For a bunch of smart people everyone here really jumps to conclusions based on what? 6 lines mtgox could have typed? As far as I am concerned until someone actually produces legitimate evidence, all toasty is guilty of is being in the right place at the right time....
Topic: I'm Kevin, here's my side. - page 13. (Read 258515 times)
The response to this whole affair is outrageous. Involvement by a group of thugs who are presently considering legislation to ban the use of a peaceful and volunteer form of exchange? Desecration of individual rights and contractual terms for the sake of the public bitcoin community? The public be damned! Kevin has every right to every single bitcoin he earned in a legitimate trade, under contract terms that stipulated Mt. Gox in NO WAY a central authority with the power to reverse trades. Mt. Gox has provided no remotely convincing evidence to connect Kevin with the hacker, a hacker who could very well be affiliated with Mt. Gox. On top of that, the evidence and arguments put forth by Mt. Gox are extremely implausible. Who the hell would leave 500,000 bitcoins ON MT. GOX, and keep it so poorly secured? Or perhaps...and far more plausibly, it was well secured --- but Mt. Gox had secret affiliation and access.
There are dozens of avenues by which Mt. Gox could plausibly engage in fraudulent behavior to the ends we've seen in these recent revelations. There are zero thus far proposed that could at all plausibly connect Kevin with the perpetrator.
Kevin has every right to his coins, and Mt. Gox must release all necessary information to shed as much light on this situation as possible, if it hopes to ever connect Kevin with anything malicious, or if it hopes to regain any legitimacy in the eyes of the bitcoin community. Involvement by thugs with guns is not a solution. It merely provides illusory legitimacy to Mt. Gox's desired action --- grand theft of Kevin's property.
The outrageous response witnessed here on these forums is tangible evidence as to the inseparability of bitcoin and anarchocapitalism. I propose that all those who adhere to the principles of voluntary interaction identify themselves on the forum, and engage only with those who share these principles. All statists spell disaster for Bitcoin.
There are dozens of avenues by which Mt. Gox could plausibly engage in fraudulent behavior to the ends we've seen in these recent revelations. There are zero thus far proposed that could at all plausibly connect Kevin with the perpetrator.
Kevin has every right to his coins, and Mt. Gox must release all necessary information to shed as much light on this situation as possible, if it hopes to ever connect Kevin with anything malicious, or if it hopes to regain any legitimacy in the eyes of the bitcoin community. Involvement by thugs with guns is not a solution. It merely provides illusory legitimacy to Mt. Gox's desired action --- grand theft of Kevin's property.
The outrageous response witnessed here on these forums is tangible evidence as to the inseparability of bitcoin and anarchocapitalism. I propose that all those who adhere to the principles of voluntary interaction identify themselves on the forum, and engage only with those who share these principles. All statists spell disaster for Bitcoin.
This MUST be YOU, correct?
DragonData.com - Welcome to Your.org
Domain Name: DRAGONDATA.COM Registrant: N/A Kevin Day ( ) P.O. Box 326. Round Lake Beach Illinois,60073. US Tel. +1.3126281200. Creation Date: 03-Apr-1997 ...
whois.domaintools.com/dragondata.com
►
So you are a 100% confirmed Security IT and Hacker.
I knew you were smart, but apparently not smart enough to outsmart everyone else.
We'll be awaiting your response and explanation. And it had better be good!
DragonData.com - Welcome to Your.org
Domain Name: DRAGONDATA.COM Registrant: N/A Kevin Day ( ) P.O. Box 326. Round Lake Beach Illinois,60073. US Tel. +1.3126281200. Creation Date: 03-Apr-1997 ...
whois.domaintools.com/dragondata.com
►
So you are a 100% confirmed Security IT and Hacker.
I knew you were smart, but apparently not smart enough to outsmart everyone else.
We'll be awaiting your response and explanation. And it had better be good!
Is this you, Kevin?
http://www.freshports.org/mail/elm/
I'm looking for a bit of assistance from a undernet IRC node operator please. I would like a cloaked hostname. Seems I'm attracting a bit of attention.
Elm is an interactive screen-oriented mailer program that
supersedes mail and mailx. This is the 2.5.x distribution.
http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/75
Re: Unusual entry in Apache logs 2008-05-30
Kevin Day (toasty dragondata com)
Got anything to say for yourself?
http://www.freshports.org/mail/elm/
I'm looking for a bit of assistance from a undernet IRC node operator please. I would like a cloaked hostname. Seems I'm attracting a bit of attention.
Elm is an interactive screen-oriented mailer program that
supersedes mail and mailx. This is the 2.5.x distribution.
http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/75
Re: Unusual entry in Apache logs 2008-05-30
Kevin Day (toasty dragondata com)
Got anything to say for yourself?
To defend MagicalTux here. He is french, and the miscommunications are incredible. I used to work with many French, and they all come off like.. well like MtGox. Its a combo of language and culture, that make the French seems incredibly obnoxious to Americans when communicating in English.
.02
.02
Are you sure MagicalTux is FR, not just their European SEPA transactions partner company? (Not that this is too important, just curious)
Hey Kevin Day....
Are you the same Kevin Day that wrote the Book, "Inside the Security Mind" - Making the Tough Decisions
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Security-Mind-Making-Decisions/dp/0131118293
Product Description
Inside the Security Mind: Making the Tough Decisions, by security expert Kevin Day, teaches information officers how to think like a top security guru. Using real-world examples, Day explains how to reduce any security problem to a set of essential principles, making it easy to arrive at optimal solutions. Includes practical material on enterprise security issues and measures.
From the Back Cover
"This is a really good book ... it spells out the motherhood and apple pie of information security in a highly readable way."
—Warwick Ford, CTO, VeriSign, Inc.
"An excellent security read! Breaks down a complex concept into a simple and easy-to-understand concept."
—Vivek Shivananda, President
Redefine your organization's information security
Learn to think and act like a top security guru!
Understand the founding principles of security itself and make better decisions
Make your security solutions more effective, easily manageable, and less costly!
Make smarter, more informed security decisions for your companyOrganizations today commit ever-increasing resources to information security, but are scarcely more secure than they were four or five years ago! By treating information security like an ordinary technological practice—that is, by throwing money, a handful of the latest technologies, and a lineup of gurus at the problem—they invariably wind up with expensive, but deeply flawed, solutions. The only way out of this trap is to change one's way of thinking about security: to grasp the reasoning, philosophy, and logic that underlie all successful security efforts.
In Inside the Security Mind: Making the Tough Decisions, security expert Kevin Day teaches you how to approach information security the way the top gurus do—as an art, rather than a collection of technologies. By applying this discipline, your solutions will be more secure and less burdensome in time, expense, and effort. The first part of the book explains the practice of breaking security decisions down into a set of simple rules. These rules may then be applied to make solid security decisions in almost any environment. In the second part, Day uses a series of practical examples to illustrate exactly how the discipline works in practice. Additional material covers:
Designing an enterprise security plan, including perimeter/firewall and Internal defenses, application, system, and hardware security
Ongoing security measures—recurring audits, vulnerability maintenance, logging and monitoring, and incident response, plus risk assessment
Choosing between open source and proprietary solutions; and wired, wireless, and virtual private networks
This book is essential reading for anyone working to keep information secure. Technical and non-technical IT professionals alike can apply Day's concepts and strategies to become security gurus, while seasoned practitioners will benefit from the unique and effective presentation of the essential security practices.
Are you the same Kevin Day that wrote the Book, "Inside the Security Mind" - Making the Tough Decisions
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Security-Mind-Making-Decisions/dp/0131118293
Product Description
Inside the Security Mind: Making the Tough Decisions, by security expert Kevin Day, teaches information officers how to think like a top security guru. Using real-world examples, Day explains how to reduce any security problem to a set of essential principles, making it easy to arrive at optimal solutions. Includes practical material on enterprise security issues and measures.
From the Back Cover
"This is a really good book ... it spells out the motherhood and apple pie of information security in a highly readable way."
—Warwick Ford, CTO, VeriSign, Inc.
"An excellent security read! Breaks down a complex concept into a simple and easy-to-understand concept."
—Vivek Shivananda, President
Redefine your organization's information security
Learn to think and act like a top security guru!
Understand the founding principles of security itself and make better decisions
Make your security solutions more effective, easily manageable, and less costly!
Make smarter, more informed security decisions for your companyOrganizations today commit ever-increasing resources to information security, but are scarcely more secure than they were four or five years ago! By treating information security like an ordinary technological practice—that is, by throwing money, a handful of the latest technologies, and a lineup of gurus at the problem—they invariably wind up with expensive, but deeply flawed, solutions. The only way out of this trap is to change one's way of thinking about security: to grasp the reasoning, philosophy, and logic that underlie all successful security efforts.
In Inside the Security Mind: Making the Tough Decisions, security expert Kevin Day teaches you how to approach information security the way the top gurus do—as an art, rather than a collection of technologies. By applying this discipline, your solutions will be more secure and less burdensome in time, expense, and effort. The first part of the book explains the practice of breaking security decisions down into a set of simple rules. These rules may then be applied to make solid security decisions in almost any environment. In the second part, Day uses a series of practical examples to illustrate exactly how the discipline works in practice. Additional material covers:
Designing an enterprise security plan, including perimeter/firewall and Internal defenses, application, system, and hardware security
Ongoing security measures—recurring audits, vulnerability maintenance, logging and monitoring, and incident response, plus risk assessment
Choosing between open source and proprietary solutions; and wired, wireless, and virtual private networks
This book is essential reading for anyone working to keep information secure. Technical and non-technical IT professionals alike can apply Day's concepts and strategies to become security gurus, while seasoned practitioners will benefit from the unique and effective presentation of the essential security practices.
There's NO WAY to rectify this mess you've gotten into without screwing someone. And despite the decentralized, anarcho-capitalist philosophy underlying this experiment that you all jerk off to at night, you are all scream for litigation.
Just look at yourselves!
Just look at yourselves!
Excuse me, but me and my Rothbard pin-up poster want the government out of this.
If the government was taking bitcoins seriously you'd be going to prison man. You attempted to acquire 5 million dollars of stolen bitcoins, even if you didn't cause the crash. You only made off with about 10 grand worth. imho you should return those bitcoins to their rightful owner. MtGox is going to have to foot the bill for the bitcoins you withdrew!
This is fucking hilarious. ...
Its like kids in a sandbox. Most of you no understanding of economics and are all playing Michael Milken in your pajamas next to overclocked video cards.
Just look at yourselves.
There's NO WAY to rectify this mess you've gotten into without screwing someone. And despite the decentralized, anarcho-capitalist philosophy underlying this experiment that you all jerk off to at night, you are all scream for litigation.
Just look at yourselves!
Its like kids in a sandbox. Most of you no understanding of economics and are all playing Michael Milken in your pajamas next to overclocked video cards.
Just look at yourselves.
There's NO WAY to rectify this mess you've gotten into without screwing someone. And despite the decentralized, anarcho-capitalist philosophy underlying this experiment that you all jerk off to at night, you are all scream for litigation.
Just look at yourselves!
At one point, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were just kids in a sandbox, playing business tycoons from their garages, screaming and threatening litigation at each other too.
To defend MagicalTux here. He is french, and the miscommunications are incredible. I used to work with many French, and they all come off like.. well like MtGox. Its a combo of language and culture, that make the French seems incredibly obnoxious to Americans when communicating in English.
.02
.02
It's a matter of Latin language structure (French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and Romanian) versus Anglo-Saxon (not "Americans" specifically) and you could add Germanic language branch versus those 2... and why not Slav.
Confusions of an old Continent such as Europe.
This is fucking hilarious. I've just read through nine pages of fucking hilarity. "Bitcoin.... the future is now" evangelists, people claiming the OP should be in prison, Mt. Gox making accusations (despite the fact that Mark refused to get on the phone directly in Bruce Wagner's Bitcoin show. How far does this have to go before you people realize that you guys are way in over your head on this? Its like kids in a sandbox. Most of you no understanding of economics and are all playing Michael Milken in your pajamas next to overclocked video cards.
Just look at yourselves.
There's NO WAY to rectify this mess you've gotten into without screwing someone. And despite the decentralized, anarcho-capitalist philosophy underlying this experiment that you all jerk off to at night, you are all scream for litigation.
Just look at yourselves!
Just look at yourselves.
There's NO WAY to rectify this mess you've gotten into without screwing someone. And despite the decentralized, anarcho-capitalist philosophy underlying this experiment that you all jerk off to at night, you are all scream for litigation.
Just look at yourselves!
Kevin, after what Mt Gox did in the "their side" thread to try and CONNECT YOU with the hacker, I sure as hell hope you file that injunction.
I sure hope too, will make it easier for us.To defend MagicalTux here. He is french, and the miscommunications are incredible. I used to work with many French, and they all come off like.. well like MtGox. Its a combo of language and culture, that make the French seems incredibly obnoxious to Americans when communicating in English.
.02
I don't see how anyone can read the OP and think KD has a case for keeping his money. Based on his owns words, I think he should be going to prison. Compare what he did to what Martha Stewart did. Do we know where he lives? American DA's freakin' love to take on cases that will be big in the news.
what exactly did martha stewart do? it sure as shit wasn't commit any actual crimes.
What was she convicted of then? Trafficking in bad cooking advice?
I just noticed that Kevin lives in Chicago. So the attorney would be the very ambitious Anita Alvarez.
I am reminded of the previous mention (in another thread) of the utility of BTC for anonymous bribes...
I don't see how anyone can read the OP and think KD has a case for keeping his money. Based on his owns words, I think he should be going to prison. Compare what he did to what Martha Stewart did. Do we know where he lives? American DA's freakin' love to take on cases that will be big in the news.
what exactly did martha stewart do? it sure as shit wasn't commit any actual crimes.
I just noticed that Kevin lives in Chicago. So the attorney would be the very ambitious Anita Alvarez.
You people making the stolen property analogies are leaving out one critical factor. The middleman.
Let's say you go to a used car dealer, and you purchase a vehicle. Later it comes to light that the car was stolen. Would you then give the vehicle back? No. You wouldnt. The dealer would be responsible. Simple as that. The dealer would have to re-imburse either the original victim, or give the car back and re-coup the buyer. It doesnt matter what price the car was, if I bought it for 5 dollars, it was an agreement made with a professional organization who decided to get into the business of selling these things.
Let's say you go to a used car dealer, and you purchase a vehicle. Later it comes to light that the car was stolen. Would you then give the vehicle back? No. You wouldnt. The dealer would be responsible. Simple as that. The dealer would have to re-imburse either the original victim, or give the car back and re-coup the buyer. It doesnt matter what price the car was, if I bought it for 5 dollars, it was an agreement made with a professional organization who decided to get into the business of selling these things.
Except, in this case the thief walked into a Ferrari dealer pretended to be a legitimate salesman and sold it for $5...the buyer should have known better and now he is pissed because the dealership wants their car back.
I was in the forums while this was all happening and I myself thought it was either:
1) An early adopter selling off without care for crashing the market.
2) A mistake...someone entered .02 instead of 20 (I am aware how stupid that sounds...people can be stupid).
3) A hack.
I cannot say that if I had money in my account I would not have bought what I could...that is the smart thing to do...just I wouldn't cry when they tell me "Sorry, that was clearly an illegal trade" because I knew from the start there was a chance of that.
Regarding the 500k BTC account:
Bitcoin transfers aren't free, remember? So, if you trade between USD and BTC a lot, if it was actually done Bitcoin to Bitcoin, the transaction fees would be eating up a lot of people's trades, and would be costly for MtGox as well. I suspect the actual buying and selling is all done on a SQL database, and the only time actual Bitcoin comes into play is when someone requests a withdrawal. I think this method is a good idea, since it saves everyone money. Due to this, though, the 500K Bitcoin that was "stolen" could very likely be just an arbitrary number in an account, which doesn't mean anything more than an IOU from MtGox. So, not reverting this would amount to actually filling everyone's account with actual bitcoin. Like others pointed out, these stolen IOU's could very well be money from EVERYONE'S accounts, not just one rich guys.
Bitcoin transfers aren't free, remember? So, if you trade between USD and BTC a lot, if it was actually done Bitcoin to Bitcoin, the transaction fees would be eating up a lot of people's trades, and would be costly for MtGox as well. I suspect the actual buying and selling is all done on a SQL database, and the only time actual Bitcoin comes into play is when someone requests a withdrawal. I think this method is a good idea, since it saves everyone money. Due to this, though, the 500K Bitcoin that was "stolen" could very likely be just an arbitrary number in an account, which doesn't mean anything more than an IOU from MtGox. So, not reverting this would amount to actually filling everyone's account with actual bitcoin. Like others pointed out, these stolen IOU's could very well be money from EVERYONE'S accounts, not just one rich guys.
I don't see how anyone can read the OP and think KD has a case for keeping his money. Based on his owns words, I think he should be going to prison. Compare what he did to what Martha Stewart did. Do we know where he lives? American DA's freakin' love to take on cases that will be big in the news.
what exactly did martha stewart do? it sure as shit wasn't commit any actual crimes.
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