Topic: I'm Kevin, here's my side. - page 6. (Read 258614 times)

Some people fail to grasp the concept that the coins were stolen.

Alot of people actually seem to not really grasp that or don't care.  If all of the coins were indeed from EVERYBODIE's accounts, and a rollback is the only way to save most of them... I don't see how it can really be up for debate.

Obviously it's pointless to try using the honor system around here and just ask that people return the stolen coins.


This is for people in the US... idk about international law.  It's common knowledge that the coins were stolen.  Therefore if you bought them and have them in your wallet, you're in possession of stolen property.

Do you actually still believe that story?  With all the evidence pointing out otherwise? Wow.

There are *very* competent security teams on this planet.  They don't advertise.  I would feel very comfortable with one of these teams flying in and taking a look ASAP.

How about solution #6:
Roll-Back all accounts back to the very beginning!

+ Fixes my mistakes when I bought my coins at $28.
+ Fixes early adopter's mistakes when they sold at below $1.
+ Now everyone have a fresh & equal start.

are you crazy?  if there is one thing i have learned from this it's never trust a 3rd party 'auditor'.  actually wait just make that never trust a 3rd party

I appreciate the attempt at a solution, however the above statement is unfortunately not correct.  It's quite plausible it may be correct, but it's equally plausible the bitcoins didn't even exist in the first place (e.g. attacker adding +500,000 to the "BTCBalance" column or whatever for their account, via SQL injection).

Since it's been pretty much proven the story given by MtGox is incorrect, it's really wild speculation as to the real current situation.  Without all the information, my vote currently is to "sit and wait" until a third party can audit this mess.  I was previously in favor of a rollback, until it became painfully obvious that we were being misled about the situation.

I am of the opinion without truthful information about the situation, it's impossible to make an informed decision.  How many other fake balances exist in the system now, that will be re-activated when the site goes live?  I have about 500 questions like this, that are impossible to even begin to answer without getting some information in the light.

-Phil

Oh, hey, how about Solution #5:

Take a vote for rolling back versus letting transactions stay. Since it's fairly obvious that the 500kBTC sale was from the pooled account holding everyone's money,

+ Those who were against the roll back have a  fair (% weighted) portion of the stolen money withdrawn from their accounts to pay for the theft, letting them keep their sense of morality about it.
+ Those who are for the roll back are compensated partially from MtGox's own wallet and partially from the other people
+ MtGox takes a hit in the wallet, but that hit is somewhat mitigated
+ People who managed to get away with the ridiculously low buys get to keep their money.

This way everyone wins!

He came forward within minutes (lets call it an hour or two so I'm not later called a liar) of this all going down, directly to the owner of MtGox via IRC.  At that time it was attempted to keep things a bit quiet on the public side for obvious reasons.

Chat logs will confirm this, should it ever come to that.

This was also mentioned in the OP.

Well of course the polls favour a rollback. When a market moves this fast there is going to be a very slim proportion of traders that gain!!

Surely we should refer to examples in the traditional financial system. This kind of thing has happened and does happen from time to time.

Why should he, bitcoin is rather wild west.  If you want a government regulated thing, try government bonds or something.

It's rational if you realize you're going to be caught anyway. Did he come forward before he thought he'd be tracked down, or after? Seemed like after to me.

Nobody called Kevin, or any of the 5 or 6 other lucky traders who got a piece of that pie, a thief (Tux implied it, but nobody rational would steal that much money and then come forward like Kevin did). Option 3 would be a fine idea, If it were not such a large amount that got traded, and it weren't such a C-F as to the source of those funds. As it stands, a roll-back is the sanest way to get everyone as close to made whole as possible, and then they can proceed with paying back anyone who got shafted as a result.

Which Kevin then got with his buy order. There's even apparently evidence in another thread that he did actually place the order after the market started crashing. Looking good so far.

BUAHHAHA... you honestly can't write this stuff.

How sweet would that be that this hacker is going along and mr Kevin swoops in and buys all the btc lol

Heh, so could it be that Kevin actually saved Mt. Gox? If his buy order went in just as the hacker's sell was winding down and he was the first to buy in quantity, Kevin snapped up the balance and the hacker could not transfer out anything because he sold the complete balance (didn't see that coming). Unless Kevin was the hacker or associated with of course.

Still, rollback is the fair thing to do.

Every poll shows overwhelming support for wolves to eat the sheep. So what?

There are just few people that gamed the AUCTION system when the price was very attractive.

Unfortunately every poll shows overwhelmingly a preference for a rollback.

You buy exotic fruits. Later you found out you got them for 1 cent but they cost 10 dollars a day before. Later it turns out it was becasuse the baazar owner left doors unlocked and some people rearranged price tags.

Now YOU are called the thief.
And the guys that bought apples for 3 or 10 USD are also - well perhaps not called thiefs - but they are not getting the apples they dealed and payed for (well they will have their money returned, but they would prefer the deal to be carried out and shop owner is not reimbursing this).

@d.james
If the jury (us) reach a consensus, it is a great moment to see the impartiality of the judge.
If we all agree that it is plain ridiculous, and that actually Kevin should get compensated somehow, but MtGox takes an arbitrary position.

For me, that will be a ticker telling me to GTFO.
And I might do it if that happens.

In a real debate, team Kevin would be winning right now,
but the hammer is in gox' hand, so...

fuck it... i think i might be on team kevin.  I've been pro roll back since I heard about what happened.  I still am, but after reading Kevin's long post he's obviously well educated (more than me at least )  My main issue is that the sell off was not legitimate.  It's akin to a bank robber stealing 1oz gold coins and then selling them all off at a flea market for $10 when people know they're worth $1500 each.  Sure, you're going to buy buy buy.  But at the end of the day, it's basically receiving stolen property which at least in the states is a crime.

I'm almost willing to think this option 3 as layed out by Kevin could be the best thing to do.  The rollback was obviously a hasty decision, as I'm sure in such a panic state it would be hard to think of what else to do.  Surely the idea of covering the losses didn't just come to mind.  A mainsteam type business would have insurance for things like this and it wouldn't be about coming out of pocket as the business operator.



I do however have my doubts about how option 3 would effect the bitcoin community.  How does that effect value to know that some guy just got nearly 300k bitcoins for a little more than the money you've insvested in mining equipment over the past month?  

If a bank is robbed and the robber simply transfers money to other peoples accounts, what do you think the bank would do?  They're not going to let people keep the ill-gotten monies.

I just know I would not want to be MTGox.  And if I were the guy w\ 500k bitcoins, I'd feel obligated to lessen the blow to Kevin for being a stand up guy.  Kevin as he said could have simply hit withdraw over and over again and taken out much more btc than he did, but he's obviously an honest guy w\ morals.