Topic: IOTA - page 755. (Read 1473233 times)

Woohoo! Sorry I couldn't help to keep asking because I own some Jinn assets.

edit - then bootstrapping of Iota network will be much likely with the help of Jinn's adoption. Make totally sense. need a massive marketing effort for jinn eventually. 

You have spoiled an announcement about hardware support of Iota. 

Of course. But you don't have to take their word for it, just sit down for a few weeks and go through technological journals and go through all the new innovations that are occuring RIGHT NOW. This is not about putting a chip in everything for the sake of putting a chip into everything, but virtually everything can be optimized and / or be used for new use-cases.


Yes, for DIRECT economic growth related to these devices. This misses the bigger picture and cumulative impact.


IOTA could very well be used by Cisco, but we have no relation directly to them (yet). But the wheels are in motion, we will kickstart this and then the community that forms around IOTA will continue it. There are a lot of use-cases that will be displayed more directly soon

Personally we are heavily invested in processor technology (developing a new kind of processor) that is being developed with IoT in mind, this is what lead us to realize that we had to utilize our expertise in crypto to develop something like IOTA, since it is absolutely needed for IoT and none of the current crypto projects solve microtransactions.

Will you program IOTA into Jinn chips to be able to make each chip to become a node?

No remote possibility of bias there right? You think Cisco might want to get contracts and sell gear by hyping its economic value?


Yes they are but Cisco defined its own metric in a way that makes the headline numbers even more obviously exaggerated hype:


On other words, the absolute maximum potential amount of value that is possible, not what even Cisco claims to expect to happen.

When annualized Cisco's (by their own definition optimistic) numbers represent a similarly tiny annual rate of <1% and probably well under 1/2%.

BTW, does the IOTA project have any relationship with Cisco that would suggest IOTA will be used in Cisco's (and its customers') IoT deployment efforts?

This is a business, you are free to leave whenever you want to. But today you can't if you don't have another job to go to, this is what I said earlier in the thread: today we live in a perpetual state of things that we HAVE TO DO despite of not WANTING to. The reason for this is the good ol' supply and demand that runs the world. My point is that as technology progresses the entire concept of supply will become more and more irrelevant.

We live in a universe with virtualy infinite resources. Now of course anno 2015, we are still stuck on planet earth with limited access to these resources, but as things become digital and automated there are certain things that we have virtually made infinite in supply. Even if you were the richest man on Earth 50 years ago, no amount could buy you a 70" OLED screen or direct access to all accumulated knowledge by mankind in the palm of your hand. Same goes for virtually everything. Electricity? Today we still need to get the majority of it through manual labour intensive means, but as solar, wind, nuclear, water etc. energy goes up, this too become more and more ubiquitous. As systems become more automated, people get more free time, more free time leads to more creativity and innovation as people cando what they really want. We ALL have more free time today than virtually anyone had in the 1990s. How we spend it is of course our own choice.

My point is that this will only continue and continue until we reach a point where we literally have an overabundance of everything (this is long term future, not short term). This will give us MORE freedom, not less, just like it always has.

The concern is of course for the 'transition period' that we are entering, where people lose their jobs when corporations optimize their supply chains, how will these people fare without jobs in this transition period? This is something that requires societal solutions.

Dude, I'm not a conspiracy theorist I'm a conspiracy analyst, lol.


You're lucky you don't work in an Amazon warehouse. http://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon-warehouse-jobs-push-workers-to-physical-limit/

Hah 'kool aid', what are you talking about? I am going by all the reports that currently exist for IoT. Here is another one from Cisco http://internetofeverything.cisco.com/sites/default/files/docs/en/ioe_public_sector_vas_white%20paper_121913final.pdf and here is another one from   Accenture https://www.accenture.com/us-en/insight-industrial-internet-of-things.aspx . Ballpark numbers are similar, bur vary.

As I alluded to earlier, total economic impact != wealth impact. The economic impact of say the internet does not convert easily into the actual wealth it has brought with it for users. Money is a fickle concept that is extremely hard to measure. What matters is life quality and production. 15 years ago you had CDs with 15 songs, now you got for all practical purposes infinite songs on every device. Media and entertainment has become completely ubiquitous which translates into immeasurable growth in the wealth of entertainment.  
To again draw a parallel back to the industrial revolution, it's impossible to measure how much it impacted society just by looking at the monetary numbers. Instead look at actual output and how it affects lives.

Here there is virtually no controversy among the people in the field, IoT (which is just an umbrella term for technological progression) will bring about wealth impact unlike what has ever been seen before.

As for the numbers in McKinsey report, they point out that improving supply chains is just one fraction of it. I suggest you read it again, this time in entirety.

Iota gives ability to do off-tangle payments which are known to only 2 parties.

How about you put down the kool aid and read it for the first time.

"could have a total economic impact of $3.9 trillion to $11.1 trillion per year in 2025"

"We also found that more than two-thirds of value will be generated in business-to-business settings"

That is 10 years away, so taken as an annual growth rate represents between 0.3% and 0.8% per year, assuming it even happens ("could"), and even then will be mostly boring things like supply chain management.

In this article, the author mentioned one of the biggest challenges for IoT is privacy and security issue - protecting company and customer data. How can IOTA help and do better in this area? 

What are you talking about? I am simply drawing a parallel, no need to go all ad hominem conspiracy theory.



I always wonder why people have this idea in their head that the world is always out to 'get them', chip them, trace them and then kill their spirits. Sorry I don't buy this narrative at all. Are there potentials for abuse as we become ever more reliant on technology? Of course, we have a plethora of examples to draw from. Are these organized efforts dehumanize us? No.



It has not been technologically possible for a long time. A lot of hardware and software is needed for this to become a seamless reality. Just because something was possible to prototype 10 years ago, does NOT mean it was ready for market. Bell Telephone essentially invented Skype in the 60s, but it was not possible to get mass adoption in the technological ecosystem of the time. Similarly the smartphone existed in the early 90s, but it was not suited for the market landscape of that era. Now with the new hardware sensors, acutators and software APIs, IoT is becoming feasible, which is why we are seeing people starting to adopt it. And this is why IOTA exists, it's another one of those bricks needed to make it a reality.


Yes, they are. These robots already communicate with their environment. And again: we're just at the beginning of this. It seems you believe that technological progression happens overnight. The smartphone was revolutionary, but it didn't happen overnight, in fact it was over a decade in development and had numerous iterative steps it needed to take before it had great impact. So just adopt some patience:)

You are trying to smear me by suggesting that because I criticize one technology I must be a luddite who is against all technology. This is very childish logic.


To suggest that anything is 'always the result' of anything is dogmatic and reveals a kind of pseudo-religious rather than rational attitude you seem to have. Also I explicitly mentioned human decision making not human labour. I have no problem automating human labour. Also what really scares me is not firing workers, its keeping them on, but chipped and tracked and with no scope for them to use their own initiative, creativity or even intelligence as every single part of their day with be monitored and prescribed in the name of efficiency.


This is emphatically not an example of a fridge which is smarter than me. It is an example of a fridge which thinks it is smarter than me but in actual practical use is definitely not, which is why people don't choose to buy this kind of thing, which has actually been technologically possible for a long time. People act like the internet of things is a new idea, but its as old as the internet itself. Many of these IoT things have been possible for a long time and do not require cutting edge technology, but people are already choosing not to buy them.


I am not sure you actually know what IoT is. Robotic vacuum cleaners and lawnmowers are not IoT devices. They are self-contained robotic devices which need little or no connection with the outside world at all to operate. Yes you can add a connection to your smartphone to switch them on and off, but once again this is hardly cutting edge - its a fancy switch. I do see some growth in 'smart home' technologies but mostly I see it as just what you say there - people using their phone as a remote control. Nothing revolutionary, and not really machine to machine communication which is what IoT really is, just a fancy switch.

I hope so...yes Ive been scammed a few times with ICO's but I still prefer them for the purposes of speculation. All Alt coins are gambling...I think 

No. Read again, that'sthe forecast for the next few years. Can you think of any other time in mankind where wealth impact went up 15% in a few years? This effect is cumulative, go forward 10-15-30 years and you should start to get the picture.

According to the report CfB linked earlier it will not bring wealth "unseen in the history of mankind", it will (according to industry hype at least) bring "impact" of $3.9 trillion to $11.1 trillion which is something like 3%-15% of world GDP. A lot of that will be totally boring but still economically important "impacts" like better automating supply chains. You're overdosing on kool aid.

I think he is not kidding. If you hope to see utopian future you'd better place "dys" in front of it, this way you'll increase chances for hope realization.  

I have been in the 'futurology' community for a decade and have given deep thought to all these issues that you mention. I highly suggest the book 'Superintelligence' by seminal thinker Nick Boström for everyone. His work over the last decades paved the way for taking these things seriously, which in the last year has made people such as Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Stephen Hawking etc. 'warn' about AI. And this is a good thing, SuperAI is no joke. I highly suggest reading the work by Eliezer Yudkowsky on 'Friendly AI' to get a deeper perspective on the pioneering work in this field.

Same goes for IoT, if society makes the wrong decisions it can lead to more joblessness, on the other hand if society embraces it and makes good decisions, it will lead to an utopian world where money is essentially eradicated through an overwhelming abundance. Read 'zero marginal cost society' by Jeremy Rifkin or 'Abundance'/'BOLD' by Peter Diamandis for an overall view of this.

Of course reality is never black/white there will be nuances. But in general most people will benefit greatly from technology. Because that is what we're discussing here. All these terms are just that, terms, it's semantics, at the end of the day IoT, AI/Machine Learning/Neural networks etc. is just technological progression.

Let me ask you this, did the wheels of the bicycle or subsequent car 'dehumanize' people?
Just because things become more autonomous and efficient doesn't mean that humans are unable to make decisions, on the contrary you'll be able to make decisions based on what you wish rather than what you HAVE to do. This is always the result of technological progress. Are there ways this can be abused? Of course. As automation becomes more efficient a lot of human manual labour will become superfluous and so the owners of companies will probably choose to fire these people and replace them with automation. But this is a political question, not a technological one. One solution to this is basic income, others believe that further radical decentralizaton and distribution will lead to a kind of equilibrium. But this discussion is for another topic. IOTA is a neutral technology.


So don't buy a fridge that is smarter than you. It's really that simple. It's a choice. When the internet started going mainstream there was A LOT of similar complaints along the line of: "I don't want to be online all the time", "I don't want the entire world in my livingroom" etc. etc. So don't. It's your choice. Personally I am looking forward to the day where as much of the mundane tasks and chore can be automated so that I can spend my time doing productive things or things that I find rewarding instead.

Look at the ongoing IoT-robotics-smarthome 'revolution' where more and more people acquire automatic vacuum cleaners and lawnmowers, this saves people several hours each week and enable them to always live in a clean home. But nothing is forcing this on you. It's entirely your own choice. Just because your fridge orders food for you when you're out, doesn't mean that it has somehow made you its slave.

Let's push this even further. What you're describing here is very similar to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUc_3CZHzAM

Watch it from 19:00 forward. Either this is the best sci-fi movie you will watch/hear today or it's the worst horror movie.

keywords: iot, technocracy, dictatorship, transhumanism, data collection, surveillance, artificial intelligence...

You're a bunch of smart guys here. Has this woman gone completely off the rails? Is she unrealistic? Is she making wrong conclusions because she's not tech-literate enough? Is she lying?

Anyways, I just did a little search and I see that some of what she says has grounds:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRAIN_Initiative

http://www.zdnet.com/article/raytheon-riot-defense-spying-is-coming-to-social-networks/

http://neurosky.com/

...


Also, some of you Iot pushers are towing the line that everything will be peachy. Are you sure you're not building the ultimate prison?


Turning living cells into computers? Sounds great!