Intellectual Property - In All Fairness! - page 26.

FredericBastiat

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 03:26:53 PM

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 03:23:58 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 03:18:55 PM

Why bother? There are plenty Acts of Parliament that do that.

Why should parliament care about what I do with my dog anymore than they do with my kitchen table?

Remember it's just an animal, it's not human. Big difference.

You're really behind the times. Even in the 18th century, forward thinkers would be in disagreement with you.

You mean the same ones that believed and practiced slavery?

FredericBastiat

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 03:27:23 PM

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 03:26:47 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 03:20:25 PM

Animal torture is different from dining table torture. Cut the legs of your dining table if you want to make it shorter. Nobody cares. If you want to cut the legs of your dog to make him shorter, people will care. I'm surprised others need to point out the extreme differences between owing a dining table and owning a dog.

Torture should only apply to humans, not animals, otherwise you could arbitrarily confiscate my property. Stop playing the animal torture card, it's annoying.

Seriously?

Damn serious.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 03:26:47 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 03:20:25 PM

Animal torture is different from dining table torture. Cut the legs of your dining table if you want to make it shorter. Nobody cares. If you want to cut the legs of your dog to make him shorter, people will care. I'm surprised others need to point out the extreme differences between owing a dining table and owning a dog.

Torture should only apply to humans, not animals, otherwise you could arbitrarily confiscate my property. Stop playing the animal torture card, it's annoying.

You don't have the right to tell people what they "should" do. Torture of animals is repugnant - if that's what you are doing then you forfeit your right to have an animal.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 03:23:58 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 03:18:55 PM

Why bother? There are plenty Acts of Parliament that do that.

Why should parliament care about what I do with my dog anymore than they do with my kitchen table?

Remember it's just an animal, it's not human. Big difference.

But you are human and you don't have the right to torture dogs. Your right to own a dog was given to you by society subject to your not torturing it. Parliament is the voice of the people and people do care about cruelty to animals so parliament will either care or its members will be sacked.

FirstAscent

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 03:26:47 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 03:20:25 PM

Animal torture is different from dining table torture. Cut the legs of your dining table if you want to make it shorter. Nobody cares. If you want to cut the legs of your dog to make him shorter, people will care. I'm surprised others need to point out the extreme differences between owing a dining table and owning a dog.

Torture should only apply to humans, not animals, otherwise you could arbitrarily confiscate my property. Stop playing the animal torture card, it's annoying.

Seriously?

FirstAscent

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 03:23:58 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 03:18:55 PM

Why bother? There are plenty Acts of Parliament that do that.

Why should parliament care about what I do with my dog anymore than they do with my kitchen table?

Remember it's just an animal, it's not human. Big difference.

You're really behind the times. Even in the 18th century, forward thinkers would be in disagreement with you.

FredericBastiat

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 03:20:25 PM

Animal torture is different from dining table torture. Cut the legs of your dining table if you want to make it shorter. Nobody cares. If you want to cut the legs of your dog to make him shorter, people will care. I'm surprised others need to point out the extreme differences between owing a dining table and owning a dog.

Torture should only apply to humans, not animals, otherwise you could arbitrarily confiscate my property. Stop playing the animal torture card, it's annoying.

FredericBastiat

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 03:18:55 PM

Why bother? There are plenty Acts of Parliament that do that.

Why should parliament care about what I do with my dog anymore than they do with my kitchen table?

Remember it's just an animal, it's not human. Big difference.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 03:20:37 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 03:12:59 PM

Move to Syria then - a violent minority runs the place, they kill all who protest and you'd love it.

Personally I think the castration and killing of opponents is distasteful but if that is your ideal, get on the plane to Damascus asap.

No they aren't minorities. There are a majority of violent individuals operating as gangs in small groups. Not the same.

Never said violence was ideal, just easier to deal with when it occurs in smaller numbers.

The Syrian regime is based on a group that are a religious group called Alevi and constitute 15% of the population. If that isn't a minority, then what is?

FredericBastiat

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 03:12:59 PM

Move to Syria then - a violent minority runs the place, they kill all who protest and you'd love it.

Personally I think the castration and killing of opponents is distasteful but if that is your ideal, get on the plane to Damascus asap.

No they aren't minorities. There are a majority of violent individuals operating as gangs in small groups. Not the same.

Never said violence was ideal, just easier to deal with when it occurs in smaller numbers.

FirstAscent

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 03:17:54 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 03:15:17 PM

Nope. If you are going to be cruel to the dog, you will have it taken off you. You don't have a right to gratuitously torture animals.

Define animal torture.

Animal torture is different from dining table torture. Cut the legs of your dining table if you want to make it shorter. Nobody cares. If you want to cut the legs of your dog to make him shorter, people will care. I'm surprised others need to point out the extreme differences between owing a dining table and owning a dog.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 03:17:54 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 03:15:17 PM

Nope. If you are going to be cruel to the dog, you will have it taken off you. You don't have a right to gratuitously torture animals.

Define torture.

Why bother? There are plenty Acts of Parliament that do that.

FirstAscent

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: BitterTea on October 11, 2011, 03:02:12 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 02:44:21 PM

Out of curiosity, who is 'we'?

FirstAscent casts Deflect

It's SUPER effective

Call it what you want. There is no intention of deflection. I just want to know.

FredericBastiat

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 03:15:17 PM

Nope. If you are going to be cruel to the dog, you will have it taken off you. You don't have a right to gratuitously torture animals.

Define animal torture.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 01:21:39 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 12:18:57 PM

Wrong. Demonstrate how they're the same. As an example, demonstrate how, because you handed Joe ten one hundred dollar bills in exchange for Rover, you are under the belief that such an act accords you the exact same rights as handing Sally ten one hundred dollar bills for her refrigerator.

Because both types of objects (even though one is biological) were sold to me as-is. Therefore I have every right to utilize them as I please (the exception being if they were human).

Nope. If you are going to be cruel to the dog, you will have it taken off you. You don't have a right to gratuitously torture animals.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 01:01:15 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 12:48:18 PM

I agree. In fact in Italy and in Boston, sometimes the mafia has effectively won elections and used taxation coupled with corruption as an easy alternative to intimidation. But the fact that a violent minority uses force does not mean that the peaceful majority should not use force. In a democracy, if you break the law you do tend to find that people turn against you and punishment comes along. The alternative is surrender to the violent minority.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barron's cruelty sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." --C.S. Lewis

I'll take the violent minority any day of the week. It's definitely better than the alternative.

Move to Syria then - a violent minority runs the place, they kill all who protest and you'd love it.

Personally I think the castration and killing of opponents is distasteful but if that is your ideal, get on the plane to Damascus asap.

BitterTea

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 252

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 02:44:21 PM

Out of curiosity, who is 'we'?

FirstAscent casts Deflect

It's SUPER effective

FirstAscent

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Rassah on October 11, 2011, 01:58:03 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 12:18:57 PM

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 11:54:29 AM

Wrong, owning a sofa is exactly like owning land (except mobility), like owning a dog, like owning a DVD. Making IP laws, dog laws and DVD laws different distorts the meaning and interpretation of property and makes it inconsistent in it's utility and logical construction.

Wrong. Demonstrate how they're the same. As an example, demonstrate how, because you handed Joe ten one hundred dollar bills in exchange for Rover, you are under the belief that such an act accords you the exact same rights as handing Sally ten one hundred dollar bills for her refrigerator.

Wait... that's exactly what we did when we got our new refrigerator, and when we bought our dog (number of hundred dollar bills varied). Actually, when we bought our past 4 dogs and 3 cats (they die of old age after 15+ years). Was there supposed to be something different?

Out of curiosity, who is 'we'?

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 11, 2011, 12:18:57 PM

Quote from: FredericBastiat on October 11, 2011, 11:54:29 AM

Wrong, owning a sofa is exactly like owning land (except mobility), like owning a dog, like owning a DVD. Making IP laws, dog laws and DVD laws different distorts the meaning and interpretation of property and makes it inconsistent in it's utility and logical construction.

Wrong. Demonstrate how they're the same. As an example, demonstrate how, because you handed Joe ten one hundred dollar bills in exchange for Rover, you are under the belief that such an act accords you the exact same rights as handing Sally ten one hundred dollar bills for her refrigerator.

Wait... that's exactly what we did when we got our new refrigerator, and when we bought our dog (number of hundred dollar bills varied). Actually, when we bought our past 4 dogs and 3 cats (they die of old age after 15+ years). Was there supposed to be something different?

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: Hawker on October 11, 2011, 07:48:40 AM

Quote from: Rassah on October 10, 2011, 10:49:51 PM

Quote from: FirstAscent on October 10, 2011, 10:42:29 PM

Not clear on something - how exactly does the enforcement of IP rights lead to slavery?

When grandma downloads 2,500 songs illegally, the RIAA breaks down her door, she is taken to court, and is fined $250,000. Since grandma obviously doesn't have that kind of cash, she is taken to jail instead, where she is forced to work off her "debt to society" by either picking up litter off the side of the roads, or by breaking rocks with sledgehammers.
Slavery.

Um no. Its a civil action so there is no prospect of jail.

Hmm. I guess when I saw a lot of FBI warnings about how copying this and that is a federal offence, punishable by up to 5 years in prison and a $250,00 fine, I got the wrong idea http://goo.gl/RIa1q

Topic: Intellectual Property - In All Fairness! - page 26. (Read 105893 times)