Topic: IOHK Research and Scorex ARE NOT working with Waves - page 2. (Read 34016 times)

this thread has gone totally out of hand 

Since when respecting laws (protecting banksters and harming poor ones) became good ethics?

With that I agree, they will let everyone do as they please, but than just tax them accordingly.
enforcing worldwide spread is not easy, and perhaps not doable.
They tried doing it with porn in the 90's, file sharing in 2000's and so on...
and servers kept over heating and got fried up

I still dont understand why your'e calling waves a scam only cuz it made an ico (like everyone now).
Its devs are legit, real names with real work behind them.
So they thought charles and kushti are friends which will support them, and were wrong, apologized and moved on.
everyone got their asses covered legaly ofc..
so if you think all ico's are scams, you got lots of work now not just on waves bro

Please clearify. tnx

Btw, you should study the history of how the government first allows the public to run amok, then it steps in with regulation and makes examples of the egregious cases. Remember the government has a monopoly on crime and they do enforce that monopoly.

I do say DASH will also perhaps be prosecuted.

I also added to my prior post.

You'd be suprised to know how much contact I have with Filipinos, I admire them!
Even tho they are "less advanced" than my country.

and I added some more points to my post, would love to hear your comment on the grey area

Logically you should separate your objective research of the law from this nonsense attempt to try to frame me as a racist.

I've been living in the Philippines mostly since I was 26 years old. I will be 51 in June. I know about filipinos much better than you do. Filipinos even criticize themselves for admiring the USA too much. I tried in the past to argue to normal filipinos that the USA is really not the paradise they think it is on television.

The word 'supreme' was not my choice. It was the choice of the troll in this thread who was trying to shift the discussion to one of trying to frame me as a racist to deflect attention away from the scam Waves.

I would rather say that filipinos are envious of their countrymen who are able to migrate to the USA, because they think we have better governance and more economic opportunity. They criticize their own countrymen for refusing to follow even basic laws such as not littering, not urinating in the road, making illegal U turns in the middle of a 6 lane highway, driving the wrong direction on the highway at high speeds, and just about every way you can imagine that filipinos ignore their own laws. perhaps they learned it from 400 years of occupation by the Spanish. At least the USA built them schools and let them go independent with a minimum of fuss.

Having said that, they say the USA is lonely and they love their home and their culture. They do criticize the USA for being too liberated, too much divorce, and for losing some of the conservative family values that are so cherished by filipinos.

One thing you don't understand about filipinos and perhaps the most important fact about their culture, is that filipinos first and foremost want to have fun every day. And they love to share everything with each other, including strangers and foreigners. So they don't hate foreigners. They actually want to admire you. Even young boys will become your best friend if you play sports with them or otherwise be a true friend and guiding hand (but the fucking pedophiles take advantage!). So if you are up for a party, they are always ready. You will never feel lonely and they hate to be alone. They always want a zillion people in the house and as much talking and noise going on as possible. Generally speaking. There are always exceptions of course in any culture.

As for the USA, it is a mixed bag now. The melting pot was held together by economic opportunity. But now the country is a mix of socialism, bible belt veiled racism/fundamentalism, libertarianism, feminism, militias, etc.. As Armstrong has predicted, the USA will break apart into regions. It can not sustain the melting pot once the economic opportunity begins to collapse after 2018. This is what socialism killed. Well we were never really united, it was just a mirage of immigrants suppressing their own cultures and language when they arrived so they could attain economic advancement. This was because we were in the past discriminating against those who didn't adopt our culture. But political correctness killed that and so now the USA will fracture.

This is fact.

Liberals hate the damned facts. But facts are facts.

P.S. As for the European Union ... shudder ... there is actually more opportunity in Russia and Eastern Europe, but we'll have to see if they can get their act together in terms of rule of law and not rule by an oligarchy and then taking out their frustrations on us in the west. We have enough of our own problems and so can't be a target of your angst at your own corrupt system.

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Edit:

TPTB,

I took you seriously and read for hours about this subject, which mostly lawyers can come up with answers to.
First of all, you lost all my trust when saying, "even the filipinos agree the US is supreme"
So, YOU ARE NOT SUPREME, when I see americans I see stupidity, this is the truth for the young generation where I come from.
You have idiotic presidents, corrupted to your source, and think your'e better than all,
And MAYBE you are in some ways (and so are budahists) , but as soon as you think that and say it, you become less than all humans.
BUT saying that is racist, even IF someone thinks so. Its offending for 200 million people.
And when your'e saying US is supreme, its offending 6.8 BILLION people.
See my point?

So after researching this law issues that you mentioned.
I see that you were/are hurt in some way, and want scammers to begone in someway,
So you fight "the good fight". which you maybe doing..

To conclude your'e a little right but alot more wrong.
crypto ICO's are GREY area and will remain so for much longer time, and when that time comes (years),
There will not be a witchhunt like you imply, cause this is a worldwide phenomenon and as long as these companies will use the funds to pay devs and developments,
And those coins/token will be used on the platforms for various actions, There aint nothing wrong with it, for now.
And if there will be, it will be taxing not prosecuting, imho.

Why dont you say DASH will be prosecuted for instamine, and bitcoin as well for that matter?
this is a word (instamine) gone from our community, and its better this way.
If we had it your way, there wil be nothing, as devs need to work 2 jobs to develop a service.
Sorry but none of us can afford not to work,
and I think you fail to understand that its a funding to the project's salaries for years to come.
Grey funding, but still not ilegal.
If it's illegal in the us, so your citizens must be responsible for their actions.
Not knowing your law doesnt relieve you from punishment.
The world doesnt have to comply to US' all the time, right? if you came from a different country, you would talk diffrently.


Disclaimer: IANR / IANA (im not russian, im not american)  

I wish you all the best, TPTB, and for you to find some greater truth than what you see.
and remember not to fight the wars of The powers that be, by mistake.

Charles If I were you I'd delete this post completely or make it self-moderated, at least.

Pumping this up because every other post has been useless.

STOP TRYING TO BURY THE IMPORTANT POSTS FFS

Going to agree with this and here he comes with his US laws bullshit on  crypto-currency forum to a project which didn't market to the US, but marketed in English. From this he made the direct connection that the Russians want to take US money again with MLMs and Ponzis.

I want to make one clarification. I stated upthread that I had not attempted to communicate with Charles since we last had some regular communication back when he had left Bitshares and was searching for his next major project. I want to clarify that I have sent some PMs to Charles, such as recent one with a link to a more detailed summary of the health saga I went through since 2013. Also I sent him a recent message commending on one of the points in his recent January presentation about the importance of block chains. My point upthread in alluding to that I am close by to IOHK's Hong Kong office is not a request to meet. It is just saying hello and btw I am nearby.

I also had sent Charles one incoherent message some months ago in Skype and he responded "what is this?" and I said "related to my health and apologies just ignore it because I know your busy" or something close to that.

Some background information is important for readers (and Charles) to understand my thinking. Originally back in afair 2014 before he formed Ethereum, I briefly text chatted with Charles about my ideas for a crypto-currency project, but I informed Charles I wasn't ready to launch a project that would raise a lot of money and be a big thing with so many mouths to feed. I told him I wanted to prod along by myself for the time being or maybe with one other engineer, but not some big production.

When I saw what was happening with Ethereum, I was so happy I hadn't gone that direction. I and many others here knew that was going to a clusterfuck waste of money. So for the longest time, I felt that I would not want to work with Charles because I don't like that style of developing a software company. You don't put a 20 year old guy in charge of $15 million. Duh. And surround him with so much overhead. Cripes I created Neocept WordUp at that age all by myself in my bedroom coding night and day and sleeping under my desk with no funding until after I shipped the software.

So while I remained what I consider friendly with Charles despite no ongoing communication, I had this wariness about whether I would ever get involved professionally with Charles, although I also respect some of his insights and the way he presents talks. And I also like Charles from what I remember he is a very amiable and also an intelligent, honest person.

So recently when I discovered Charles had tried to advise Ethereum to blacklist USA non-accredited investors and when they refused he left Ethereum, my respect for him rose immensely. And I started to think, "hey maybe I could work with Charles, he has good ethics".

At the moment I am not speaking as the CEO of any company, thus I don't need to be diplomatic. I can speak frankly as a person. Of course I understand Charles has to be concerned with political interpretations and thus is more careful with his words. If he is offended by my frank statements herein, so be it. My work is continuing and I can't see any reason I need to be associated with IOHK. I was just saying hello.

My posts in this thread reflect my true angst about crypto-currency being seen as nefarious by the mainstream. We can't get out of that gutter unless we stop making excuses for scammers. I am also pissed to see that crypto-currency speculation has enabled a means by which those who come from places that have less respect for the rule of law can scam westerners on the other side of the globe. This is all setting up for a globalized regulation, which is coming...

Yet I also see a former research scientist from Microsoft involved in selling AMP vaporware tokens for Synereo. It is the new wild west of laissez-faire capitalism. But it does appear to be quite illegal. We will see how it all comes crashes down and who ends up with jail time years down the line.

I see mprep (moderator) deleted a lot of the noise from the thread (including my responses) as I requested that he do. I had reported the ad hominem attacks which were devoid of any information, and asked the moderator to delete my replies and the attacks.


Trying to discern statistical facts is not racism. If I say that blacks in the USA are much more likely to commit murder, that is a statistic fact. It doesn't make me a racist. I attended an elementary in Baton Rouge where my sister and I were the only non-negro kids in the entire school. Your racism attack won't stick on me. Find another excuse.

I already stated upthread that my sample size is too small to draw conclusions, but that my first exposure to Russians and Eastern Europeans has come in crypto-currency (and in my attempt to hire a virtual programmer via Upwork.com). I had the same experience at Upwork as David Zimbeck explained recently which is they basically scam you the employer. I see these Russian and Eastern European developers creating these centralized MLM marketing scams such as Iota, Waves, Nxt, etc.. Then again, we do have the Larimers as an American outlier with the Bitshares MLM scam, but I could see early on in my forum discussions with Daniel and Charles back when they were both on Bitshares that Daniel was always proposing designs that were the antithesis of decentralization such as his long-standing crap about paying a net dividend to token holders.

Yesterday I happenstanced across the following statement from Martin Armstrong who was the world's largest hedge fund manager ever, managing some $2 trillion or so for the Japanese Postal fund and others.


So kushti I hope and think you are an exception and perhaps with Charles' guidance, or that my sample size was too small and that most Russians and Eastern Europeans have a law abiding culture. I am lacking enough data but I have not been thrilled with experience thus far interacting with people from your side of the globe. And your reaction here adds to that bad experience. Why not just be more frank with yourself and admit you made the mistake of associating with a guy (Sasha, or a group?) who is pushing some scammy ICO on Western investors because for sure he can't sell that shit in Russian to Russians, and ostensibly without them breaking his legs after the crap implodes down the line.

I know there is a lot of highly educated people in your corner of the world, and I think it is damn shame if they can't use that skill productively without trying to take advantage of others in zero-sum games.

It seems you are trying to do something productive and honest with Charles' lead and if so, then I applaud your effort. And you have my best wishes. But please cut out the bullshit and be honest with yourself. Don't blame your poor discernment on me. You should have seen from the getgo that Sasha was trouble and avoided him. He is apparently not very technically talented and is a mere promoter and talker.

I hate bullshit. Just state the way it really is.

One of the very important lessons to learn in life, is that the people you don't keep far away from you, can be your more devastating mistake. In running a business, selecting the right people to associate with is critical. Associating with fly-by-night Russian pumpers is obviously not going to reflect very well on IOHK's prospects for the future. First we have Charles associating with the Russian Vitalik who has wasted $15 million and then ETH has been pumped on some hype that breaks Nash equilibrium, to raise more $millions to waste.

I was commending Charles' on making a solid decision to not have his company associated with those who occupy the gutter and have no respect for international legal issues. If Charles doesn't want to be associated with my frank comments, so be it. I don't mince my words. I am a straight shooter.

What a TPTB tool

Laws in the west? where?

Laws are only applied to the poor

Please help clear up any lingering confusion that may exist by answering the questions I posted earlier:

Boy I dont' quite know whether you're conscientiously wrote down that shockingly stupid and pretty racist crap or you're just a mindless zombie repeating stereotypes got during Crappy Nonsense Network (CNN) or other media paranoia consumption. Anyway I would like to suggest you to get rid of the brainwashing. I'm pretty sure my advise will be ignored though.

---------------

As I already mentioned we (me & Sasha, then Sasha & Charles, then three of us) had some calls. After the third one we also had an internal meeting and decided to wait for concrete tech requirements. Based on them that was my responsibility to make a report to Charles on whether it is reasonable to help Waves in some way or not.

I still don't know why my photo was on the team page. I was offline those days due to a baby delivery, and mostly offline now, so had no call with Sasha yet. Well, I'm in IOHK Research anyway.

Shelby would u please consider not turning Charles valuable topic into a youtube link posting session ?

Lets get back on topic here!


I quote the last important post

~CfA~

Ah no worries. Secret weapon is coming soon to turn them into pixie dust.

Like when he fuds a project because it doesn't compile (but tbh it probably would pass as grey area, he just stated that he thinks it wouldn't) to US laws while the project wasn't marketed as "US citizens please buy"? Or when he speaks as if this forum was US only? Or when he calls Russians scammers while the developer of wave is well known in the crypto community?

Seemed like a legit discussion until he entered.

This was where you lost it. That guy should have gone to the ignore list.
Look at where the topic was before and look at it now.

Your input was great and i was very interested on how it would develop, but then the subject that really matters was buried under a pile of bullshit by those trolls.
The usual gangbang when they dont like whats going on.