Topic: Institutional money into Crypto? - page 3. (Read 6000 times)

I don’t really see anything wrong with that. Bitcoin is not actually owned and controlled by anyone or group of people.

Although it can be manipulated, that’s why you are being told the price is based on the rate of demand and supply. Those who are rich will invest a huge to pump the price and when it happens they will quickly withdraw and price will start to fall again. So if they invest their money, the only thing that’s going to happen is that price will rise and that’s it.

I'm not against greed and profit. Greed and profits are good things.
But it's blatantly obvious from reading this thread that most people don't understand what the philosophy of Bitcoin is. Some comments outright welcome legislation and regulation.
Don't these people understand that Bitcoin was set up to fight against government fiat? Don't they understand that banks, government, and Wall Street are the ennemy of Bitcoin?

How many of the people on this thread do you think would be jumping up and down if tomorrow their bank manager offered them a Bitcoin account or Bitcoin credit card?

Greed is good. If you are going to buy Bitcoin at low price and sell it at high price,this is actually good for Bitcoin as it helps stabilise the price and makes it more suitable as a stable store of value and currency.

I don't have a problem at all with profit. I'm not a communist. I just realise that most people on here only view Bitcoin as an investment vehicle and they would be willing to trade anonymity, and unadulterated free market for legislation and regulation if they are given the promis of more profit.

If you ask me, this is a very lopsided view

While you personally may be in for quite a long time and not going to spend or exchange even a single satoshi for fiat, no matter what the price might be (though I seriously doubt that), having Bitcoin's price tag over 3k helps a lot even if you are an early adopter (you know, life circumstances and all that). But this price simply wouldn't be possible without all these greedy people sticking around. Without them Bitcoin would likely remain mostly unknown to anyone out there (I mean common people), with its development stagnating heavily (provided Bitcoin would be developed at all). In short, cast no dirt into the well that gives you water

Yeah, I'm starting to realise that. I was mining in early 2009. And after 10 years away, I decide to come back. And this is what the community has become? A bunch of greedy people more concerned with the price than anything else while completely misunderstanding what Bitcoin stands for.

In this thread I've come to realise that a great many people here would gladly get rid of their coin to get paper coin issued by their bank or broker.

This is not helping one single bit.

So you are a gold bug?

Okay then, but I don't think we can compare gold to Bitcoin for the purposes discussed here. When you buy an allegedly allocated gold certificate, you can't check whether this gold actually exists and allocated to you personally. But with Bitcoin it is different as no one will be buying Bitcoin certificates without being able to check whether their bitcoins actually exist (even if they don't have the keys)

This question had been discussed in great detail in the past, and the consensus was such these institutions will be interested in full transparency regarding their operation (as Bitcoin easily allows such transparency) lest they should fail to attract a lot of investments and investors. That's the power of the blockchain

Guys who have been involved in Bitcoin for a while don't think the price of Bitcoin is all that important. What we view as very important is that the number of Bitcoin users increase while the platform remains anonymous, decentralized, affordable, and unregulated.

The only people who are concerned with the price of Bitcoin are those who never even heard of Bitcoin before 2017. And they think it's some sort of get-rich-quick investment vehicle.

If you want your bank to offer Bitcoin mutual funds and if you want your government to regulate/legislate Bitcoin, you are completely missing the boat on what Bitcoin stands for.

For a very very oversimplified explanation of why banks/government/institutions into Bitcoin is a terrible idea, I suggest you read my 13# on this thread: found here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.49685666

And if you want a much better explanation than mine, here is Andreas Antonopoulos (a.ka. Bitcoin Buddah) explaining it very eloquently:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LgI0liAee4s&t=262s


Any time you invest in Bitcoin and you don't have the keys in your wallet, you are not investing in Bitcoin at all.
Again, for a really oversimplified and dumbed down explanation, re-read my post 13# on this thread.


This is what you believe based on your unshakable faith in the establishment and banksters. In fact when it comes to gold, I can buy an unallocated certificate, or an allocated one. They are the exact same price, except the unallocated one doesn't even pretend to have a gold bar attached to it.

I don't buy neither, I buy physical gold. And you can't buy that from a bank or from a broker.


If it moves, government wants to tax it.
If it keeps moving, government wants to regulate it.
If it stops moving, government wants to subsidise it.

If you look around you today, you can't name a single thing or action that doesn't involve government legalizing it, legislating it, taxing it, standardizing it, permitting it, licencing it, subsidizing it, or restricting it.

And it greatly saddens me to watch statists beg for more government intervention into everything. It saddens me even more to see the Bitcoin community invaded by a bunch of government loving and Wall Street loving statists.

Cash-settled Bitcoin futures are essentially those bitcoin certificates

And they have been around since November 2017 if I'm not wrong on the dates. However, they didn't attract a lot of investors, so there is no reason to think that these certificates would necessarily do better. And keep in mind that they can't fool anyone into thinking they have real bitcoins while there are in fact none

The rumors are circulating non-stop that there is less gold in the COMEX vaults than the amount bought with physically-settled gold futures, and that may in fact be true. But this trick is set to fail with Bitcoin as it is easy for everyone to see on the blockchain how many bitcoins they actually have

Bitcoin was created to solve the problems associated with fiat currency. I can not invest in bitcoin and be given a paper certificate. If this is done the aim of bitcoin has been defeated.

Would be a pretty bullish move then. Unfortunately the majority of these news are overhyped and not coming to real practice. They are there to keep people's spirits alive and make sure they survive the bear market because we are hopeful for the future. Hope is a good thing and something that is lacking in many people.

However lets get the ETF for bitcoin done at least before thinking about wall street. SEC said that its going to happen but nothing clear yet as of when. If this happens before the ETF then the effect could be different. Institutional money from wall street may or may not be interested in bitcoin. I reckon there will be more FUD from nocoiners.

The market really need funding to recover and if Wall Street will bring in money I think it will be a great developments. Institutional investors need to come into this market and if it is going to be through Wall Street then I think it is for the good of the market.  I know that big investors will like to get greater percentages of bitcoin so there can continue to control the demand and supply of bitcoin and if possible trying to centralized it but the reality is that bitcoin is greater than government,  company or individual to control and as such I welcome the development.

of course these institutions need a role from the government to provide rules and policies, so that investors will feel comfortable. luckily in my country there has been a discourse for that, so if done by many countries it will have a good effect

We need to have institutional investment in bitcoin if we are to see huge numbers like everyone dreams about, i am not sure how they can provide bonds and certificates with bitcoin without owning one, but when it comes to future trading it is true, you do not need to own bitcoin for those kind of trade, you really cannot issue bitcoin or any bonds without any collateral, if they issue bonds in the name of bitcoin they need to have real bitcoin as collateral. Regulation will be coming up in near future so that we will have some clarity regarding those.

Wall street didn't do it, people who uses it does.

Printing paper money is unlimited ever since so I think that's the way of being a Bitcoin, when the things in this world that is limited and in demand at the same time, the price appreciation will be inevitable.

Someone proposes Bitcoin to be deal with the wall street and that someone knew that he/she will make a profit out of it no matter how good or bad it is. We can't tell it as early as of now but good thought.

The following is worth reading twice and trice until everyone understands this.


Let's make no mistake about this. Wall Street, institutional investors, and banks can only wreck havoc on Bitcoin.  Nothing good can come out of any Bitcoin investment where you don't hold your keys.

Banks worked tirelessly to eliminate gold money and the gold standard over the last century. They are not going to allow Bitcoin any traction without putting up one hell of a fight.

Purely cash settled markets don't matter. They are isolated from the spot market because these are essentially "contract for difference" (CFD) markets. Buyers and sellers agree on a contract price, and the sellers pay buyers the difference between current value and settlement value. This is settled in cash, so there is no avenue for buying or selling of real bitcoins, so it doesn't affect real prices. If Wall Street were to manipulate cash settled markets downwards, there's no way for Bitcoin holders to sell coins elsewhere and wire the USD to CME to buy their coins back. Since arbitrage is impossible, these markets should always follow spot, never lead.

If we start seeing "paper bitcoins" (Citibank is currently working on one such instrument, and Bakkt is working on another), it's a different story. If the option exists to settle in Bitcoin, then these markets could potentially lead the spot markets, all while diluting the supply. That spells disaster for the price.

At first it sounds very great to hear that an institution as large as Wall Street is bringing its investment into Bitcoin, but your analysis of the negative impact gets me worried. I would like to know how certain you are of this assumptions as it has not happened, neither did Wall Street came out to declare their modus operandi when it fully gets involved in Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. If you have a source, please name it. Thanks

I have a unpopular opinion in my mind that wall street Wall Street money is already in the crypto market of course not officially but privately. Even though we don't have ETFs yet we cannot dismiss the possibility that some of their board members are already buying up and selling cryptos with large sums of capital privately this people are risk takers and most of them want to go big or go home. So in the conditions we are having now where whales dominate the market we can say that some of the whales are also from wall street, only making it official with ETFs won't change anything in the market.

I somewhat agree to your statement but not entirely! If wall street money is pumped into crypto market, we will gain one very important parameter for the sustainability of cryptos - legality! That will be an examplenary incident for the rest of the world and will serve as a case study for those pessimistic countries! It may increase the adoption rate of cryptos to a massive level we can't imagine now!

However, every good thing comes with its own risk and it will not be an exception. We will have to face increased number of speculation around crypto prices. As we will see huge money inflow during good times, we will also see even greater number of withdrawals during bad times. The crypto prices will be more unstable than ever. But this is something we are already facing so it won't make much difference for the existing traders, but newbies will have hard time to cope up with it.

In a nutshell, I don't see the adoption if wall street is a bad thing after all. Crypto us definitely a revolution but the beauty of this revolution lies with co-existance.

This is the reason that all these people want a Bitcoin ETF. It is not going to do any good in terms of technology or mass adoption. It will just make the bags of the big players bigger and they will just pump the price.
Decentralized vs centralized or crypto vs banks doesn't exist anymore.

Not yet! This market is not ready for it. Investors must be sure that their money are in safety place - Binance and other exchanges aren't such places...
There no laws and rules of regulation this market... It's early right now for Wall Street to join crypto world. Crypto futures is one step but to move further, the market should be prepared for it.