any). Most people who know the law that well have done some research. Many of them found Peter E. Hendrickson's site and have been able to find their way through the bullshit, which is deep and thick because, as you point out, "The IRS is a very powerful agency."

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse to breaking it.

dscotese

sr. member

Activity: 444

Merit: 250

I prefer evolution to revolution.

Quote from: boumalo on June 13, 2014, 11:11:42 AM

Quote from: makiyo_love on June 13, 2014, 10:55:18 AM

According to Charlie Shrem, several govt agencies are monitoring here.

Of course they are what do you expect?

They are monitoring automatically and with agents; you can consider it is their job, it depends how they monitor and what is the purpose

Dear federal agents,

Go check out Pete Hendrickson's book. I know your fellow bureaucrats have said it's full of lies, but have they identified any of those lies? They pretended to. The book says that "wages" is a legal term that does NOT describe what most people get for their work, and therefore the tax on "wages" does not apply to what most people get for their work. Your fellow bureaucrats pretended this was a lie by altering it to: "Wages are not taxable."

Now, take a few minutes to figure out why they would alter what the book says in order to reverse its meaning and then call it a lie. If it interests you enough, then go read the rest of the book for yourself so you can uncover all the other lies your fellow bureaucrats have invented to try to maintain the gravy train you're all riding.

And watch out, because the conclusion kind of sucks for you: As a federal agent, you are in the small group of people who actually do owe the tax, because what you get for working DOES fit the legal definition of "wages". But you can always quit!

boumalo

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1018

Quote from: makiyo_love on June 13, 2014, 10:55:18 AM

According to Charlie Shrem, several govt agencies are monitoring here.

Of course they are what do you expect?

They are monitoring automatically and with agents; you can consider it is their job, it depends how they monitor and what is the purpose

Harley997

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: boumalo on June 11, 2014, 02:06:57 PM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 10, 2014, 10:33:12 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 15, 2014, 08:17:08 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on April 15, 2014, 07:32:21 PM

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

They would still have to prove that I owe them something.

The burden is on the taxpayer (you) to prove that your tax return is accurate.

if the IRS feels like your standard of living is significantly above your income/assets then they will audit you and they have great investigative ability.

It is why you don't want to be audited and you want to keep as much documents and proofs possible in case you are audited

But the OP is saying that he is not paying taxes on his gains on bitcoin.

makiyo_love

newbie

Activity: 13

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According to Charlie Shrem, several govt agencies are monitoring here.

dscotese

sr. member

Activity: 444

Merit: 250

I prefer evolution to revolution.

Quote from: boumalo on June 11, 2014, 02:06:57 PM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 10, 2014, 10:33:12 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 15, 2014, 08:17:08 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on April 15, 2014, 07:32:21 PM

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

They would still have to prove that I owe them something.

The burden is on the taxpayer (you) to prove that your tax return is accurate.

if the IRS feels like your standard of living is significantly above your income/assets then they will audit you and they have great investigative ability.

It is why you don't want to be audited and you want to keep as much documents and proofs possible in case you are audited

This is all assuming you exercise federal privilege of some kind in order to earn money. It's called an "excise" tax for a good reason.

boumalo

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1018

Quote from: Harley997 on June 10, 2014, 10:33:12 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 15, 2014, 08:17:08 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on April 15, 2014, 07:32:21 PM

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

They would still have to prove that I owe them something.

The burden is on the taxpayer (you) to prove that your tax return is accurate.

if the IRS feels like your standard of living is significantly above your income/assets then they will audit you and they have great investigative ability.

It is why you don't want to be audited and you want to keep as much documents and proofs possible in case you are audited

ajareselde

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Activity: 1722

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Satoshi is rolling in his grave. #bitcoin

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 15, 2014, 07:00:48 PM

The last couple months there have been a lot of posts concerning the IRS ruling that bitcoins are to be treated as property and that it was required to pay a capital gains tax on the sale of bitcoins. Some people even posted that "bitcoin is doomed" because of the ruling.

To prove just how silly it is for people to worry about this, I created this thread to call out the IRS to prove what I owe in capital gains due to bitcoin sales.

So if there are any IRS employees trolling this thread, you're welcome to pour over the blockchain and tell me what I owe you. Wink

there is a saying in my country that you should realy listed, "dont go poking around with someone with bigger horns"

Harley997

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on April 15, 2014, 08:17:08 PM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on April 15, 2014, 07:32:21 PM

is it really smart poking the buffalo with a stick?
i hope you are at least posting this behind TOR and if not that the tax man won't subpoena the forum to disclose your ip to make an example.

They would still have to prove that I owe them something.

The burden is on the taxpayer (you) to prove that your tax return is accurate.

if the IRS feels like your standard of living is significantly above your income/assets then they will audit you and they have great investigative ability.

Justin00

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Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice

lol keep on poking the bear mate.
infact why not post up your real details if you are so sure nothing will happen.

actually please don't. it will only lead to bad media, and you taking a hefty fine

dscotese

sr. member

Activity: 444

Merit: 250

I prefer evolution to revolution.

Quote from: redwhitenblue on June 06, 2014, 11:18:12 PM

If you sold BTC today then you would not own capital gains taxes on these sales until "tax time" next year.

It is highly advisably to not openly break the law. The IRS is a very powerful agency.

It is difficult to avoid breaking the law if you don't know the law. Most people who understand the law (Title 26, that is) well enough to avoid breaking it also avoid engaging in taxable activities so that they don't owe any income tax and can get back everything that was withheld from their paychecks (if any). Most people who know the law that well have done some research. Many of them found Peter E. Hendrickson's site and have been able to find their way through the bullshit, which is deep and thick because, as you point out, "The IRS is a very powerful agency."

Topic: I didn't pay capital gains tax on bitcoin sales to IRS today - page 3. (Read 24100 times)