I have made a 25% return this week trading *against* the pirate - page 4.

boonies4u

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Quote from: miscreanity on August 01, 2012, 03:29:53 PM

Quote from: notme on August 01, 2012, 01:09:03 PM

Creating the market is different from cornering the market on an existing good.

And the potential market for Bitcoin is as big as that of the major fiat currencies. That's quite a market that can be created, or more accurately - replaced.

Given that only 21 million coins will ever exist... If the bitcoin economy were to grow, the path to becoming a giant may not be to corner some market, but at whatever you do... acrue bitcoins over time.

It would only take around 2 million USD to purchase 1% of all the bitcoins that will exist. Of course if you tried to buy these all at once, the market would reflect your interest.

The idea that Pirate is selling coins to people wishing to acquire them without reflecting the market is certainly feasible.

miscreanity

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Quote from: notme on August 01, 2012, 01:09:03 PM

Creating the market is different from cornering the market on an existing good.

And the potential market for Bitcoin is as big as that of the major fiat currencies. That's quite a market that can be created, or more accurately - replaced.

notme

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: JoelKatz on August 01, 2012, 07:50:38 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 01, 2012, 07:02:16 AM

If you were an early oil baron what would you pay to corner the oil market by buying saudi arabia ? 7% seems cheap

It almost always costs more to corner the market than you can possibly make after having cornered it. If you try to corner the market on something people don't need, nobody will care that you've cornered it, you still won't make any money. And if you try to corner the market on something people need, you'll wind up having to pay more and more over fair market value to corner the market, and people still won't pay more for something than it's worth to them.

Such as text messages and mobile data plans.

Creating the market is different from cornering the market on an existing good.

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 01, 2012, 07:02:16 AM

If you were an early oil baron what would you pay to corner the oil market by buying saudi arabia ? 7% seems cheap

It almost always costs more to corner the market than you can possibly make after having cornered it. If you try to corner the market on something people don't need, nobody will care that you've cornered it, you still won't make any money. And if you try to corner the market on something people need, you'll wind up having to pay more and more over fair market value to corner the market, and people still won't pay more for something than it's worth to them.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

If you were an early oil baron what would you pay to corner the oil market by buying saudi arabia ? 7% seems cheap

dust

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Quote from: mp420 on August 01, 2012, 06:22:03 AM

One thing I realized today is that part of the recent rally in BTC price might be ponzi victim wannabes purchasing bitcoins in order to "invest" in Pirate's scheme (either directly or through some passthrough services). [snip]

I also suspect this. No one is offering 7% a week on USD deposits.

mp420

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One thing I realized today is that part of the recent rally in BTC price might be ponzi victim wannabes purchasing bitcoins in order to "invest" in Pirate's scheme (either directly or through some passthrough services).

Historically many Ponzi schemes have gotten extremely big even though everyone should have known them for what they are from the very start. Pirate's scheme does seem to have enough momentum to cause an unprecedented bubble in Bitcoin price.

Do not take this as investment advice. I'm just thinking aloud.

miscreanity

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It seems nobody is paying attention to the fact that Pirate has other operations that can supply BTC for BTCS&T, not to mention the select few whom have mentioned the potential for arbitrage across exchanges. There's also no way of knowing how much activity occurs off exchange.

Most seem to think the intention is simply to accumulate as much as possible, at all costs. What if the plan is to maintain stability so the entire Bitcoin economy can grow, appealing to businesses and those who would be frightened off by events like the 2011 bubble?

ineededausername

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Quote from: notme on July 31, 2012, 02:50:15 PM

Quote from: ineededausername on July 31, 2012, 01:56:31 PM

bitpay's little game is going up in flames as we rocket up to $10 Grin

Since their main business is selling btc for usd I think they'll be okay Wink

.

of course they'll be ok, but they're missing out on this. I bet Steve sold at $9 already.

notme

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Quote from: ineededausername on July 31, 2012, 01:56:31 PM

bitpay's little game is going up in flames as we rocket up to $10 Grin

Since their main business is selling btc for usd I think they'll be okay Wink

.

ineededausername

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bitpay's little game is going up in flames as we rocket up to $10 Grin

ArticMine

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Quote from: Ente on July 31, 2012, 06:46:56 AM

Quote from: ArticMine on July 27, 2012, 08:50:30 PM

In fairness to pirateat40 if a currency in inflating at more than 7% per week (compounded) as was the case for Bitcoin with respect to the USD between July 2011 and December 2011 paying 7% a week in interest is very close to the proper rate and not a ponzi. One needs to consider the real rate of return not the nominal rate of return when considering where something is a ponzi or not. The trouble here is that that an interest rate appropriate for 7% inflation per week does not work for deflation with a significant chance of hyper deflation. By the way the start of https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.1480 is so close to the recent bottom of the market in the 2 USD range that it makes it look like pirateat40 is a very good contrarian indicator on the BTC / USD price.

But but but..
He's supposed to pay the invested Bitcoins plus 7% in Bitcoins!
Its not like he is borrowing USD, secretly buying into Bitcoin, and paying back USD with 7% USD on top..

Ente

If he did the exact reverse between July 2011 and December 2011 it would have worked.
Borrow BTC
Sell BTC for USD
Watch BTC drop in value with respect to USD at a rate greater than 7% compounded weekly
Buy back BTC
Pay back investors principal plus interest in BTC
Keep profit in USD (The greater the drop in the BTC / USD price over the 7% interest compounded weekly)

Ente

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Quote from: ArticMine on July 27, 2012, 08:50:30 PM

In fairness to pirateat40 if a currency in inflating at more than 7% per week (compounded) as was the case for Bitcoin with respect to the USD between July 2011 and December 2011 paying 7% a week in interest is very close to the proper rate and not a ponzi. One needs to consider the real rate of return not the nominal rate of return when considering where something is a ponzi or not. The trouble here is that that an interest rate appropriate for 7% inflation per week does not work for deflation with a significant chance of hyper deflation. By the way the start of https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.1480 is so close to the recent bottom of the market in the 2 USD range that it makes it look like pirateat40 is a very good contrarian indicator on the BTC / USD price.

But but but..
He's supposed to pay the invested Bitcoins plus 7% in Bitcoins!
Its not like he is borrowing USD, secretly buying into Bitcoin, and paying back USD with 7% USD on top..

Ente

ArticMine

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Quote from: Micon on July 27, 2012, 07:13:43 PM

glad to see the bitpay guys can spot this giant ponzi too. They seemed sharp when I met them at CES.

1) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.1480 why the hell is this locked?

2) I am keeping (wow there a ton of them) a list of obvious BTC ponzis & will expand to other lending-based or high-yield scams. --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94900.0 to hopefully convince these kids to save their BTC and hopefully stop these run away train ponzi's that may have over $1M USD in them... gonna be a huge story when it goes boom... which ain't long at these levels.

In fairness to pirateat40 if a currency in inflating at more than 7% per week (compounded) as was the case for Bitcoin with respect to the USD between July 2011 and December 2011 paying 7% a week in interest is very close to the proper rate and not a ponzi. One needs to consider the real rate of return not the nominal rate of return when considering where something is a ponzi or not. The trouble here is that that an interest rate appropriate for 7% inflation per week does not work for deflation with a significant chance of hyper deflation. By the way the start of https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.1480 is so close to the recent bottom of the market in the 2 USD range that it makes it look like pirateat40 is a very good contrarian indicator on the BTC / USD price.

Micon

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glad to see the bitpay guys can spot this giant ponzi too. They seemed sharp when I met them at CES.

1) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.1480 why the hell is this locked?

2) I am keeping (wow there a ton of them) a list of obvious BTC ponzis & will expand to other lending-based or high-yield scams. --> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bryan-micons-list-of-btc-ponzi-schemes-that-should-not-be-listed-as-lending-94900 to hopefully convince these kids to save their BTC and hopefully stop these run away train ponzi's that may have over $1M USD in them... gonna be a huge story when it goes boom... which ain't long at these levels.

AndyRossy

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Just made a new bet, for those who are willing to bet for/against the pirate short term - in the wake of these new-trading strats.

Bitcoin Savings and Trust will default before the end of September 2012

smoothie

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Quote from: BitPay Business Solutions on July 25, 2012, 05:45:17 PM

There's nothing bear market about this chart. Any pullback to around 8 is bought aggressively.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg90ztgSza1gSMAzm1g20za2gSMAzm2g50zi1gVolzi2gMACDzi3gRSI

Also, Mt. Gox does not support stop orders. nor do they allow any leverage. So buying high in hopes of triggering others to buy higher, or selling low in hopes of triggering others to sell lower, just does not work in this market. The act of "stop hunting" is also illegal in regulated markets, but it does occur regularly.

Anyone issuing a market-buy or market-sell order for 30,000 BTC will guarantee themselves the worst possible price on that trade. That's ok, because you can trade against those people and profit quite handsomely.

The biggest buy I made was 3200 BTC below 8 the first time pirate pushed it down there, and bragged that he had the 8.00 ask wall. I sold all of those coins over $9.00 within 24 hours.

And rightfully so. Anything that got sold at $9.50+ came back down.

VelvetLeaf

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Quote from: AndyRossy on July 26, 2012, 11:52:46 AM

Very big wall at 8.66?

Yes, looks like pirate is already tired of bitpal's game.
We'll see who's the winner tomorrow.

AndyRossy

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Very big wall at 8.66?

Vandroiy

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Quote from: ineededausername on July 25, 2012, 06:37:33 PM

Oops! Anyone who sold at $9 expecting to buy back at $8 now has to buy back at $8.8.

And... that's still a profit. Even more so if they bought back at 8.4 or who-knows-where.

Topic: I have made a 25% return this week trading *against* the pirate - page 4. (Read 12653 times)

Topic: I have made a 25% return this week trading against the pirate - page 4. (Read 12653 times)