Topic: Institutional money into Crypto? (Read 6006 times)

First, let us all agree that we are all on the same side here - on the Bitcoin side.

Secondly, when I talk about paper coin, I refer to coin derivatives and investments vehicles such as futures market, certificates, and others.


It does matter a great deal what the majority of people do. When some people invest in paper coin, they are essencially dilluting the price of coin. And I am going to provide a very simplistic example here.

Let's say I am a broker and I offer Bitcoin certificates. You buy my worthless certificate. You even see that I have more than just your coin, I have 20 coins on there.  And I even offer you to look on the blockchain to verify I do in fact have a coin to back that certificate. Than I sell an other 200 certificates to an other 200 guys on the forum. And I show each and everyone of them that I do have the coin on the blockchain to back that paper. But I only have 20 coins on the block chain to back the 200 certificates.

That sounds absurd and ridiculous. But that's exactly what they are doing with gold right now through variations of rehypotecation and fractional reserve banking. And it's all legal, albeit completely immoral.

The big problem with this is that my little scheme is creating the illusion that there are more coins in circulation than there really are. And the more paper coin I sell, the more negatively the bitcoin price is affected.

There are two ways this scam can ever end. Either everyone smartens up, or everyone decide to cash in their certificates. And neither ever happens in this day and age. And if it does happen, government will just bail me out. Cuz, ya know, I'm too big to fail, trickle down economics, and all that nonsense.

I understand that you think regulation and Wall Street money would bring awareness towards bitcoin, legitimize it, and act as publicity for Bitcoin.

But it won't. All it will do is legitimize paper coin. And that will have the same effect as what paper gold does to actual gold: divert potential gold investors towards paper gold.

For every guy buying an actual coin, there would likely be an other 20 guys buying paper coin.

Without Wall Street, everyone who invests ends up investing directly in Bitcoin. But Wall Street just steals some of that investment money via paper coin.

This is exactly how the gold market works right now. The price of gold is actually strictly engineered and controlled. Wall Street would do the same thing with Bitcoin.


I'm not aware of what event you are talking about here. So I can't speak to that.


It doesn't matter if some people care about having the keys when investing. All tgat matters is tgat some investors will be lured away from Bitcoin and into paper coin.

This is what Wall Street does best - offer fake investments, a.ka. derivatives. And that's how they collapsed the entire housing market in 2008 while reaping insane profits. But based on your logic, the 2008 housing bubble didn't happen because most people who invest in a home can see they hace an actual home to invest in.


Thanx for the tip.

I'm not talking about gold. I'm talking about what Wall Street did to gold. And what they will do to Bitcoin.

I know the difference between a puppy and a kitten. But if your next door neighbor is strangling kittens for fun, it might not be a good idea to let him play with your dog.

The point here is this. Imagine that ten people are getting ready to invest in Bitcoin right now. All they can do is buy and sell bitcoin, or mine, or whatever they wish to do to aquire actual Bitcoin. Doesn't matter if 5 out of these ten people are retards willing to buy anything with a B on it instead of actual Bitcoin. All they can do is buy Bitcoin, period.

But once Wall Street is regulated and offering paper coin, some of these ten guys will be fooled by it. And even if only two of them are dumb enough to buy paper coin, that's still two investors taken away from Bitcoin, and two investors creating the illusion of an increased supply of Bitcoin.

The question is not about their money

Even if these guys have been in Bitcoin since its inception (which may well be the case). For this they don't need ETF's, SEC approvals and whatnot. The question is about managing someone else's money (preferably big money). Basically, ETF's and similar institutions (for example, pension funds) are investing the money of their clients. And their clients are these average Joe's who may not even have heard about crypto (let alone been using it)

Any proofs? Wall Street is there for a concrete reasons which big percent of it depend on factors like power,money. Institutional money is smart money which never flows to financial assets that don't have any potential like return on the investment more than 50%. Speculation is root of all evil and crypto markets are strongly manipulated by big guys. Inside information is biggest advantage of them and we all know the power information in 21 century especially for financial markets.

The Wall Street guys are in cryptocurrencies market and I strongly believe that some of them Own some projects.  Institutionalized investors like bank are waiting for some set up in cryptocurrencies market for them to started coming into the market.

No. This is the exact type of "their" thinking.
We need those people to enter but only with knowledge. What good is there from speculators and opportunists?
Plummets and volatility, nothing more. We need stable adoption by those who care for their own and their kids freedom.

Agreed on all the rest you have written, "they" are already in, most likely playing dirty by now.

Your late, wall street guys have already been in crypto for a long time.  Winklevoss twins have connections in all those circles and they have been in bitcoin for years now and are working on their additional crypto businesses.  The money needed to enter the market is the average joes who don't even know how to use bitcoin.

Big institutional money has been going to enter this market for a long time, but still can not be solved, there are too big risks and revenues, and maybe they are afraid of uncertainty...
Anyway, I don't see the good news that with the arrival of wall street, the price will go up. This price may just as well go down, as it is more likely that large amounts of money may play down to buy bitcoin at a better price first.
Warren Buffett and other influential people on wall street do not make a finger and know where to invest, so it's better to drop the price and then start buying.
As Buffett said, buy shares of companies when the companies are very bad..

It doesn't matter what the majority of people do or not do, whether they care or not. A couple of lawsuits and a dozen of angry dudes (like Bitfinexd one) will do just wonders in this regard in this epoch. The rest will be history. Other than that, people who invest in stocks are buying stocks and they are what they are, even if these are trash stocks only. Obviously, you are confusing stocks with derivatives here, investors with speculators

While the former do care if they buy real value or paper shit


Bitcoin is not gold (and I won't get tired repeating it)

especially with the increasing number of bitcoin users, and what needs to be remembered is that at the moment the bitcoiner is still minimal, of course we can imagine if many countries legalize it.

If wall street bring bitcoin, its a great marketing for cryptocurrency. People and investor must be interesting and studying about bitcoin and invest on cryptocurrency market. People will thinking bitcoin is regulated investment and with limited supply, bitcoin price will increasing

You don't realise that the majority of people who invest in things like stocks and other investment vehicles don't really care if the paper they buy is backed by actual assets or not.

Those people who are buying gold certificates today are content with the the claim that it's backed by gold without any means of verifying it. They are equally happy to buy unallocated gold certificates, which don't even try to claim they are backed by actual gold.

So if the vast majority of people are fully happy with worthless paper gold, what makes you think they won't be happy with worthless paper Bitcoin?


I strongly disagree. They are already openly doing just that with gold and only very very few people give a rat's ass about it.

The benefit wallstreet brings to bitcoin is not just financial, it is about marketing. Even if they don't directly pump the price it will hit the media and add more confidence for regular people to invest in it and start mainstream adoption

I disagree with your point of view. It's not really as serious as you think. The crypto market is also a financial market. When our market has many new whales invading, it will have a lot of interesting things.
The whales will dispute the right to manipulate, pushing the price of coins high to gain possession. We will be profitable as more and more big investors join the crypto market.

Wall street investing they found in bitcoin will have the capacity to pump the price of bitcoin in the market but the fact is it can only have positive effect on bitcoin since bitcoin operate on the law of demands and supply but the wall street will not have the ability to control bitcoin because bitcoin is a decentralized institution.

It is pretty simple really. If these funds claim that the Bitcoin certificates they are going to issue are fully covered by Bitcoin reserves, you would expect them to actually provide a means of checking that (given that all relevant information about ownership is freely available on the blockchain anyway). If they don't do that, it will raise a lot of eyebrows and accusations of deliberate lies as well as misinformation (probably followed by lawsuits). On the other hand, just one fund actually proving they are what they claim to be will suffice as the rest will have to either do the same or go out of the business

So yes, because "blockchain"


I really doubt that. I guess the next thing you are going to say is that the mainstream investors are illiterate

What evidence do you have for that?

Because it doesn't happen in other markets. Anyone can look up what's in the COMEX gold vaults and see outstanding contracts aren't fully deliverable. But nobody cares and everyone keeps trading. Very few traders care about the underlying trustability of markets or custodians, they just want to make profits. Why would that change with Bitcoin? Because "blockchain?" LOL. Most Bitcoin investors don't even know how to use a block explorer, and this will only get worse over time as more mainstream investors enter the market.

I don't think Mastercard is in the business of creating useless and pointless patents.


You overestimate public stupidity. As I pointed out earlier, I invest in physical gold and silver (that's bullion I can hold in my hand). Yet I would say that the vast majority of people who invest in gold and silver know very well what woryhless paper gold looks like. Yet when I show them a gold 1 oz bar, they tell me they never saw that before.

In fact most people would prefer paper gold over actual real gold. So why do you assume nobody would want paper coin over real Bitcoin is behond me.


Owning paper gold and worthless gold derivatives is also an exercise in stupidity and futility. But that doesn't stop people from buying it like hot cakes. What makes you think they will scuff at paper coin and coin derivatives?

I find your attitude to be rather defeatist. And I don't agree.


If voting could change anything at all, it would be illegal. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Freedom is a well armed sheep demanding a vote recount.

Government is involved in every aspect of your life. You can't point to a single thing they don't tax, regulate, standardize, license, permit, or subsidize. And you yourself wrote that governments are too powerful and there is nothing you can do about it. Well, for starters you could stop demanding more government involvement in every aspect of your life, and everyone else's. That would be a pretty good start, don't you think?

Governments are always powerful and they will do everything in their power to control each and every citizen and nothing can be done about it, if you are living in a country where you could vote for the next rules, make sure you choose the perfect person rather than skipping the entire electoral process.
Bitcoin will give you the freedom to trade beyond boundaries and right now it is seen as a store of value and eventually it will change. If there is regulations and clarity on each governments take on the current market, you might see institutional investments and it will boost the market without a doubt but not sure how it will be in the long run.

It doesn't mean a shit

There are literally thousands of totally useless and pointless patents. You can patent something too because you can (but beware of prior art). Kidding aside, if MasterCard patents fractional reserve on bitcoin, it doesn't in the least mean that anyone will be using these paper bitcoins, and definitely not because of the royalties (just like with other such stupid inventions). All in all, it is an exercise in stupidity and futility