Topic: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings - page 161. (Read 658701 times)

The "bet" here is as much in BEOBEE as it is in bitcoin, if someone thinks NEOBEE is going to fail because bitcoin price will drop to zero, just stay away from bitcoin at all...

Thanks for the answer!
I agree with what you say, it is the short term steep price drop gamble that makes this investment risky (probably no one will accuse NEOBEE if BTC goes to zero).

But because it will be short term the agenda of NeoBee convinced me that the risk will be tolerated/handled properly.

I guess we will found out soon!

If I read you correctly, you're simply saying the venture has risk. Is that all? I don't think anyone will say there aren't risks.

The question is: How realistic is the situation you're concerned about and is it reasonable to expect this to happen? If you're simply saying 'well, it could happen!' I'm not going to disagree with you - it most certainly could. But so could a slew of other things that would doom it to failure. A meteor could hit the Med and drown Cyprus, but I don't think anyone is wildly concerned about that because it isn't reasonable to expect.

I understand the past has held some significant fluctuations in bitcoin price. There will likely be some in the future. From the sounds of it, Neo would have to be fantastically unlucky to open it's door right on the edge of a 50+% down turn in bitcoin price. Once again, feel free to disagree with that if you please, but I'll argue that the liklihood of such an event occurring is lower than the contrary. If you disagree, give justification. Simply saying it could happen doesn't help - we all know it could.

Here's a reply..... is this the one I missed?

I agree Bitcoin does not perform like any traditional asset and in the long-term it'll either be worth a lot of money or nothing at all, in fact I think it's a pretty binary outcome.

However my issue with this particular 'bank' is that irrespective of the likelihood of it going up through time history has proven that it has that capability of massively falling in value in short periods and it will likely do so again at some points, since it is not 'backed' by anything (metals, governments, taxes, countries or soldiers being the common methods).

I merely wish to discuss what happens to the 'bank' with all it's pegged deposits at that point and the answer is that it quickly becomes insolvent (unless some undeclared potential blackbox trading saves it etc)..........

He is ok in my eyes - his criticism more than welcome and definitely not a trol.
But he didn't respond to my criticism up-thread.

This needs to be given some solid respect, especially around these parts. All too often we hear such lofty promises and projections that usually go woefully unfulfilled.

The fact he's unwilling to follow this pattern bodes very well for his credibility.

Would it be possible to get an update on the transfer of shares?

What ex-trader is bringing to the table is at least intelligible criticism compared to everyone else. Leave him alone.

Why do you possibly think I'm 20-something? I'm mid 40s actually and retired from full-time employment a few years back.

The other profile is not me (though clearly they happen to agree with me), perhaps someone on here can check somehow - I have no need to create fake accounts. Some people will be happy to disagree with me and that's just fine, I always enjoy debate and contrary opinions, the world would be a dull place if we all agreed!

However, my points have only been answered as follows:

How do you cover the risks, given I have proved you'll go bust in some scenarios = 'we have a secret strategy for trading'.

How will you make profits if BTC doesn't keep going up= 'we'll charge for money transmission and insurance, even though we haven't really covered either in the plan and insurance has nothing to do with BTC so where do we have an edge or value-add?'

Completely agree with that. Also from my contacts in Cyprus this description is correct, people as shifting from "old and good" to we need something "new and better". Ofcourse a good PR campaign is needed to associate NEOBEE with the "new and better". To that end you (NEOBEE) have already got some press and also have a solid PR plan containing the biggest TV/Radio Stations, newspapers, seminars etc. So thumbs up from me .     

Had to read it because it was quoted.

Again. ex-trader is either too narrowminded or simply too stupid to understand any of this. He sounds like a broken record for pages now.

There is no point in discussing with such people. Especially after he claimed he has 25 years of trading experience, though he is only 20 something years old.

And creating the cocoxixi account matched the profile of an unsecessfull FUD-spreader perfectly.....

@mutex, very good summary, thank you.


cryptocyprus has been talking about this for some time now, and in time it may even become more flexible with the improvements of the Bitcoin protocol. It is also possible for Neo to lend its authority to a yet another off-jurisdiction party in a time of crisis, by moving the money to different 2-of-3 addresses, thereby removing the efficacy of all sorts of local coercion.

The prospectus talks about accounting audits, but it would further reinforce trust to have a technical audit of this system by a well known community member.

Not entirely reliable on the price of Bitcoin rising in price, we do know that we will be increasing demand and reducing the supply at the same time, however we are also developing alternate revenue streams based on additional services that we shall offer at the time of launch. To provide projected figures on these without solid decisions having been made is something that I just will not do, as someone with a financial background you will understand the vast amount of variables when considering an insurance carrier, this is also totally ignoring the fact that we are also entering into the International Remittance space too.

I have noticed (for the last 3 years here) that many 'traditional' traders say the same things over and over again. They are correct in short window timeframes but they miss the point entirely long term.

Bitcoin is not a traditional asset - when it was 0.0001$ last time? Sorry, I forget!

Different scenario entirely. AM were mining and paying dividends (a quasi-real business) and I thought they were about to jump in price, so I bought as a short-term speculation. They jumped in price very quickly in about 2 months, so I sold out. Haven't touched their shares for months and watched them subsequently fall.

I have no criticism of the transparency of Neo/Bee, but what they precisely don't have is a sustainable business model as it relies on Bitcoin growing continuously.

After reading the prospectus and this whole thread, here is how I understand this whole enterprise.

Euro-pegged accounts obviously imply an exchange rate at which bitcoins will be pegged to euros. This rate will be set by Neo.

Let's say Neo exchange is the only way to get bitcoins into euro-pegged accounts. Then controlling their internal BTCEUR rate and keeping it above the market Neo can remain solvent. They'll be essentially keeping their bitcoins in a closed loop, which their clients can exit either at a loss, by getting bitcoins worth less then deposited euros if sold at market price; or at par in euro terms, by redeeming bitcoins through Neo.

They could do the same with any commodity or some kind of their own tokens, physical or digital. Say, euro-pegged gold or silver accounts.

But bitcoins are better in a number of way.

First, clients can be sure that Neo actually holds their bitcoins, as all accounts will be visible on the blockchain, thus providing trustless 100% reserve which is not possible in conventional banking.

Second, bitcoins are hard to confiscate. Although Neo didn't say much about that third legal entity which will be keeping signatures (1 out of 3) for signing client transations, if that entity is out of Cyprus (or better yet, out of EU) jurisdiction, it can't be coerced to give up those signatures. Thus Cyprus gov would have to somehow coerce both Neo and each of their customers to give up their individual bitcoins. Which, I imagine, is harder than blocking bank accounts through central bank. It would be much easier to coerce Neo to give up their EUR reserves.

Third, bitcoins are easy (and cheap) to transfer and store, not unlike gold or cash. Considering theft/robbery is becoming a problem in Cyprus, that's a marketing advantage right there.


Now, obviously, keeping Neo's BTCEUR rate too high above market is not good for business. This is where their secret trading-hedging strategy comes into play. (I downloaded Neo's trading spreadsheet but could not figure it out, I have zero financial expertise.) They will have a reserve of bitcoins and euros to smooth out day-to-day BTCEUR fluctuations. If the worst comes to worst, and trading reserve is depleted, Neo can fix their internal exchange rate and stop further losses.

So, yeah, as I see it, it is sort of a bet on rising price of bitcoin. But the fact that Neo can still remain solvent in the worst case scenario will attract customers, which will drive the price of bitcoin up. So, in the end, it is more than just a bet.

I do know that TAT is working on these transfers, he will be better placed to provide an update. I will speak with him later today, to push for an update in here.

May I know when is the shares going to transfer on bitfunder? I already sent transfer info 5 days ago.

I missed this part yesterday, yes the Cypriot people are conservative, as myself and you both know (having had/still live in Cyprus) that they have always operated under the terms of "old is good". Now that is changing, especially when you talk about the following percentages 6.9%, 47.5% & 100% then pose the question to them "is old still good?" the answers are somewhat different these days.

Many of the early questions posed were born out of misconceptions as to the way we are going to be operating. We have brought certain aspects of our plans forward to ensure that we can provide earlier clarification as to the platforms that we will have available to us for trading our own reserves.