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Topic: Institutional money into Crypto? - page 4. (Read 6000 times)

full member
Activity: 686
Merit: 104
February 11, 2019, 11:43:36 AM
#28


I'm not so optimist. I think Wall Street getting into Bitcoin can only mean bad things. Mainly rehypotecation and paper bitcoin allowing countless people to invest in Bitcoin 'certificates' rather than owning actual Bitcoin.

How do you guys feel about that?
You think Wall Street money getting pumped into Bitcoin can be a good thing?


this can actually cause a stir in the market, with the wall street decision to put money into bitcoin, they definitely want a "return" if the market is pumped up on the huge investment they make. and yes, maybe you are right if bad things will happen if in the end bitcoin will be owned in the form of a certificate where there is the name wall street and not bitcoin in full anymore. but the possibility of that happening is only 10%, I'm still very confident bitcoin will continue like this, and its value will definitely grow with or not wall street there.
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1025
February 11, 2019, 11:19:22 AM
#27
For the fact that "bitcoin will be death of wall street and not an instrument" we are already beyond that. Wall street already turned bitcoin into an instrument and people use it like a commodity and investment.

Bitcoin wasn't suppose to be an investment, it supposed to be money itself, however people use it like "put dollars into exchange, buy bitcoin, sell bitcoin, withdraw more dollars from exchange" and since they started using it that way and bitcoin became a topic of "how much dollar it is" instead of "what is the buying power of it" wall street already won.

Bitcoin will never hurt wall street from now on, there is no way, maybe master card and visa but not the investment companies, they will jump in on this and some of them already did and I am sure most of them hold some bitcoins just in case and that resulted with bitcoin losing that "wall street killer" ideology long ago.
Pab
legendary
Activity: 1862
Merit: 1012
February 11, 2019, 11:08:39 AM
#26
Institutions are not always Wall Street
with Bakkt launch we will have merchants adoption
There are services what can join crypto thanks  to Bakkt
Not all institution what are on Fidelity are Wall Street
But for sure some Wall Street boys will like to join party and than we will have kind of manipulation big pump and yet another dump
I am only  afraid what than after EFT approval bitcoin  can be the same like gold market is now where price is fully controlled by big institution money
sr. member
Activity: 750
Merit: 252
February 11, 2019, 10:31:09 AM
#25
Wall Street is such a strong institution that death of it is very hard to imagine. We will have to wait to see if this news is true or if it's just a speculation. Lots of people are hoping and are believing in blockchain as a revolution of currency system but, as I was writing about similar subject numerous of times, I don't think that it can pass by the greatest players just like that. They will find a solution to continue with the system that makes them the only side that consider about everything when money and payment system is involved...
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1018
February 11, 2019, 09:54:22 AM
#24
Would the traders go to banks to buy certificates instead of going to crypto exchanges to buy BTC?

They can create however tons of those certificate but with the information surrounding the internet, they sure would see advise to get a wallet of their own. They'd be thinking wisely not to buy certificates than having a real nano wallet for themselves if they are to really hold coins.
hero member
Activity: 2268
Merit: 579
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
February 11, 2019, 09:44:21 AM
#23
Hey guys. I'm very active on Quora. There a great many people are predicting tgat cryptos will get bigger soon as Wall Street is working to get invested in cryptos. They all think that once banks bring their massive funds into crypto, that the price will go sky high.

I'm not so optimist. I think Wall Street getting into Bitcoin can only mean bad things. Mainly rehypotecation and paper bitcoin allowing countless people to invest in Bitcoin 'certificates' rather than owning actual Bitcoin.

How do you guys feel about that?
You think Wall Street money getting pumped into Bitcoin can be a good thing?

I for one only see bad stuff down that road. Bitcoin  is supposed to be the death of Wall Street, not it's instrument.

Your thoughts?

It's not only Wall Street.It's the CBOE and CME that want bitcoin derivatives.The whole Bakkt project is about bitcoin futures/derivatives.This is what the institutional investors want.I guess that they just want to store btc.
But if you buy such derivative,the entity that owns the real btc that backs that derivative might scam buy.
This is just another level of centralization.

There's no doubt that the institutional act is to form a kind of centralization of crypto market and this is why I don't support the CBOE and CME when it was implemented. Besides, the CBOE and CME was one of the thing which I believed that lead to the bad corrections of the crypto market last year because some set of people seize the advantage of CBOE and CME to force control and manipulate the market.
hero member
Activity: 1218
Merit: 534
February 11, 2019, 08:24:31 AM
#22
Most people here don't care about crypto vs the banks.  They just want their bags to be pumped so they can dump for fiat money.  There aren't many hardcore libertarian left in bitcoin.
hero member
Activity: 3052
Merit: 651
February 11, 2019, 08:19:55 AM
#21
Oh I love this guy. He saw through the banking scam, I mean banking institution and they are all right.
Yeah I get it, you are not joking about it because it is reality.

If this is just what they will do with the crypto technology then hell no. I would still want to see a bitcoin in my wallet rather than having just a certificates which proves I really own 1 while in reality 10 of us own that 1 using just a certificate. This is why I hate the banks.
So where is our money at?
They invest it for a greater profit. It is a good business, maybe I will also create one. Grin
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1352
Cashback 15%
February 11, 2019, 07:29:14 AM
#20
My fear is that if Wall Street actually gets around to invest in Bitcoin, they will not issue any actual Bitcoin to their customers anymore than they are issuing actual gold bars to their customers. They will just sell 'paper Bitcoin' or bitcoin certificates to their customers. 

This, I think, would be happening at a larger scale in the near future. They know for a fact that not all people would love to get themselves in a hassle of storing and keeping their assets safe, so they'd go to a trustworthy bank and let the institution handle their money for them. What amazes me is that they are able to do this thing for decades, and have even invented fancy names for the fraud that they are doing. I'm not afraid of institutional investors coming in to crypto; what I'm afraid is if people are too gullible enough to let the banks rip them off of their money thinking they got a better deal on crypto.
sr. member
Activity: 700
Merit: 275
February 11, 2019, 03:16:25 AM
#19
˜

This explanation is actually pretty close to the reality. I mean why would wall street really be giving them real bitcoins if they already have such ways of luring people with digital certification. Its truly intriguing how they illustrate people about the owing of physical bullions. When it will come to the bitcoin then they will surely have some boded digital platforms via which they will be given bitcoins but not the real one, just the illusion of same as OP stated.

This will never ever create any real demand about the bitcoin. Because for demand to get hyped, actual bitcoin must be bought from the circulation. :-)

So yeah, it could be the case that Wall Street will never be able to hype this market at all.

If there comes any pseudo marketing due to the fact that Wall Street being entering into market, then there will be smaller portion of population which will go and buy bitcoin in the hope that they will see it hiking one day. But without that its just hope.
full member
Activity: 899
Merit: 101
February 11, 2019, 03:08:43 AM
#18
Hey guys. I'm very active on Quora. There a great many people are predicting tgat cryptos will get bigger soon as Wall Street is working to get invested in cryptos. They all think that once banks bring their massive funds into crypto, that the price will go sky high.

I'm not so optimist. I think Wall Street getting into Bitcoin can only mean bad things. Mainly rehypotecation and paper bitcoin allowing countless people to invest in Bitcoin 'certificates' rather than owning actual Bitcoin.

How do you guys feel about that?
You think Wall Street money getting pumped into Bitcoin can be a good thing?

I for one only see bad stuff down that road. Bitcoin  is supposed to be the death of Wall Street, not it's instrument.

Your thoughts?

It's not only Wall Street.It's the CBOE and CME that want bitcoin derivatives.The whole Bakkt project is about bitcoin futures/derivatives.This is what the institutional investors want.I guess that they just want to store btc.
But if you buy such derivative,the entity that owns the real btc that backs that derivative might scam buy.
This is just another level of centralization.
As it has the potential to contribute big to the world, the large scale centralized networks try to be the early investors. In such a way not only Wall Street or CBOE, majority of the financial institutions were into the crypto. Already most of the financial institutions have invested big into crypto indirectly, as the direct involvement will ruin their business stature.
and actually it good start for cryptocurrency market to recoverey its price.and one of richest  man in the world already be the seed investors in BAKKT , and i think it will attract more billionaire to invest their money into cryptocurrency.it just only about time like Binance's CEO said.dont forget to FIDELITY already in final test.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1963
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
February 11, 2019, 02:41:59 AM
#17
In a way, we already have this in the form of Bitcoin Futures, " Futures trading gives new investors the choice to bet against Bitcoin and also allows them to settle contracts in dollars, boosting their liquidity. Plus, Bitcoin futures allows investors to trade off the cryptocurrency without actually owning it. This protects them from any volatility in the real-time spot market." - Source : http://theconversation.com/how-bitcoin-futures-trading-could-burst-the-cryptocurrencys-bubble-88971

The latest submissions to the SEC are in the form of Bitcoin ETFs , because they do not want to worry about the security or storage of those bitcoins.

This opens up institutional investment into Bitcoin, but it is similar to the "certificates" that you mentioned with Gold and Silver in your post.

Is this risky for the investor? Yes.  
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 1214
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
February 11, 2019, 02:24:12 AM
#16
Hey guys. I'm very active on Quora. There a great many people are predicting tgat cryptos will get bigger soon as Wall Street is working to get invested in cryptos. They all think that once banks bring their massive funds into crypto, that the price will go sky high.

I'm not so optimist. I think Wall Street getting into Bitcoin can only mean bad things. Mainly rehypotecation and paper bitcoin allowing countless people to invest in Bitcoin 'certificates' rather than owning actual Bitcoin.

How do you guys feel about that?
You think Wall Street money getting pumped into Bitcoin can be a good thing?

I for one only see bad stuff down that road. Bitcoin  is supposed to be the death of Wall Street, not it's instrument.

Your thoughts?

It's not only Wall Street.It's the CBOE and CME that want bitcoin derivatives.The whole Bakkt project is about bitcoin futures/derivatives.This is what the institutional investors want.I guess that they just want to store btc.
But if you buy such derivative,the entity that owns the real btc that backs that derivative might scam buy.
This is just another level of centralization.
As it has the potential to contribute big to the world, the large scale centralized networks try to be the early investors. In such a way not only Wall Street or CBOE, majority of the financial institutions were into the crypto. Already most of the financial institutions have invested big into crypto indirectly, as the direct involvement will ruin their business stature.
hero member
Activity: 3150
Merit: 937
February 11, 2019, 01:57:21 AM
#15
Hey guys. I'm very active on Quora. There a great many people are predicting tgat cryptos will get bigger soon as Wall Street is working to get invested in cryptos. They all think that once banks bring their massive funds into crypto, that the price will go sky high.

I'm not so optimist. I think Wall Street getting into Bitcoin can only mean bad things. Mainly rehypotecation and paper bitcoin allowing countless people to invest in Bitcoin 'certificates' rather than owning actual Bitcoin.

How do you guys feel about that?
You think Wall Street money getting pumped into Bitcoin can be a good thing?

I for one only see bad stuff down that road. Bitcoin  is supposed to be the death of Wall Street, not it's instrument.

Your thoughts?

It's not only Wall Street.It's the CBOE and CME that want bitcoin derivatives.The whole Bakkt project is about bitcoin futures/derivatives.This is what the institutional investors want.I guess that they just want to store btc.
But if you buy such derivative,the entity that owns the real btc that backs that derivative might scam buy.
This is just another level of centralization.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1343
February 11, 2019, 01:54:21 AM
#14
On simple terms wall street or institutional investors i imagine may not
be interested in creating a wallet, buying their bitcoin and securing that
wallet for future liquidation or trading just like I imagine they are not
interested in buying, storing, securing, transporting and trading actual
gold bars.

So many people are only interested in institutional investors coming into
bitcoin investing in order to give themselves big returns, which may not
happen. A lot of people thought this when the "futures" trading started.
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 26
February 11, 2019, 01:01:39 AM
#13

If wall street enters a coin, I think this is extraordinary

Okay.  Let me explain something here.
When you borrow 200,000$ from the bank to buy a home, they don't actually give you a briefcase with 200,000$ cash in it. In fact, they don't even have to have any money in their vaults to loan it to you. What they do is they write down that you owe them 200,000$. It's just an entry on their ledger.

And the guy you buy the house from, he doesn't get 200,000$ in a briefcase either. The bank just adds that amount on their ledger.

I'm not even joking here. This is actually written into law and it's called fractional reserve banking. A.k.a. the ability for the bank to loan out 200$ when they only have 10$ in their vault.

This is why your bank will give you a really hard time if you try to cash out a large enough sum of money. They'll say you could be a suspected terrorist or drug dealer. And they will try really hard to make you change your mind. In fact, here in Canada, it's actually illegal to walk around with that much cash in your wallet or in your car.

The bank won't have a problem with you if you try to deposit a million$ in cash. But if you try to withdraw just 10,000$ out of that million, you might be a terrorist.

Banks are actually terrified of the idea that everybody suddenly decide to withdraw their money in cash. Simply because they don't have it. And so they would have to tell you you can't withdraw your money. This is called a run on banks. When the banks are not capable of giving you the money you deposited in your account.

Now take this idea over to your investment broker. When you call him up and you tell him you want to invest some of your money in gold, he never actually sends you a gold bar for you to keep under your pillow. What he will do is give you paper gold. That is, he will give you a gold certificate with a serial number on it. And he will tell you that this is the serial number of your gold bar.

And he will tell you that your gold is stored safely in a vault somewhere. And every month he will charge you a small fee for your gold storage. Now the average Joe might think he owns a gold bar but he doesn't. Possession is nine tenth of the law. In other words, ,if you don't hold it in your hand, you don't own it. So the only thing that the average Joe owns is a piece of paper, an IOU for a gold bar, nothing else.

But what your broker doesn't tell you is that he is selling the same paper gold to 10 or 20 other people. So an other 20 other people are walking around thinking they own the same gold bar as you do. And most interestingly, they all pay monthly storage fees for that same gold bar.

Now, naturally the average Joe thinks that the more people invest in gold, the more the price will go up. But in fact, with paper golf, the more people invest in gold, the more worthless it becomes.

After all, gold is valuable because it's rare. Not everyone  is able to walk around with a gold bar in their coat. So that's why it's so expensive to own gold.

But if everyone is walking around with a gold certificate in their coat, than suddenly gold doesn't look like it's so rare and valuable anymore.

The more you buy gold certificates, the lower the price of gold will get.

Some people call this a form of fractional reserve banking. Others call it rehypotecation. And yes, it's legal too.

Do you see now why I don't think Wall Street and banks getting involved in Bitcoin is a good idea?

Your bank and your broker will never give you actual keys for your coin. They'll just give you a Bitcoin certificate.

Bitcoin is the revolution against greedy crooked bankers and brokers. It's not supposed to be one of their tools for profit and control.
member
Activity: 364
Merit: 10
FABA
February 10, 2019, 10:57:49 PM
#12

If wall street enters a coin, I think this is extraordinary, remember that on Wall Street there are many stock indicators that are a reference for the protection of the world market. This will greatly affect the region and develop stock exchanges and Crypto.
Of course Wall Stret takes this step by considering all its considerations.
This will have a tremendous impact on Crypto, and this is a special advantage for Bitcoin, This can help reduce the volatility of the price of digital currencies and will pave the way for digital currencies to be accepted as a payment tool for everyday transactions.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
February 10, 2019, 04:42:59 PM
#11
Hey guys. I'm very active on Quora. There a great many people are predicting tgat cryptos will get bigger soon as Wall Street is working to get invested in cryptos. They all think that once banks bring their massive funds into crypto, that the price will go sky high.

People have been saying that for many years. It's an unrealistic way of framing things. It's not like on a specific date, a faucet gets turned on and all of a sudden, there's Wall Street money flooding the market, BTC to $5 Billion per coin!

That's not how markets work and it's definitely not how Wall Street works. Institutional money has been trickling into the crypto markets for several years now. That's undeniable fact. This trickle will continue to grow over time, and not necessarily in the spot markets. Will new custody solutions or regulated markets help? Sure, but again, we're not going to the moon tomorrow because of it.

I'm not so optimist. I think Wall Street getting into Bitcoin can only mean bad things. Mainly rehypotecation and paper bitcoin allowing countless people to invest in Bitcoin 'certificates' rather than owning actual Bitcoin.

I agree. People underestimate the effect that leveraged paper trading and collateral rehypothecation can have on the spot market. The supply perceived by the market could be significantly diluted and the price obviously won't benefit from that.

How do you guys feel about that?
You think Wall Street money getting pumped into Bitcoin can be a good thing?

I for one only see bad stuff down that road. Bitcoin  is supposed to be the death of Wall Street, not it's instrument.

Your thoughts?

The jury is out. I'm not sure how things will work out. There's lots of potential for manipulation that will hurt retail investors like us though. On the other hand, if Bitcoin continues growing as a recognized store-of-value asset, there are other forces at play. Precious metal bugs and other speculators, even central banks eventually may want some exposure as a hedge. And they won't necessarily be content holding paper bitcoins. That could also have a powerful effect on the market.
hero member
Activity: 3038
Merit: 634
February 10, 2019, 04:21:06 PM
#10
It will be bigger soon definitely but it doesn't mean just because Wall Street is becoming involved with it, we have to celebrate. Crypto market had grown already and additional adoptions are a plus.

I for one only see bad stuff down that road. Bitcoin  is supposed to be the death of Wall Street, not it's instrument.
Same sentiment, we do feel the same thing on this. But we have to see that thing, there will be no motion if they won't get involved.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1402
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February 10, 2019, 03:16:00 PM
#9
I think Wall Street getting into Bitcoin can only mean bad things. Mainly rehypotecation and paper bitcoin allowing countless people to invest in Bitcoin 'certificates' rather than owning actual Bitcoin.
Bitcoin  is supposed to be the death of Wall Street, not it's instrument.
If we are talking about something like futures contracts, then yeah, probably nothing good for bitcoin, as futures kind of ignore the natural flaw of events and the real prices. If we are talking about traders actually buying bitcoin on exchanges with the demand-offer driven price - well, it surely can help the market recover and the prices climb up, but I don't think even this is a good thing. I am concerned that the stock traders don't really give a shit about what they buy or sell. They are focused only on profits. So, these people will easily dump bitcoin once when they feel they can get most of it, which can trigger a bearish trend even worse than the one we already have.
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