Is bitcoin transaction fees fair? - page 64.

pixie85

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Quote from: The One on April 27, 2017, 04:14:11 PM

Quote from: Sundark on April 27, 2017, 03:32:17 PM

Quote from: The One on April 27, 2017, 12:33:06 PM

Avoid and no longer usable until fees come down. Having money that no longer useable is madness.

Today I transferred 0.1 BTC. My best fee calculated by my wallet was exactly (at time of sending transaction) $0.82.
Obviously I don't care about outputs and this sort of stuff, normal bitcoin users don't like to see what is under the hood.
Do you think that sending $136 with $0.82 fee is high?

That would depend on what i am doing with 0.1 BTC. If i was buying a product and it is $5 cheaper than the competitions, then $0.82 is ok.

Would it mean that bitcoin transactions are good only for big purchases? Paying almost $1 for a transaction of $100 or more doesn't look bad, but paying $1 for a coffee worth $2 is a ripoff. Even bigger transactions like $10 are not worth it if the fee takes 10%. If we want Bitcoin to be our savings, an electronic gold, it's all fine, but if we want to use it daily the fees must be lowered.

bartolo

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Quote from: eaLiTy on April 27, 2017, 03:15:36 PM

Quote from: hankyulpark on April 27, 2017, 10:36:40 AM

The transactions fees are a way to incentivize the miners to continue processing transactions after the end of the block reward. It also serves to control the network demand, as the transactions that have the higher fees are completed first. This will, in the future, make small transactions economically inviable.

Take the case now ,you wont be able to send micro transactions through bitcoin and some would argue that it was not designed to send smaller amounts but with the price of bitcoin rising you must consider the fact that we might see a time when there will be time when bitcoin transaction requires more fees than the conventional way of sending.Even when you are gambling the higher transaction fees and the slow confirmation rate has made some issues for traders as well.

I think they will find a solution for this because micropayments are necessary and it is good for bitcoin that can be used for these micropayments. Surely the solution will be the implementation of Lightning Network for this type of operations.

The One

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Quote from: Sundark on April 27, 2017, 03:32:17 PM

Quote from: The One on April 27, 2017, 12:33:06 PM

Avoid and no longer usable until fees come down. Having money that no longer useable is madness.

Today I transferred 0.1 BTC. My best fee calculated by my wallet was exactly (at time of sending transaction) $0.82.
Obviously I don't care about outputs and this sort of stuff, normal bitcoin users don't like to see what is under the hood.
Do you think that sending $136 with $0.82 fee is high?

That would depend on what i am doing with 0.1 BTC. If i was buying a product and it is $5 cheaper than the competitions, then $0.82 is ok.

HEISENBURGG

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A resounding no. They are not .

That's why I want to buy BTCFees.com and dev or get someone to dev a website about this whole issue.

Maybe could set the site up and create some sort of voting platform built on the blockchain where you could only vote once and that could be verified .

So we can sort out the whole btc fees mess once and for all.

Sundark

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Quote from: The One on April 27, 2017, 12:33:06 PM

Avoid and no longer usable until fees come down. Having money that no longer useable is madness.

Today I transferred 0.1 BTC. My best fee calculated by my wallet was exactly (at time of sending transaction) $0.82.
Obviously I don't care about outputs and this sort of stuff, normal bitcoin users don't like to see what is under the hood.
Do you think that sending $136 with $0.82 fee is high?

eaLiTy

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Have Fun )@@( Stay Safe

Quote from: hankyulpark on April 27, 2017, 10:36:40 AM

The transactions fees are a way to incentivize the miners to continue processing transactions after the end of the block reward. It also serves to control the network demand, as the transactions that have the higher fees are completed first. This will, in the future, make small transactions economically inviable.

Take the case now ,you wont be able to send micro transactions through bitcoin and some would argue that it was not designed to send smaller amounts but with the price of bitcoin rising you must consider the fact that we might see a time when there will be time when bitcoin transaction requires more fees than the conventional way of sending.Even when you are gambling the higher transaction fees and the slow confirmation rate has made some issues for traders as well.

The One

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Quote from: Wei H on April 27, 2017, 10:10:22 AM

The transaction is much higher than other payment methods, I made a 0.3B transaction(containing a lot small/old transaction) and it required 0.005B as recommended fee, it's more expensive than traditional transfer systems. In this situation the Bitcoin is really bad and people would avoid to use Bitcoin. Why would I pay this high fee for a small amount transaction?

Avoid and no longer usable until fees come down. Having money that no longer useable is madness.

The One

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Quote from: xypos on April 27, 2017, 09:39:37 AM

I dont see any reasons why we should consider bitcoin transaction fees as unfair, after all the miners have to get some kind of a reward for confirming all these transactions that go through blockchain, right?
The increase of the amount of money payed for the commision that goes to miners is not because of them, it happens just because there are more and more people using the blockchain network.
It makes a huge traffic, which is why there are more and more transactions too: so the reward needs to go higher, if you want to see your transaction going straight to the address you sent it quickly, then you need to pay a higher fee.

Why would anyone confirm your transactions for free? that costs something, and the fee is that payment. It is not so high...

It isn't free as miner will get subsidy of 12.5 BTC per block. This covers miner costs. tx fee is to replace subsidy in the future. Any fees now is a bonus.

The One

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Quote from: 1Referee on April 27, 2017, 08:16:11 AM

Quote from: Anjing Lu on April 27, 2017, 07:10:03 AM

I think it's very fair bitcoin transactions cost, compared to other conventional payment system such as paypal or bank transfer, the transaction costs very small bitcoin is nothing more than 1/10.

It depends on the sort of usage. If you transact from your PayPal balance, you won't be charged any fees when you're buying stuff, sending money to friends, family, etc. In that regard, it's free and instant. Regarding bank transfer, it depends to where you send your money to. It doesn't cost me single cent to send money from my bank, to any bank within Europe (SEPA zone). In my case, if I want to transfer money from my bank to a bank outside Europe, the costs will be significant, ranging from €5-€25 depending on factors as the conversion fee, total amount of the transaction, internal bank costs from the other side, etc.

Precisely the point. Bitcoin was designed to transmit anywhere in the world for little cost. My fiat transfer is free and the idea of sending BTC and paying a huge fee defeats the purpose of Bitcoin itself. When one used a debit/credit card, the retailers has to pay a small fee every time. Hence some retailers only allow cards if one spends more that £5, for example. Using Bitcoin allows retailers to reduce their costs, offer slightly lower price. Bitcoin user paying a small fee will benefit overall from reduced prices. However the current high fees are useless and no even necessary. Fees to replace block POW subsidy isn't needed now but in about 20 years. By then BTC price will be high enough to cover miners cost of operations.

bamboylee

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Quote from: paul gatt on April 27, 2017, 07:23:57 AM

The charge rate of bitcoin transactions has been defaulted, it will always be within that range and will not be changed. So, as bitcoin prices soar, that means we have to pay a higher fee. However, the amount of btc we pay does not change. So, there is not anything worth complaining about it.

This is not true. I used to pay 60sat/byte and it gets confirmed within 10 minutes. But now, I am paying 100 sat/byte and I get confirmed after 24 hours. The fee is ridiculously high and since the price of bitcoin is high also, the fee in dollars is not justifiable.

maku

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Quote from: lottery248 on April 27, 2017, 07:19:07 AM

Quote from: Fibbage on April 27, 2017, 01:35:46 AM

Hey, I'm not complaining. Yeah, it's getting higher, but I feel it's suitable.

for miners to maintain their mining operation, +1. however, if the transaction time is more than 10~20 blocks before one confirmation after you have sent with a recommended fee, the fee is often unsuitable.

Miners don't need tx fees. They still have hefty block mining reward - which is backbone of theirs profits.
We need to be aware than in the past tx fees were lower and price was lower as well.
It is quite ironic that in times when bitcoin price reached another ATH we have also the highest fees in the history.

hankyulpark

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The transactions fees are a way to incentivize the miners to continue processing transactions after the end of the block reward. It also serves to control the network demand, as the transactions that have the higher fees are completed first. This will, in the future, make small transactions economically inviable.

Reid

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There are certain transactions that are way too low.
Maybe they would better save that for a higher amount to be sent. If they just keep on sending a lower amount then there would be traffic in the transaction processes.
For my own opinion I agree with the recent increase of transaction fees , it could help to prevent what happened before where it took days for us to receive our funds.

jovs

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Quote from: shield132 on April 26, 2017, 02:58:00 AM

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

There is really no problem in regards to the fees in transaction because we all know that bitcoin is not legal meaning to say that the government does not have the power to manipulate bitcoin in any aspect especially on transaction. So we all have the opportunity to earn more for it no tax implemented on it. So I guess that thing that developer used to develop bitcoin or what others called fee is just fair and square at the first place.

Wei H

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Chinese translator

The transaction is much higher than other payment methods, I made a 0.3B transaction(containing a lot small/old transaction) and it required 0.005B as recommended fee, it's more expensive than traditional transfer systems. In this situation the Bitcoin is really bad and people would avoid to use Bitcoin. Why would I pay this high fee for a small amount transaction?

xypos

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I dont see any reasons why we should consider bitcoin transaction fees as unfair, after all the miners have to get some kind of a reward for confirming all these transactions that go through blockchain, right?
The increase of the amount of money payed for the commision that goes to miners is not because of them, it happens just because there are more and more people using the blockchain network.
It makes a huge traffic, which is why there are more and more transactions too: so the reward needs to go higher, if you want to see your transaction going straight to the address you sent it quickly, then you need to pay a higher fee.

Why would anyone confirm your transactions for free? that costs something, and the fee is that payment. It is not so high...

sergio red

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For me, it really depends on the price of bitcoin. when we would find a low price then we would have paid low fees, on the other hand when we would find high price then we would have spent a bit more fees for the transaction. it's a natural process. but if would be a certain amount of fees then we would have faced two kinds of problems, mainly while low price then we would face a crisis of money.

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: sobsitesearch on April 27, 2017, 04:49:34 AM

Quote from: Antonio G. on April 27, 2017, 03:56:14 AM

All the Bitcoin users dream about incredibly fast transactions and low fees, but unfortunately, we can choose only one option. So, we probably need to put up

The transaction fee is depending on the current price of bitcoin i think, before the value of bitcoin is very low there is a small fee and most of the time its free, but now at the current price and the free is increasing i think it is fair.
And also there is an option vary on the fast, mid and slow transaction it depends on the user which one they choose.

Not entirely.
Bitcoin could be at 10k , if there would be only 10 transactions an hour the fee would still be counted in satoshis.

But even at this price of 1000/coin if the usage would increase 2-3 time we would end up paying a few $ every time.

Quote from: 27QVUTZj8rgZP1 on April 27, 2017, 07:37:46 AM

I believe bitcoin's fee is really a problem that will just become worse, because it feels like it won't go down.

Imagine at next halving... Fee would decrease? I do not believe so, I believe bitcoin's price will double, fee will stay the same or go UP (and in bitcoin).

As reading other's posts, I see there are plenty of wealthy people here willing to do that. And soon we will pay more than paypal, payza just to get a transaction done in less than 3 hours.

If that happens, which I believe is highly possible... Then I would see little to no reason to use bitcoin.

My bank is doing internal transactions between account instantly for free.
And this for a fee of 1 euro / month.

Adding the SEPA transfers for Europe, bitcoin is going to have a hard time competing.

1Referee

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Quote from: Anjing Lu on April 27, 2017, 07:10:03 AM

I think it's very fair bitcoin transactions cost, compared to other conventional payment system such as paypal or bank transfer, the transaction costs very small bitcoin is nothing more than 1/10.

It depends on the sort of usage. If you transact from your PayPal balance, you won't be charged any fees when you're buying stuff, sending money to friends, family, etc. In that regard, it's free and instant. Regarding bank transfer, it depends to where you send your money to. It doesn't cost me single cent to send money from my bank, to any bank within Europe (SEPA zone). In my case, if I want to transfer money from my bank to a bank outside Europe, the costs will be significant, ranging from €5-€25 depending on factors as the conversion fee, total amount of the transaction, internal bank costs from the other side, etc.

sasaku bitbit

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Quote from: the rise on April 26, 2017, 07:23:29 AM

Quote from: gribble on April 26, 2017, 07:11:27 AM

Well I think bitcoin transaction fees because of the block size of bitcoin and it is problem of bitcoin
i don't think it is about fair or not of bitcoin transaction fees,
it is fact of bitcoin transaction fees must be paid by users of bitcoin, as comunity of bitcoin we must find
the solution for this problem the expensive of fees transaction.

On the other hand, transaction fee is the most important reward if bitcoin mining period is up, so I think there is no harm if we pay them whatever we want, I also have examined that no matter how bitcoin transaction fees, everything will be processed to avoid flooding that will cause the pending transaction. So this is not a matter of fair or not, but there is no definite rule about how ideally the actual nominal fee.

perhaps to avoid banjirnya which causes the pending transaction, if we pay whatever we want in addition bitcoin in each period should there be a definite rule for a nominal fee to the actual in transaction costs. or I expect the lack of transaction costs

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