If the dollar/fiat was worthless! - page 5.

Ozero

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Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

If the United States as a state continues to exist, then its national currency - the dollar cannot fall to zero, that is, it will absolutely depreciate. The United States has huge material reserves, a huge economy and this will not allow the dollar to depreciate. But if the dollar for some reason falls sharply in price, this should not significantly affect bitcoin. Because bitcoin is not tied to the dollar in any way. It’s just that bitcoin will practically cease to be valued in dollars and will be valued in other successful fiats - euros, pounds, yens and even yuans.

inthelongrun

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In terms of a big disaster like a nuclear war or a big calamity that destroyed the internet and electricity, things will obviously return back to the old days like the barter exchange. If you want a sack of potatoes and there are no more governments running effectively and there is destruction everywhere, I will not accept your dollar for sure. You need to pay for the goods with something valuable as well, maybe gold or other goods like chickens as you mentioned. I am not sure how bitcoin survives without internet. But I have a feeling that soon, all parts of the earth will be covered by internet even during huge disasters, the use of satellites will be further enhanced. Bitcoin will become more valuable by then even if the US dollar becomes worthless or with very low value.

pooya87

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It is unprecedented for fiat to go down to zero even with the nonstop printing of it. The value of it will crash hard when they print it a lot and also in case of dollar when the world abandons it and all the supply goes back to United States itself but it will cause huge hyperinflation not drop down to zero.

The effects of that on bitcoin is only a massive price rise because bitcoin's value doesn't magically change because of value of dollar ergo as dollar value dumps if bitcoin value remains the same it has to massively rise in "price".
Of course the market is so much more complicated than that. For example when the price rise starts it also attracts more investors hence increasing the value and price a lot more.

P.S. keep in mind that there is a difference between price and value. Price is measured against fiat and has different ups and downs in different fiat currencies depending on the value of that fiat. For example when Bolivar dumped, bitcoin went up against it while remaining the same against dollar. When dollar dumps it will be the same, bitcoin will go up against dollar while remaining the same against other fiat currencies (of course as I said it could attract more investors which leads to its rise against those too).

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Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on.

It seems to me that you have no idea about economic issues. Coins almost never go to 0, they lose value until they reach almost 0 compared to other currencies, but they don't go to 0 overnight. And in this case, the dollar even less.

When enough time passes, any fiat currency becomes worth almost 0 relative to its original purchasing power.

Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

They would cost much more than they do now in numerical terms, just look at the examples of hyperinflation in Zimbabwe or the Weimar Republic, but the issue is not about price increases but about the devaluation of the purchasing power of the currency.

You just worry about protecting yourself against currency devaluation. Owning bitcoin is a good way to protect yourself, but not the only way, and you should stop worrying so much about hypothetical scenarios.

adzino

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Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

Let assume an event where the dollar or other fiat currencies goes completely bust. Very unlikely to happen and if that does happen, we will see a global economy collapse, which we really don't want right now...
But we are assuming if that might happen, people might actually turn to Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies since they're not tied to any government or central bank and completely decentralized. In that case bitcoin and most of the crypto currencies might become more valuable since there are limited supply. For the sack of potatoes you want to buy, you probably have to determine how many potatoes you will get for 1 satoshi (the market will eventually decide based on demand and supply).

Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

any ideas on how bitcoin could be independent of the dollar, or other fiat?

It won't happen now. Not anytime soon. If you want bitcoin to be independent of fiat currency, you have to convince people to use Bitcoin only for making all kind of transactions. But most people only hold bitcoin to make profit and sell it for fiar currency.

Swordsoffreedom

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When USD goes to 0 means there will be another country's currency to replace it, and it will be a new measure of value in the world, bitcoin value will be measured in the new currency. There will never be a total collapse of the fiat system but a mutual replacement, and I believe things are beginning. If the USD collapses, I wouldn't be surprised that the Chinese yuan will become the new world currency. Many countries are starting to use their own currencies to transact with each other instead of USD, and the yuan is the most used alternative currency.

Nwada001

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Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

Well, let's just say that imagination ends with imagination. If not, there is no way a country's currency can probably turn to zero value; the only time this can be possible is if the country is no longer in existence. If, however, the currency is still being used for day-to-day trade, there is probably a value attached to it.

If the dollar happens to be devalued and nothing is attached to it again but other currencies still exist and value is being added to them, it will only affect the BTC price for some time and not the value. BTC value is being placed upon the high or low demand for it. So without the dollar, BTC can easily adjust to other globally accepted currencies and pair with them. BTC is not tied to the dollar, and as such, the fall of the dollar can't be the downfall of Bitcoin.

STT

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Quote

Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless?

More likely the opposite would be true because so many people store value in Dollar. If a situation becomes obvious it will likely move business done in Dollar towards alternatives. My own take is the majority of FIAT currency trade will remain in FIAT and just move to another large government backed entity such as EURO or possibly China backed currency some believe that due to its size. Its also true that more people would likely use BTC and it doesnt take alot of people to make a large difference in supply and demand.

You can answer your own question by asking the price of your house in money, in bags of coal and in packets of sweets. The number probably will rise as the exchangeable item becomes less worth but the value of your house is not determined by Dollar or anything else, its main worth is via its usage. Same for BTC, it is valued from usage but we do also have alot of speculative trades on top but still it will be fine in turmoil.

blockman

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The conversion is happening in dollar but it's possible that there will be other means of conversion that it would be like in Euro which it does really have. But regardless of that, bitcoin = bitcoin and that's not going to change.
Before being worried that dollar will go to zero, I am sure that there will be other means that will be proposed to the economy on how this problem is going to be addressed like bitcoin/cny is going to be the standard then since everyone is talking about the economic surge for China. As of now, everything is going to be all about speculations and no matter what happens, bitcoin's value is never going to be gone together with the collapse of the USD or any other currencies.

darkangel11

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Many people don't care about the dollar price. I haven't owned any dollars in a long time. Last time I held a dollar bill in my hand was in 2012. Dollar's acceptance is also greatly overestimated. Even in the EU you'll going to have a hard time finding someone to sell you stuff for USD. You'd have to use a currency exchange, or overpay by a lot to get someone to trade with you.
What if it goes to 0? Other fiat currencies will explode because for it to go to 0 people would have to be selling it and the gold reserves of the US and its economy would have to be insufficient to pump the price back up. I don't think it's ever going to happen. They FED will see it coming and make a tactical retreat by changing a name of the currency and relaunching it as the digital dollar or something similar. They're going to make the reset without the people knowing that it's the reset. Their whole job is to protect the currency, even if it means sending the military to steal some gold and secure an oil deal, the way they did in Iraq.

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Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

I don't know what apocalyptic end your predicting but, do you really wish for this or do you see it by any chance happening?
Technology have come to be and not even a world war III is going to knock it out of existence. Instead, we might experience quite the opposite as in war times, its about who can come up with the best inventions to tackle the times and we wold have the rich try to make the most of the opportunity by providing a from space network.

Dollar is just some exchange rate, a scale fir measurement as a standard and nothing more. Should dollar fade away which is almost not possible, there would be another to replace it. So long as we've got Internet and could access it, it doesn't matter of the dollar fails.

kickea

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Quote from: serjent05 on April 06, 2023, 07:02:59 PM

Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

If the dollar goes to 0 then Bitcoin will still be 1B = 1B. Bitcoin valuation in terms of fiat currency will be interpreted in another currency if the valuation of Bitcoin in dollar is somehow impossible (dollar getting 0 valuation). Bitcoin fiat valuation or equivalent can be presented in pounds, yuan, euro or any other fiat currency. After all dollar is just another currency of thousand that is existing in the global market.

Great answer, but what if all other fiat currency went to shit aswell?

serjent05

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Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

If the dollar goes to 0 then Bitcoin will still be 1B = 1B. Bitcoin valuation in terms of fiat currency will be interpreted in another currency if the valuation of Bitcoin in dollar is somehow impossible (dollar getting 0 valuation). Bitcoin fiat valuation or equivalent can be presented in pounds, yuan, euro or any other fiat currency. After all dollar is just another currency of thousand that is existing in the global market.

kickea

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Quote from: ololajulo on April 06, 2023, 06:50:06 PM

Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

Let's not rush to judgment about news of dedollarization. There are many things that don't look good now, but I wouldn't rule out anything from the USA, everything seems to be political and the USA looks very calm. Although it may look like they are playing it safe, the dollar is still doing well despite all of the news.

Yes of course. This is just a hypotethical exercise. I guess I have to edit the subject Cheesy

kickea

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Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on April 06, 2023, 06:45:17 PM

Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

Bitcoin is not Dollar and the problem with dollar Lossing value is because it's being excessively printed, where are Bitcoin has a limited supply which can never be increased.

Yes, but the printed dollar does not go straight into bitcoin. Which means that the value of bitcoin also decreases as the value of dollar increases.

ololajulo

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Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

Let's not rush to judgment about news of dedollarization. There are many things that don't look good now, but I wouldn't rule out anything from the USA, everything seems to be political and the USA looks very calm. Although it may look like they are playing it safe, the dollar is still doing well despite all of the news. Although bitcoin is valued in dollar and traded in many more currencies, the impact of fiat market can be managed

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: kickea on April 06, 2023, 06:42:00 PM

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

Bitcoin is not Dollar and the problem with dollar lossing value is because it's being excessively printed, where Bitcoin has a limited supply which can never be increased.
The value of bitcoin will increase over time as long as more people continue to adopt it. Apart from the dollar, the devaluation of fiat currency in most countries is so bad that even a thousand dollars cannot be used to purchase many things on the market.

kickea

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What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?

I see a lot of good ideas here.

The reason for this thread is to explore if there are some other ways to value bitcoin. Like many of you said, it would probably just hop over to the next largest currency. But do we want the bitcoin to allways be dependant on another currency and its inflatory politics? Many of you also said that the dollar will never go to 0 and there is no reason to worry about this. But every currency in the world is loosing value everyday. Therefore bitcoin is also loosing its value. it may be a stupid question, but would it not be better to have another way to value bitcoin so you could allways buy 1 sack of potatoes for 1 satoshi for exampel?

Topic: If the dollar/fiat was worthless! - page 5. (Read 558 times)