Intellectual Property - In All Fairness! - page 19.

MoonShadow

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Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 04:24:00 PM

I have my own thoughts on this, but I need to hear yours. So, why is sex harmful?

Mostly likely a latent cultural influence of Anglican moral code. I'm sure he'll see the error of his ways once Sharia law dominates in the UK. After all, The Prophet married an eight year old in his 50's; what right does he have to intervene when the law says that a man of the Koran can take the child daughter of an infidel such as himself?

(I have no doubt that the sarcasm will be entirely missed by Hawker, the cognative dissonance must be terrrible.)

MoonShadow

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Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 04:16:00 PM

EDIT: Link for Moonshadow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society

That's not an answer, it's a link. Even if you believed it word for word, there are at least three different definitions of that one term in that article, which are all loose definitions and generally mutuall exclusive. If society gets to decide, how does one decide what society actually is? If it is the voting public, then children are not part of society? If it is parliment, then are you part of society? If society is defined by established national borders, do you still think you have a valid opinion about anything in mine?

Rassah

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Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 04:23:17 PM

Answered earlier. If 10s of 1000s of people say that giving head to priests as kids damaged them, I'm inclined to take their word on it.

Is "because that's the way it is" and "because that's what I've been told" the status quo for your answers to all the laws and reasons and why's? Do you even have your own opinions on matters, or are you just parroting others and feeling more sure of yourself because that's what others say too? (Without ever questioning why)

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:48:42 PM

Rassah asked in an effort to change the subject. Now he has accepted that if something is harmful, society has a right to intervene, I can answer. If the victim feels harmed, they are harmed. There are 10s of 1000s of Irish victims and it clear that they feel they were damaged by giving priests blow jobs.

I also never said "society" is government. A neighbor is society, and laws aren't needed to intervene.
Also, I am not asking for a number of claims, or other peoples opinions. I don't care if millions of people claim they were harmed. I just want to know why you believe sex is harmfull? What about it causes harm? You brought up this a an example of something that according to you is harm full, and thus should be illegal. I want to know how or why it causes harm.
I have my own thoughts on this, but I need to hear yours. So, why is sex harmful?

Hawker

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Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 04:18:44 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:38:49 PM

Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 03:00:43 PM

...snip...
That is the issue, because if there is absolutely no harm in it, then why stop it? And if there is harm in it, then probably yes, intervene. Thus the answer depends on you answering what you believe the harm in that situation to be.

And by the way, neither you nor society can answer your question decisively (14? 16? 18? Marriage?) so why are you expecting me to?
But, again, why do you believe sex is harmful?

So you accept that society has a right to intervene to prevent harm.

No, I do not. I never even implied such. Note "probably" is not "yes" and note that

Why do you believe sex is harmful?

Answered earlier. If 10s of 1000s of people say that giving head to priests as kids damaged them, I'm inclined to take their word on it.

Rassah

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Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:38:49 PM

Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 03:00:43 PM

...snip...
That is the issue, because if there is absolutely no harm in it, then why stop it? And if there is harm in it, then probably yes, intervene. Thus the answer depends on you answering what you believe the harm in that situation to be.

And by the way, neither you nor society can answer your question decisively (14? 16? 18? Marriage?) so why are you expecting me to?
But, again, why do you believe sex is harmful?

So you accept that society has a right to intervene to prevent harm.

No, I do not. I never even implied such. Note "probably" is not "yes" and note that

Why do you believe sex is harmful?

Hawker

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Quote from: BitterTea on October 12, 2011, 04:08:03 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:58:17 PM

In the UK, parliament gets to decide. I have no idea how its done where you live. Hopefully its a democracy so you get a say in these things.

Ah, so it's not "society", but the State. Hmm... I live in the U.S. and I'm pretty sure it's not a democracy, but a constitutional republic.

It's ok, I realize that to you "democracy" is just a magic word that invokes rainbows and unicorns.

If the State could decide, that would mean the Queen or her agents would decide. Parliament is simply the part of the State that represents the voting public.

In the US, assuming you have the vote, you have a say in what is called harmful and what actions are taken. The particular labels you use for it are off topic. In the case of intellectual property, where I live the part of the State that represents voters has decided that IP laws are a good thing and if you accept that society has a right to intervene to prevent harm, you should accept that society has a right to maintain IP laws.

EDIT: Link for Moonshadow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society

MoonShadow

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Hawker, please define the term "society" in this context.

MoonShadow

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Quote from: BitterTea on October 12, 2011, 04:08:03 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:58:17 PM

In the UK, parliament gets to decide. I have no idea how its done where you live. Hopefully its a democracy so you get a say in these things.

Ah, so it's not "society", but the State. Hmm... I live in the U.S. and I'm pretty sure it's not a democracy, but a constitutional republic.

It's ok, I realize that to you "democracy" is just a magic word that invokes rainbows and unicorns.

The United Kingdom isn't a democracy either, it's a parlimentary republic superimposed upon a constitutional monarchy. And it's still a constitutional monarchy. After all, where do the royals get their income?

BitterTea

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Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:58:17 PM

In the UK, parliament gets to decide. I have no idea how its done where you live. Hopefully its a democracy so you get a say in these things.

Ah, so it's not "society", but the State. Hmm... I live in the U.S. and I'm pretty sure it's not a democracy, but a constitutional republic.

It's ok, I realize that to you "democracy" is just a magic word that invokes rainbows and unicorns.

Hawker

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Quote from: BitterTea on October 12, 2011, 03:53:40 PM

...snip...

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:48:42 PM

Now he has accepted that if something is harmful, society has a right to intervene, I can answer.

Who gets to determine if something is harmful? How do you define "society", and how does "society" have rights?

..snip...

In the UK, parliament gets to decide. I have no idea how its done where you live. Hopefully its a democracy so you get a say in these things.

BitterTea

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Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:48:42 PM

Rassah asked in an effort to change the subject.

Bullshit. I think the master subject changer is projecting.

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:48:42 PM

Now he has accepted that if something is harmful, society has a right to intervene, I can answer.

Who gets to determine if something is harmful? How do you define "society", and how does "society" have rights?

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:48:42 PM

If the victim feels harmed, they are harmed.

So, by your logic, if the victim does not feel harmed, they are not harmed, and society has not right to intervene? Thus, if a 12 year old wants to have sex with a 50 year old, it's perfectly acceptable?

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 03:48:42 PM

In answer to your question, if letting someone use the Internet or a knife or a car is harmful, of course society has a right to prevent that harm. If its only you feel that way, of course you can't.

How many of us must be harmed by your obtuseness before we can use violence against you?

Pretty sure I already know the answer to this, but did you ever read the blog post I linked for you?

Hawker

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Quote from: BitterTea on October 12, 2011, 03:41:00 PM

Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 03:00:43 PM

But, again, why do you believe sex is harmful?

Hawker, stop being a hypocrite and answer the question.

If I believe that letting you use the internet is harmful, do I have a right to use violence to stop you?

Rassah asked in an effort to change the subject. Now he has accepted that if something is harmful, society has a right to intervene, I can answer. If the victim feels harmed, they are harmed. There are 10s of 1000s of Irish victims and it clear that they feel they were damaged by giving priests blow jobs.

In answer to your question, if letting someone use the Internet or a knife or a car is harmful, of course society has a right to prevent that harm. If its only you feel that way, of course you can't.

BitterTea

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Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 03:00:43 PM

But, again, why do you believe sex is harmful?

Hawker, stop being a hypocrite and answer the question.

If I believe that letting you use the internet is harmful, do I have a right to use violence to stop you?

Hawker

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Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 03:00:43 PM

...snip...
That is the issue, because if there is absolutely no harm in it, then why stop it? And if there is harm in it, then probably yes, intervene. Thus the answer depends on you answering what you believe the harm in that situation to be.

And by the way, neither you nor society can answer your question decisively (14? 16? 18? Marriage?) so why are you expecting me to?
But, again, why do you believe sex is harmful?

So you accept that society has a right to intervene to prevent harm.

Society feels that the loss of Intellectual Property would do harm. Just as it has a right to intervene when it sees damage due to sex abuse of minors, it has a right to intervene to prevent damage by loss of IP. On your own logic IP laws are well within society's rights.

Rassah

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Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 02:54:56 PM

Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 02:52:18 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 02:48:06 PM

Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 02:36:35 PM

It doesn't have anything to do with rights. Everyone has a right to consent at any age. Not everyone has the ABILITY to consent. And a state can't determine when someone can consent, either. That is different for each individual.

Let me ask you something. Why do you believe that sex is harmful, at any age, if done with consent? Just curious.

So you acknowledge that there are times when a person consents but really we have to overlook it as they did not have the capacity to consent.

Under those circumstances, society has a right to intervene doesn't it? For example, if a man is proposing having sex with a seven year old who has verbally consented? Or do you let it happen?

You didn't answer my question. Why is sex harmful? I can't answer your question without knowing where you stand on this (were you one of those priests ot 7 year olds)?

That isn't the issue. The issue is at what point society has a right to intervene. For example, if a man is proposing having sex with a seven year old who has verbally consented? Or do you let it happen?

That is the issue, because if there is absolutely no harm in it, then why stop it? And if there is harm in it, then probably yes, intervene. Thus the answer depends on you answering what you believe the harm in that situation to be.

And by the way, neither you nor society can answer your question decisively (14? 16? 18? Marriage?) so why are you expecting me to?
But, again, why do you believe sex is harmful?

Hawker

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Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 02:52:18 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 02:48:06 PM

Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 02:36:35 PM

It doesn't have anything to do with rights. Everyone has a right to consent at any age. Not everyone has the ABILITY to consent. And a state can't determine when someone can consent, either. That is different for each individual.

Let me ask you something. Why do you believe that sex is harmful, at any age, if done with consent? Just curious.

So you acknowledge that there are times when a person consents but really we have to overlook it as they did not have the capacity to consent.

Under those circumstances, society has a right to intervene doesn't it? For example, if a man is proposing having sex with a seven year old who has verbally consented? Or do you let it happen?

You didn't answer my question. Why is sex harmful? I can't answer your question without knowing where you stand on this (were you one of those priests ot 7 year olds)?

That isn't the issue. The issue is at what point society has a right to intervene. For example, if a man is proposing having sex with a seven year old who has verbally consented? Or do you let it happen?

Rassah

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Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 02:48:06 PM

Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 02:36:35 PM

It doesn't have anything to do with rights. Everyone has a right to consent at any age. Not everyone has the ABILITY to consent. And a state can't determine when someone can consent, either. That is different for each individual.

Let me ask you something. Why do you believe that sex is harmful, at any age, if done with consent? Just curious.

So you acknowledge that there are times when a person consents but really we have to overlook it as they did not have the capacity to consent.

Under those circumstances, society has a right to intervene doesn't it? For example, if a man is proposing having sex with a seven year old who has verbally consented? Or do you let it happen?

You didn't answer my question. Why is sex harmful? I can't answer your question without knowing where you stand on this (were you one of those priests ot 7 year olds)?

Hawker

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Quote from: Rassah on October 12, 2011, 02:36:35 PM

...snip...

Quote from: Hawker on October 12, 2011, 02:24:42 PM

Or is it your position that there is a point where a person does not have the right to consent to sex? Obviously at that point, society has a right to intervene and rescue the child.

It doesn't have anything to do with rights. Everyone has a right to consent at any age. Not everyone has the ABILITY to consent. And a state can't determine when someone can consent, either. That is different for each individual.

Let me ask you something. Why do you believe that sex is harmful, at any age, if done with consent? Just curious.

So you acknowledge that there are times when a person consents but really we have to overlook it as they did not have the capacity to consent.

Under those circumstances, society has a right to intervene doesn't it? For example, if a man is proposing having sex with a seven year old who has verbally consented? Or do you let it happen?

Rassah

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Quote from: MoonShadow on October 12, 2011, 02:38:32 PM

This thread has seriously wandered off topic, and has entered deep into Valley Creepy.

Mmmm.. rights are rights. If these guys can't understand that your rights don't come from your parents or your politician, no point in trying to explain IP rights. Though the "gotcha" question attempts do seem to end up being creepy. Still waiting for Hawker to swing this over into rape, or incest territory. Anything to make the other side lose by feeling uncomfortable I guess. Sometimes I'm honestly tempted to troll hard in reply...

MoonShadow

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This thread has seriously wandered off topic, and has entered deep into Valley Creepy.

Topic: Intellectual Property - In All Fairness! - page 19. (Read 105875 times)