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Topic: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings - page 33. (Read 658777 times)

sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
This went WAY off-topic.

off-topic? You really want to hear very "pain in the ass" question which connects this whole discussion about unregulated securities traded on unregulated markets ... with NEOBEE? I don't want to be that guy ... so I stay quiet this time Lips sealed

What are you doing on a Bitcoin forum dude? Most things here are "unregulated". Why don't you go regulate yourself back to the nanny socialist state, which is nothing but "regulated" legalized theft by a bunch of kleptocratic parasites.

Why not preach some agorism for a change instead of statist BS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism

I don't think you understand.

Whether or not you or anyone else wants the SEC interference doesn't matter because it is happening. No longer is bitcoin considered play money and it has now become too large to slip under the radar.

Scammers are realizing that the bitcoin securities market is a goldmine for idiots to scam and the SEC knows this and are finally doing something.

Hiding behind bitcoin as your currency of choice doesn't make all existing security laws void.

It's about the attitude not about what's happening. Of course thieves will want a share of the pie and thus look to regulate/steal/monopolize. They don't like theft derived profits going down.

"regulation" never stopped scamming, it just pushed it to a more a exclusive club. Enron anyone? Regulation by very definition is scamming if done by government because it involves hiring people with stolen tax funds based on a "social contract" no one signed.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
This went WAY off-topic.

off-topic? You really want to hear very "pain in the ass" question which connects this whole discussion about unregulated securities traded on unregulated markets ... with NEOBEE? I don't want to be that guy ... so I stay quiet this time Lips sealed

What are you doing on a Bitcoin forum dude? Most things here are "unregulated". Why don't you go regulate yourself back to the nanny socialist state, which is nothing but "regulated" legalized theft by a bunch of kleptocratic parasites.

Why not preach some agorism for a change instead of statist BS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism

I don't think you understand.

Whether or not you or anyone else wants the SEC interference doesn't matter because it is happening. No longer is bitcoin considered play money and it has now become too large to slip under the radar.

Scammers are realizing that the bitcoin securities market is a goldmine for idiots to scam and the SEC knows this and are finally doing something.

Hiding behind bitcoin as your currency of choice doesn't make all existing security laws void.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
This went WAY off-topic.

off-topic? You really want to hear very "pain in the ass" question which connects this whole discussion about unregulated securities traded on unregulated markets ... with NEOBEE? I don't want to be that guy ... so I stay quiet this time Lips sealed

What are you doing on a Bitcoin forum dude? Most things here are "unregulated". Why don't you go regulate yourself back to the nanny socialist state, which is nothing but "regulated" legalized theft by a bunch of kleptocratic parasites.

Why not preach some agorism for a change instead of statist BS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
This went WAY off-topic.

off-topic? You really want to hear very "pain in the ass" question which connects this whole discussion about unregulated securities traded on unregulated markets ... with NEOBEE? I don't want to be that guy ... so I stay quiet this time Lips sealed
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
This went WAY off-topic.
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
Can you point us to the appropriate Romanian law which declares these securities illegal?

Yes, page 11...

/served.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
IIIIII====II====IIIIII
Can you point us to the appropriate Romanian law which declares these securities illegal?

Yes, page 11 of this Romanian National Securities Commission (CNVM) document:
http://www.cnvmr.ro/pdf/regulamente/en/Regulation-01-2006.pdf



'TITLE II - OPERATIONS WITH SECURITIES
CHAPTER I – COMMON PROVISIONS ON THE PUBLIC OFFER
Law no.297/2004

 Art. 3. No prospectus/document of public offer shall be made available to the public until it
has been approved by CNVM.'



and also see on page 12:


'Art. 5. (1) Following the CNVM approval, the prospectus/offer document shall be
communicated to the operator of the regulated market/alternative trading system where those
securities are traded
or shall be admitted to trading at the date of the public offer
announcement publication, both on paper and electronically.'



So any online Securities market 'alternative trading system' is clearly covered and must seek approval. Unless MPEx has gained CNVM approval it is as an alternative market illegal under Romanian law as are the Securities it offers for sale.
And for clarity anyone interested should also refer to this document:



http://www.cnvmr.ro/pdf/regulamente/en/Regulation-02-2006.pdf

REGULATION NO. 2/2006
 
ON REGULATED MARKETS AND ALTERNATIVE TRADING SYSTEMS


page 34

Section 1 – Approval of alternative trading systems’ setting up
 
Art. 61
(1) It is forbidden for the intermediaries and the market operators to manage an alternative trading
system before requesting and obtaining C.N.V.M.`s approval for setting up the relevant alternative
trading system.








sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250

It involves trading illegal unregistered securities on an unregistered exchange.


Things are legal until they are declared illegal, NOT the other way around.

Can you point us to the appropriate Romanian law which declares these securities illegal?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Sorry if this is somewhat off-topic, but MP just published an email exchange he had with some SEC toadie who came enquiring after his MPEx customer records, specifically pertaining to Satoshi Dice.

Seems to provide confirmation of what many have suspected... that US SEC is coming after bitcoin securities.

http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/

And his reply was spot on. As much as I dislike MP/MPEx, he's absolutely right here. Much like the comedy email exchange between the RIAA and the Pirate Bay 6-7 years back, this is a case of a US agency believing they have automatic worldwide jurisdiction.

Insisting on IRC/email was also smart - keep everything recorded in black & white, not 'lost' on some phone call.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
^The MMORPG is a taunt, no different from "Phone?  Let's #IRC!" That's why
... Much respect for Mircea, but watching how this whole thing plays out before throwing palm branches at his feet.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
...
Mpex is a pyramid scheme because it rewards "investors" 10btc for each new "investor" they recruit to pay 30btc registration fees.

MPEX is not being investigated, Eric is.  MPEX is your obsession, not the SEC's.  Frankly getting a bit tiresome.

Yes I should not have included that bit as it seems to have added confusion.

From what we know mpex is being contacted during an investigation of erik voorhees, an american citizen, likely for operating an illegal unregistered stock.

As we know btct.co and bitfunder were slammed by the SEC and many bitcoin securities have been investigated.

It is quite clear that, contrary to MPs belief, the SEC does not need an declaration from congress stating that the SEC has the right to investigate mmorpgs, wow gold, or even bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1000
...
Mpex is a pyramid scheme because it rewards "investors" 10btc for each new "investor" they recruit to pay 30btc registration fees.

MPEX is not being investigated, Eric is.  MPEX is your obsession, not the SEC's.  Frankly getting a bit tiresome.

I agree. Weexchange/Bitfunder/Ukyo is more than enough to be dealing with, right now.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
...
Mpex is a pyramid scheme because it rewards "investors" 10btc for each new "investor" they recruit to pay 30btc registration fees.

MPEX is not being investigated, Eric is.  MPEX is your obsession, not the SEC's.  Frankly getting a bit tiresome.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10


What do all this have to do with NEOBEE?
I mean, did I miss something important?

SK

Well, NEOBEE is a bitcoin security and if MP's email exchange is to be believed, it hints that US SEC is out for blood in regards to bitcoin securities. Even those traded on exchanges not domiciled in the US.

So as Walter Sobchak would say: "This affects all of us man!"
+1 on usefulness.
Thanks for the clarification Choroid. NEOBEE has handled this type of staff successfully in the past though, plus now they have there own security management thing. Nevertheless, as you said, this affects all of as!   

hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
...
It involves trading illegal unregistered securities on an unregistered exchange.
...

As opposed to Havelock, an esteemed Panamanian shell co trading unregistered securities...

Panama is not under SEC jurisdiction and havelock isn't a pyramid scheme

http://www.sec.gov/about/offices/oia/oia_cooparrangements.shtml

Lol, Rumania is under SEC jurisdiction?  And which part of Eric's biz do you consider to be a pyramid scheme?

*Meanwhile, beack in the real world, 400 ATMs being installed in Dubai:  https://twitter.com/uniqbiun/status/445891638359887873/photo/1

Romania is listed under the SEC coop agreement and Erik is an american citizen.

And I was not talking about satoshidice when I said a pyramid scheme.

Mpex is a pyramid scheme because it rewards "investors" 10btc for each new "investor" they recruit to pay 30btc registration fees.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509


What do all this have to do with NEOBEE?
I mean, did I miss something important?

SK

Well, NEOBEE is a bitcoin security and if MP's email exchange is to be believed, it hints that US SEC is out for blood in regards to bitcoin securities. Even those traded on exchanges not domiciled in the US.

So as Walter Sobchak would say: "This affects all of us man!"

It is becoming quite obvious that the feds do not consider bitcoins play money anymore.

Quote
What do all this have to do with NEOBEE? I mean, did I miss something important?

Has nothing to do with neo. I doubt the SEC will come close to neo since it seems they have the cypriot gov on their side.

Anyways a more related thread from the OP of those emails calling neobee a scam. It is quite the laugh:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/calling-out-the-premier-scam-on-havelock-at-the-moment-516460
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
...
It involves trading illegal unregistered securities on an unregistered exchange.
...

As opposed to Havelock, an esteemed Panamanian shell co trading unregistered securities...

Panama is not under SEC jurisdiction and havelock isn't a pyramid scheme

http://www.sec.gov/about/offices/oia/oia_cooparrangements.shtml

Lol, Rumania is under SEC jurisdiction?  And which part of Eric's biz do you consider to be a pyramid scheme?

*Meanwhile, back in the real world, 400 ATMs being installed in Dubai:  https://twitter.com/uniqbiun/status/445891638359887873/photo/1
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0


What do all this have to do with NEOBEE?
I mean, did I miss something important?

SK

Well, NEOBEE is a bitcoin security and if MP's email exchange is to be believed, it hints that US SEC is out for blood in regards to bitcoin securities. Even those traded on exchanges not domiciled in the US.

So as Walter Sobchak would say: "This affects all of us man!"
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
...
It involves trading illegal unregistered securities on an unregistered exchange.
...

As opposed to Havelock, an esteemed Panamanian shell co trading unregistered securities...

Panama is not under SEC jurisdiction and havelock isn't a pyramid scheme

http://www.sec.gov/about/offices/oia/oia_cooparrangements.shtml
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
maybe its because *speculation here*  SatoshiDice was acquired and used for mass money laundering scheme for some big guys, which are under investigation, evoorhees is under investigation  thanks to that too ... i didn't see any advertisement or something about SatoshiDice after the change of ownership... its like > anonymous flow of money into casino = anonymous flow of money into bitcoin securities, because of that I was asking here few months ago, what is the legal declaration of neobee shares and if its everything legal... of course i didn't get an answer from competent people, what exactly are shareholders holding.

EDIT : reading that emails ... MPOE nailed it

Yeah, he fucking nailed it alright.

As to what SEC is really after here, I been thinking about that too.

Perhaps as you suggest there's some money-laundering tie-in here with bitcoins flowing through Satoshi Dice. That seems reasonably plausible, but then again seems like there'd be better ways of mixing coins that don't leave taint.

It also occurred to me, especially with the focus on SDice, that they might be more concerned with the gambling aspect than they are with the fact that there's securities out there not under their dominion.

But either of these reasons was the case, why would SEC be taking the lead on this, as opposed to some other three-letter-agency? Money laundering and online gambling seem to be outside SEC's bailiwick... not that US federal agencies aren't a confusing jumbled stampede of jackals.

It's pretty obvious why mpex/satoshi dice is being investigated by the SEC.

It involves trading illegal unregistered securities on an unregistered exchange.

An exchange which is set up to be a pyramid schemes by earning 10btc per person you recruit to pay 30btc registration fees.

That is all in addition to being a ponzi where the only stock traded on mpex is their own and all profits are derived from new investors.

I am not sure how people are congratulating him for that excuse of a defense.  Clearly underestimating the power/reaches of the SEC.

What do all this have to do with NEOBEE?
I mean, did I miss something important?

SK
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