Topic: IOTA - Unmoderated thread - page 12. (Read 70768 times)

Any proof I would give you, you could claim is not good enough or not a real proof. You challenge me to an impossible task.

What is proof? What is knowledge? And you want me to "give the proof to you".

What if I tell you the claim of other poster "wait for bitcoin tx to be confirmed in hours" requires scientific hard proof? And in fact waiting for bitcoin tx to be confirmed would take hours or even days - despite even Satoshi and all cryptonerds developing, thinking for years, since 2009 - 2012, and they still didnt produce such a proof and a defense against it? But we all know its true. Bitcoin Tx were reliable and confirmed in minutes 2009-2013, are now are unreliable in practice today, in 2017, despite all the cryptography proofs and science and mathematics of 2011.

Im telling you how it is.

If IOTA is as good as you think it is, the all mighty glorious wise visionary of galactic intelligence founders, should be able to show you a link to the whitepaper page saying "This is the proof that a DAG with PoW  and IoT works together and is wonderful, fulfilling these criteria".

In fact, they should be able to link to a FAQ or forum post, if I am asking so ridiculously simple questions.

But they dont. Because they are not super-human, they are simple minds who made mistakes or willingly make them to earn cash.

DAG and PoW together do not mix, PoW and IoT are oxymoron.

that's because you sound obsessed! your arguments are factually wrong. so I ask for proof. everyone sees that you don't deliver. not just assumptions, your opinion or a good guess, I'm talking about solid evidence, scientific proof.
Just proof it and everything is fine. that's not too much to ask!?

See you are the only IOTA person who speaks like a normal person, and not hostility threats, condescending, appealing-to-authority, ridiculing and avoidance of difficult questions.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Now back to topic, you see why I claim IOTA doesnt work - because for a very simple question which even you can answer, the leadership acted very very hostile, so they have something to hide, and digging deeper I found issues all over the place, so even if your IoT but-not-quite-yet-asic-on-chip device can do IOTA transactions those transactions can be double spent - my questions above still remain.

marked as a noisy annoying clown who's not able to proof his arguments. + a coward. you really went far in life man. congratz

I'm saying that my IoT device can sign IOTA transactions, and can receive IOTA transactions, and can use the whole API.
And you're saying that by doing so, it doesn't use any features of IOTA. That doesn't make sense to me.


Look, I didn't see a IOTA fanboy claiming that Byteball doesn't work per se. But when you claim that IOTA is a scam, the IOTA supporters have a problem with that, which is kind of a natural reaction no?

Sorry for your monetary loss.

all I read is "mimimimimi"
bring proof. I read the whitepaper and know how IOTA works, you are wrong about it.
all those words are worthless unless you proof anything. since I know you cannot proof it, this will be a funny conversation.
up till now, you are not more than a clown screaming bullshit on a marketplace to be able to buy low and push byteball. although everyone already knows that they are no competitors.

You are laughable.

You cant just say "youre wrong", Uh oh OKAY that is such a strong argument.

Unless you have invested your money in this shitcoin and is now afraid of loosing it.

Because you couldnt use your brain to realize that Proof-of-Work when done by a small chip powered by batteries and GPUs are not in the same ballpark and together with a DAG cannot protect against double-spending.

There is no global consensus in IOTA.

But please, continue drinking the juice of super inflated-egos and "FinTech" experts, PhDs and other authorities, as that maybe gets you off. Your financial troubles and wishes for fortune may be solved by mere reading of these words, THE NEXT BIG THING IoT Internet Of Things, Enterprise DAG Tryte TANGLE Economy of SCALE MASSIVE. JINN MACHINE. Quantum Safe home made crypto!

damn you really love to lie. lets talk with real names and look how far you wanna go without your anonymity.
your accusations are beyond wrong. they are malicious and unjustified, just because you are interested in trading. it's easy as that.
if you have scientific proof, proof it, dog. and for fucks sake be a man and use your real name everything else is cowardice.

this thread starts to remind me of the first NXT days after the ICO.. huge success imminent 

Maidsafe is ranking NO.8 on coinmarketcap.com, people enjoy trading profit from daily trading. But what does IOTA offer to people? No exchange, only fake OTC trading to fool noobs.

1 word

vaporware

same as maidsafe

ROFL look at the censorship in IOTA thread 

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17695985

These answers of mine to them, are not allowed even to be linked from the thread.

Can someone else please go there and paste the link to this thread?

Let it be known. IOTA is a failed project from the start. Sell your iotatokens before its too late, before Dominik and CfB take your money!

Not quite, but the idea is the same. except the tangle milestones are centralized and supposed to be temporary.

The third DAG coin which does the anchor-to-blockchain is SPECTRE.

Why IOTA is still no any exchange? I remember theu said they were ready to list it on exchanges half year ago, but now still nothing, is it a joke?

I'm not a super-techie so I might be wrong, but isn't that exactly what IOTA does with its tangle snapshots?

No, you dont want to understand my argument. Try again. Ill explain more.

Your IoT device is not per se using IOTA/Bitcoin or relying on any of its features. So talking about confirmations is irrelevant. You can send thousands of bitcoin tx to your full node from your thousands of IoT devices, queue them up, save them in your own temporary database, settle them between each other to reduce their amount, or bag them in a huge transaction, using your full node wallet. This is in bitcoin parlance called "off-chain" bullshit. The devices dont need to wait for confirmations. They're dumb. Your full node pays the fee and waits for confirmation.

Your proposed solution is not a better solution than anything which already exists. In fact its worse if you include the ASIC on chip, just uselessly increasing IoT-device cost.

In general. My critique of IOTA goes further.

Id say, You cannot have a cryptocurrency which is using both a DAG and tries to rely on Proof-of-Work to prevent spammers/Sybils. The disparity in computing power, PoW, allows the DAG to grow wider and allows powerful nodes to scam/double-spend less powerful nodes. Unless you combine your DAG with a blockchain, and "settle"/anchor it in a blockchain every set amount of time. Or you disallow anyone joining your network and try to enforce "consensus" by peering and "trust" between neighbors in real life.

Or you invent a Mainline, a Main Chain, within the myriad branches in a DAG, select one which is "official", to do that you need a set of trusted nodes to stamp/witness transactions seen. Then you have Byteball.

Cheers, Ill pour one out for you next time Im out and about.

Sure, so let's take bitcoin as an example. How many tps are possible again on the bitcoin network? 7tps, which is far too low for the IoT.
And how about tx fees? Average is around 20 cents in bitcoin, which is far too high for IoT.

So yes, you can sign a bitcoin transaction on an IoT device, then you pay 20 cents, then you wait several hours until it's cofirmed.

LOL, they finally answered the questions I have above, for weeks they tried to avoid it.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17694242

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17694256

Which just confirms, IOTA is not for IoT devices.

1. CfB lies. PoW in IoT is not 20% less than normal CPU, an IoT device for example has 80Mhz 32bit CPU. Desktop 2400Mhz 64bit, It is not even close to 1% of same power. If you have 20% computing power of a normal CPU, thats not an IoT device, thats a raspberry-pi a singleboard computer suitable for showing 4K videos, the power they draws is not economical to have thousands of them scattered as sensors or controllers.

The other guys solution, let the IoT device "sign" transaction and send it to full node. This can be done with bitcoin and any other coin even today. The IoT device is not using IOTA anymore than an IoT device is a web-browser like Firefox just because someone programs it to make a HTTPS request and parse the response - which can be done on 80Mhz 32bit IoT devices, Ive done it. Any coin can do this.

The other solution is almost good, to make ASICS/special-hardware to do PoW for IOTA. Its just the problem, that hardware has a cost, and integrating it with any IoT chips. So, the "zero fee" transactions of IOTA, is not actually zero-fee, it just moves the cost to running and powering the ASIC, developing and integrating it with a myriad of other chips. That cost is too high, when alternatives which dont require modifying or using new hardware exist.

Point 2, No Sybil-defense. Not addressed, its inherit in its nature that IoT device cannot compete with computing power of a bigger CPU. Hence its beyond useless to even develop ASICs for it, if you have a small form-factor low energy ASIC, they can still be attacked by more making more of them, more powerful ones.

IOTA doesnt have any mechanism to resolve these kind of simple attacks, it doesnt have a consensus mechanism to avoid the gap in power between IoT and desktop PC being exploited.

Similary, IOTA is always vulnerable to "DoS because the network is small", even if used only on PCs, anyone can invest in a few powerful ASICS, and double-spend on IOTA network. This wont require 50% more power than others, since its a DAG, its enough if you are more powerful than your neighbors, to censor their transactions or just double-spend.

IOTA has a design/idea flaw - Proof-of-Work. Cannot be applied in IoT space.

Byteball doesnt have Proof-of-Work. Even todays IoT chip without imaginary extra iota-ASIC, just talk to your own bitcoin node, is more suitable and cheaper, faster, elegant simpler solution than IOTA.

 

IOTA requires Proof-of-Work to make and send transactions.

IoT devices are really very low-cpu power, low-energy devices. Most of the time they are in deep sleep, wake up take sensors, send them somewhere. And IOTA people think wasting 90minutes off CPU time and battery to generate a transaction is sane?

90 minutes is how long it takes for a really powerful IoT device which almost borders Raspberry-Pi level, to make and send a transaction.

For a desktop PC, it can do it in 5-10 minutes. For really powerful computers, less than a minute.

IoT devices are not protected in any way from spamming and other attacks, they are just uselessly wasting their battery and wasting CPU cycles on a "proof-of-work".

Thats what IOTA is. Its beyond dumb.

Apart from the above, Iota doesnt even have a trustless network - all nodes are required to peer by talking to humans since IOTA network fails because it doesnt have a consensus algorithm, if anybody is allowed to join. The developers decide what is a valid transaction and what isnt, with their milestone.

IOTA is a classic "pump-and-dump" scam altcoin, from the same people who previously did that and have experience fooling others.